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View Full Version : James Harrison :My response to comments on the lockout



jpele
03-21-2011, 10:03 PM
This is for those who posted comments on my latest post from NFLLockout.com.

I am not trying to disrespect anyone, or hurt anyoneís feelings but as is my style, Iím going to keep it 100% real with all you fans. You deserve to know the truth and Iím grateful for all the support you give me so Iím going to give you that truth.

The NFL is first and foremost a $9.3 billion business. The players are employees, just as Greyhound is business and the bus drivers are the employees. Iím lucky enough to love my job, but I still want to be paid the fair market value for my services, as the bus driver would want to be paid the fair market value for his.

I understand that some players make a lot of money, myself included. Most players donít. Understand that it isnít the player that sets his value. Just as it is not the bus driver that sets HIS value. Thatís simply capitalism.

Just because the value of a football playerís job is not the same as the value of bus driverís job doesnít mean the rights of the two workers should be any different. The actual dollar amount any worker makes is irrelevant when the issue at stake is fair market value compensation for WHATEVER job you have. Unions were formed during the Industrial Revolution to protect the workers and to ensure they get the value of their services and most importantly, safe working conditions. Why is this now supposed to be different for football players? One person could make 45k a year and another person make 200 million a year. Either workerís right to receive the fair market value for his services and safe working conditions shouldnít diminish with the increase of salary.

If you are a bus driver and all of a sudden the owners say ďHey Joe....by the way....we are cutting your pay 20% across the board and you have to work not 8 but 12 hours a day because the bus company owners are just not making enough money. Sorry about that.Ē Then the bus driverís union asks to see the ownerís books to prove that the company isnít making enough money. Especially when everything you see and read shows you that the owners are making more money than they ever have. The bus company owner says ďI donít think so. Just take the pay cut and shut up.Ē Would you tell that bus driver that he should just suck it up? Somehow I donít think so. So the argument seems to be that just because A FEW players make a ton of money over the course of their career, ALL of the players should just suck it up and take the pay cut. WITH NO JUSTIFICATION. NONE.

Those that say ďJust stop watching and in 5 years they will get new players and everything will be goodĒ. Itís actually a good idea in theory but in the big picture it doesnít WORK. First of all, players know that this game is bigger than what people are writing about. There are coaches, stadium workers, concession employees, security people and all kinds of other economic impact issues related to football. A lockout hurts those people a lot and nobody is talking about that. .

I am not looking for sympathy for myself or for players. The veteran players and players who do make the high salaries are trying to look out for not only our own interests, but the interests of those players that make less than we do, look out for the interests of the up and coming players and any future players, and look out for the interests of retired players, and also look out for the interests of the game we love.


What I suggest be done is very simple. Owners....open your books. If you are not making money, we will gladly take a percentage cut. If you arenít willing to show us your books, to me that means you canít prove you arenít making any money...so whatís the justification for a lockout of players and everyone else that works and supports football?

Rampage
03-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Apparently, Harrison is a much better writer than he is a speaker.

:dunno:

BlitzburghRockCity
03-22-2011, 01:03 PM
Apparently, Harrison is a much better writer than he is a speaker.

:dunno:


:lol:


He makes a lot of valid points though and from what I've seen the owners have yet to give a valid reason why they can't open up the financial records in question. I can understand them not wanting to divulge all their finances to the public but at the same time if they want to cut salaries then there has be a justification as to why.

SteelDad
03-22-2011, 05:27 PM
Harrison's piece is excellent on 2 levels.

1. It lays out the situation perfectly whereby anyone can easily understand just what the players are asking for and what their concerns are.

2. It plainly illustrates that at the end of the day, salaries aside, these guys may in fact be a small minority in this country in terms of their chosen profession, but you cannot deny their right to a fair contract any more than you can a bus driver or electrician.

andyg1984
03-22-2011, 05:46 PM
i dont like the analogy because if you disagree with your earnings you start looking for a different job .. that is where the "fair market value" he speaks of is determined ..

also, most people dont have to ask to look at financials .. in most cases it is public information ..

HUNT4SEVEN
03-22-2011, 06:15 PM
What I suggest be done is very simple. Owners....open your books. If you are not making money, we will gladly take a percentage cut. If you aren’t willing to show us your books, to me that means you can’t prove you aren’t making any money...so what’s the justification for a lockout of players and everyone else that works and supports football? Clap, Clap ,Clap thank u James for having the balls to tell it like it really is...


2. It plainly illustrates that at the end of the day, salaries aside, these guys may in fact be a small minority in this country in terms of their chosen profession, but you cannot deny their right to a fair contract any more than you can a bus driver or electrician. You can't make it plainer than this statement right here, this is america right?

SteelDad
03-22-2011, 08:39 PM
i dont like the analogy because if you disagree with your earnings you start looking for a different job .. that is where the "fair market value" he speaks of is determined ..

also, most people dont have to ask to look at financials .. in most cases it is public information ..

I see your point, but without the power of the union in this particular case, the owners could pretty much throw whatever books and numbers they wanted to out there and the players would just have to take them at their word... Secondly, the reason this situation is so unique is because unlike many other occupations in the country, these guys can't find work in this profession anywhere else and please don't tell me Arena or UFL.:lol:

andyg1984
03-22-2011, 09:08 PM
I see your point, but without the power of the union in this particular case, the owners could pretty much throw whatever books and numbers they wanted to out there and the players would just have to take them at their word... Secondly, the reason this situation is so unique is because unlike many other occupations in the country, these guys can't find work in this profession anywhere else and please don't tell me Arena or UFL.:lol:

if your saying these guys cant find work anywhere else why use an analogy of someone who can (a bus driver) to make your point? he talks about fair-market value but if your boss is not willing to pay it that to me sounds like it is sort of inconsistent with the very concept itself ..


about the money ... so we agree that most people have access to public financial information .. but there are others who dont simply because that is "the way it is" ..ex- small business .. an employee has no right to that information .. so i just dont understand who he is appealing to ..

igor0190
03-22-2011, 10:22 PM
i dont like the analogy because if you disagree with your earnings you start looking for a different job .. that is where the "fair market value" he speaks of is determined ..

also, most people dont have to ask to look at financials .. in most cases it is public information ..

The NFL is the only football league which players get paid like they do. So, no... They CANNOT just go and look for another job. The NFL has a monopoly over professional football and although it is not the NFL's or players fault this is how it is. Monopolies NEED 3rd party regulation and are subject to different rules than the average career.

If you were an Electrician and a huge company buys every single electrical company in the USA, you really don't have the ability to look for another job in your field, now do you?

Now say the new electrical company says that we're going to cut all salaries by 15%. How the heck would every electrician that worked for this company feel?

andyg1984
03-22-2011, 11:56 PM
i guess i am not being clear... i am just saying i disagree with the specific analogy because it does not appeal to people who operate under a different set of rules .. not really addressing the labor mobility or the morals .. just the analogy ..

Deviouz1
03-23-2011, 11:12 AM
ok, correct me if im wrong here but unless im mistaken the VAST majority of NFL players are drafted out of college right? this in and of itself says that these players are typically equipped to enter the workforce as some sort of skilled professional, correct? considering this, they have the option to sign the contract to make AT A MINIMUM 250k a year for their first year of play, even if they are nothing but a 3rd string punter, OR decline to sign the contract and, like many other individuals, enter the workforce in the field that they studied for. add to that that most of the draftees went to school on a scholalship so they enter the workforce without having to pay off upwards of 20k in student loans.

what other job starts you out at 100k+ a year? the military is more dangerous and pays nowhere near that kind of money. accountants, doctors and lawyers could conceivable make that but it takes an incredible amount of schooling and intelligence to do that. pro sports players have a unique opportunity to play a -->GAME<-- for a living and get paid an incredible amount of money to do so.

they have no sympathy from me. especially since the league seems to want to start playing two hand touch thus removing the danger aspect.

now granted the owners are greedy bitches. no arguments there and yes they deserve to have someone pee in their wheaties, i just dont think it should be some other greedy bitch that does it.

Steelersfan
03-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Just to :stirpot:............

Why is it a right for a worker to get "Fair Market Value" but nobody ever mentions the right of the owners to also?




The NFL is the only football league which players get paid like they do. So, no... They CANNOT just go and look for another job. The NFL has a monopoly over professional football and although it is not the NFL's or players fault this is how it is. Monopolies NEED 3rd party regulation and are subject to different rules than the average career.

If you were an Electrician and a huge company buys every single electrical company in the USA, you really don't have the ability to look for another job in your field, now do you?

Now say the new electrical company says that we're going to cut all salaries by 15%. How the heck would every electrician that worked for this company feel?

To say these players can't find other jobs playing football is wrong. They just can't find other jobs playing football that pays them what they get paid. There are other leagues available to them.
Also, your electrician analogy doesn't work. They have the choice to start their own company if they don't want to work for someone else. Come to think of it, the players (heck, all of us!) have that same option as well.

LarryNJ
03-23-2011, 11:50 AM
You're right James didn't write that! :)

I have always and still believe that everything coming from the owners and the players is just a smoke screen. It has nothing to do with opening books, different schedules, practices ect. I believe the biggest thing the owners are worried about is all the lawsuits from retired players for workmen comp claims, especially head injuries. That's the reason they are making all the crazy changes including fines and suspensions. When the ex players slap a huge class action lawsuit on them they have to show how they as owners have tried to protect the players. If the owners can somehow protect themselves from future liabilities the other issues will be solved quickly.

nuclearchihuahuas
03-23-2011, 12:01 PM
You're right James didn't write that! :)

I have always and still believe that everything coming from the owners and the players is just a smoke screen. It has nothing to do with opening books, different schedules, practices ect. I believe the biggest thing the owners are worried about is all the lawsuits from retired players for workmen comp claims, especially head injuries. That's the reason they are making all the crazy changes including fines and suspensions. When the ex players slap a huge class action lawsuit on them they have to show how they as owners have tried to protect the players. If the owners can somehow protect themselves from future liabilities the other issues will be solved quickly.

Wholeheartedly agree! :plus1:

bensshoes
03-23-2011, 01:55 PM
:lol:


He makes a lot of valid points though and from what I've seen the owners have yet to give a valid reason why they can't open up the financial records in question. I can understand them not wanting to divulge all their finances to the public but at the same time if they want to cut salaries then there has be a justification as to why.

while i totally agree with the players what the owners aren't saying is their revenue stream is shrinking and that sets the value of their franchize so while they are making profits they will see the value of their franchises begin to lessen.

Zachintosh66
03-23-2011, 02:05 PM
no way JH wrote this... his lawyer prolly... JH isn't that smart, seriously. This is the same guy that didnt know which other Steeler great LB went to Kent also. On sundays they just slap him a
in the head and say, "Debo, kill the guy with the ball!" Then he grunts and runs onto the field...

Zachintosh66
03-23-2011, 02:08 PM
Just to :stirpot:............

Why is it a right for a worker to get "Fair Market Value" but nobody ever mentions the right of the owners to also?

b/c they are already making well over FMV

Steelersfan
03-23-2011, 02:22 PM
Says who? You? FMV can change all the time and depends a lot on where you live. Just as an example, a doctor in Boston makes more than one in some small town. Cost of living is a major reason as well as revenue for each hospital.


b/c they are already making well over FMV



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SteelDad
03-23-2011, 03:22 PM
We have to be careful in assuming that because these guys went to college that they are therefore capable of running out and finding other work regardless of the pay. Unfortunately, the only data I could find is dated 2004 which says that only 46% of NFL players have their college degrees. At the end of the day, does this really mean anything considering the money they make? No, but per the argument, they can't just 'find other work in this profession.'

The other thing we must consider is that there is only a small percentage of guys in the league who have incomes outside of their playing contracts. Whereas the vast majority of owners have numerous other buisness ventures that can supplement them for a period of time during the lockout. The players don't have this luxury.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-23-2011, 03:32 PM
I take the players side more then the owners but really if both sides are so stupid to not get a deal done then so be it and I hope the NFL crumbles.......

Steelersfan
03-23-2011, 03:43 PM
They can find other work in football. There are other leagues available, coaching, training, etc. No it wont be what they get payed but they have plenty of options.
They also could have just as easily invested the money they have made to supplement their income.

Its not the owners fault they are succesful businessmen and they shouldn't have to supplement anything to players because if that.

The players are the ones who get free education, endorsements and millions in salary. They are also the ones who either stay in school to get their degree or take the money and run. Bottom line is it isn't the owners fault if players don't invest the millions they earn wisely.


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LarryNJ
03-23-2011, 03:45 PM
Says who? You? FMV can change all the time and depends a lot on where you live. Just as an example, a doctor in Boston makes more than one in some small town. Cost of living is a major reason as well as revenue for each hospital.

HAHA..so Brady should make more than Rodgers and he does!

Steelersfan
03-23-2011, 04:28 PM
The example I use doesn't really work with nfl players because of revenue sharing. Thats more performance based unless you are a 1st round pick.......lol

It was just an example that many things contribute to fmv.


HAHA..so Brady should make more than Rodgers and he does!



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LarryNJ
03-23-2011, 04:47 PM
No worries! :)

Callax
03-26-2011, 03:56 AM
I easily side with the players for several reasons:
Billionaires (owners) are arguing with millionaires (players)
If the owners cannot ( will not ) open their books to justify their request for players' pay cut, at nearly 20%, is substanial!!
Less pay and more games and no justification???

GREEDY OWNERS!!! ****ING UP A GOOD THING

steelers4life66
03-26-2011, 02:03 PM
Apparently, Harrison is a much better writer than he is a speaker.

:dunno:

:lol: The entire time I was reading this... I was thinking James didn't write this.

Steelersfan
03-26-2011, 06:46 PM
I easily side with the players for several reasons:
Billionaires (owners) are arguing with millionaires (players)
If the owners cannot ( will not ) open their books to justify their request for players' pay cut, at nearly 20%, is substanial!!
Less pay and more games and no justification???

GREEDY OWNERS!!! ****ING UP A GOOD THING

You can say what you want. I just have one question.

Why doesn't Manning share his $13 million in endorsements he got last year with the other players?

The owners are expected to "share" all the revenue that comes in (while footing all costs of running franchise) but the players aren't? I suppose next it will be "Well, Manning earned that!" Well, so did the owners by being good business people.

I'm not on one side or the other but I'm sick and tired of people thinking it's just one side at fault here. You want fair? Then all endorsement money players get goes in the pool too.

jnes1216
03-26-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't think the owners want to open up their financial records because they fear the information will get leaked to the public. What uproar would that cause when ticket prices are increased, vendor stands, etc. These owners are businessmen/women who got that way by doing things smartly. Opening your books for scrutiny by your employees hardly seems smart. I am not on the owners side I'm just saying why all of a sudden is this a demand by the players. Do they have to show the owners their bank statements?

igor0190
03-27-2011, 02:50 PM
There are very few players who ever get any endorsement money...

Ever since the owners opted out of the CBA extension option (2 years ago) the players have been asking the owners to open their books.

Consider this... The NFL has a large impact on the American economy. When this goes to the courts, you don't think there is going to be massive political pressures on the Federal judges to sort this out and make something happen??? I believe there will be football in September for this reason. The courts will force the books from the owners and arrive at the fairest conclusion for both sides. The players will come out ahead in this based on the last CBA and the fact the owners are making healthy profits.

Steelersfan
03-27-2011, 05:47 PM
P. Manning 13 mil
T. Brady 10 mil
E. Manning 7 mil
Big Ben 2.5 mil

Just some I found.

You may be right. The players could win. What I see is this.....
2 years ago the economy crashed and the owners opted out of the cba to protect their investments. The price of everything went up so I would be surprised if the owners are making the huge profits everyone thinks they are but I could be wrong.

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igor0190
03-27-2011, 08:34 PM
P. Manning 13 mil
T. Brady 10 mil
E. Manning 7 mil
Big Ben 2.5 mil
Just some I found.


All likely "the highest profile" players on their respective teams. Considering there are 53 players on a gameday roster and 22 starters, how many actually see anything close to this? VERY few I am sure.

I am sure they're making healthy profits but probably not as large as many would assume. Only way to solve this is to have a 3rd party audit and break down the books. Anything else won't be sufficient because the owners probably write off everything from their toothpaste to their vacations in Fiji as a "Team" business expense.

Steelersfan
03-27-2011, 10:14 PM
I agree only a small % get deals like that but still, its a lot of dough. Id they want to share it all they should do just that.

Also, not quite sure what writing off taxes has to do with anything. We all do it every chance we get.

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igor0190
03-27-2011, 10:36 PM
Also, not quite sure what writing off taxes has to do with anything. We all do it every chance we get.


They were talking about the owners showing the books and how the players wouldn't be interested in just the total numbers because of all the "non football" expenses that would be included.

PLayers want to see a 3rd party audit on the books to prove the owners revenues are decreasing.... Which the owners want no part of.