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Three Four
02-09-2011, 08:10 PM
As much as I love Dick Lebeau, I have to put the blame on him for the poor secondary. The secondary has been a weak spot for the steelers ever since LeBeau has been coordinator. His priorities have always been don't give up big plays and stop the run. The trouble is that the NFL is emerging as a pass oriented league. The top NFL teams are pass teams, Indy, Patriots, Packers, Chargers, Jets, Ravens etc. So why are we still trying to stop the run? Let's try to stop the pass. I really don't care if we give up an extra 30 yards a game on the ground if we can knock off 100 yards off the pass.

Teams know that they can't run against us. They don't even try anymore. They focus their attention on where they can pass. Gay and McFadden. You know what? It works.
The Steelers can bring in Champ Bailey, Revis, and the Steelers will still have a mediorce secondary because the schemes are not there. The philosophy is not there. That is what has to change more than just the players. Perhaps with a new secondary coach the steelers can bring in someone a little more aggressive who can influence Lebeau to let the secondary cover their receivers rather than cover for the big play.

steelersbabex25
02-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Just..no. Stop.

Three Four
02-09-2011, 08:15 PM
please tell me why the Steelers secondary has sucked for the past 10 years?

steelersbabex25
02-09-2011, 08:26 PM
Not because of Dick LeBeau, I can tell you that.

SnakeEyes43
02-09-2011, 08:28 PM
It's not Lebeau's fault when we only have on CB that is starter material in the NFL. Swagger T and Troy P are the only solid players in the secondary. Gay is average at Nickel (a great blitzer), and McFadden seemed off this year. Clark seems scared of the big hits anymore (fines and penalties?) and that was all he was ever good for really....he's pretty bad in coverage.

jpele
02-09-2011, 08:33 PM
There were 11 teams with better pass coverage than the Steelers ,one of them being Green Bay none of the other 10 were in the Super Bowl.

Which means there were 20 teams with worse secondaries, I have no complaints about where we stand.

I'll agree we need to upgrade the secondary but you have to look at the overall picture.
Our biggest problem in the playoffs and SB were the fact that Troy was unable to play his normal game due to the injury to McFadden.

Three Four
02-09-2011, 08:44 PM
It's not Lebeau's fault when we only have on CB that is starter material in the NFL. Swagger T and Troy P are the only solid players in the secondary. Gay is average at Nickel (a great blitzer), and McFadden seemed off this year. Clark seems scared of the big hits anymore (fines and penalties?) and that was all he was ever good for really....he's pretty bad in coverage.

Clark is one of the best tacklers on the team. The secondary is taught run first, than pass. Perhaps they need to think pass first than run.

SnakeEyes43
02-09-2011, 08:53 PM
Clark is one of the best tacklers on the team. The secondary is taught run first, than pass. Perhaps they need to think pass first than run.

Clark should worry about coverage first...he's a FREE SAFETY. No one should get past him, traditionally that's the free safeties #1 priority. I know Clark plays a little differently since we have Troy, and I like Clark's style, but you can't really say that he is good in coverage anymore. He gets burnt a lot, but some Steeler fans forget that because twice a game he delivers a big hit or something.

Scorp
02-09-2011, 09:03 PM
The blame game is not going to change anything. Steelers win and lose as a team.

franchise3
02-09-2011, 09:30 PM
3-4, I actually agree with some of your points but am confused how you say that teams know to attack Gay - McFadden but then you say that Bailey and Revis wouldn't help us because of the mentality. It seems a bit contradictory.

Both Clark and McFadden are great tacklers but bad in coverage. Taylor is the other way around. Our first 4 draft picks this year have to have 2 defensive backs if you ask me.

SteelerDave74
02-09-2011, 09:51 PM
As much as I love Dick Lebeau, I have to put the blame on him for the poor secondary. The secondary has been a weak spot for the steelers ever since LeBeau has been coordinator. His priorities have always been don't give up big plays and stop the run. The trouble is that the NFL is emerging as a pass oriented league. The top NFL teams are pass teams, Indy, Patriots, Packers, Chargers, Jets, Ravens etc. So why are we still trying to stop the run? Let's try to stop the pass. I really don't care if we give up an extra 30 yards a game on the ground if we can knock off 100 yards off the pass.

Teams know that they can't run against us. They don't even try anymore. They focus their attention on where they can pass. Gay and McFadden. You know what? It works.
The Steelers can bring in Champ Bailey, Revis, and the Steelers will still have a mediorce secondary because the schemes are not there. The philosophy is not there. That is what has to change more than just the players. Perhaps with a new secondary coach the steelers can bring in someone a little more aggressive who can influence Lebeau to let the secondary cover their receivers rather than cover for the big play.

You've got to be f"g kidding me? This is not a Steeler Fan.

beaver688
02-09-2011, 10:04 PM
You know I have been hanging around here on this site for alot of years don't say to much but you guys make me sick you complain about every thing, give it a break we lost cause we lost they played better than we did ---the end already its nobodys fault.

steeldoc
02-09-2011, 10:08 PM
It's not Lebeaus fault...he just coaches the players, he doesn't pick the players.

Big T
02-09-2011, 10:09 PM
I would say that Dick LeBeau shoulders a lot of the blame for constantly putting the defense in man coverage when Green Bay spread them out. We do not have the corners or safeties that are capable of playing man coverage on a 4-wide spread. Especially on GBs 4 wideouts. LeBeau shouldve started to realize that.

To LeBeau's credit though, they were getting pressure, Rodgers just knows how to get the ball out quickly.

Real Deal Steel
02-09-2011, 11:07 PM
It's time for our management to do things a little bit different.

Go after and secure Ashumonga from the Raiders. And him to the mix opposite Taylor and then we have a decent secondary.

The league is a monster passing league now and the idea that Rex Ryan has with all the CB's the Jets have is the future of the game.

pimplydan
02-10-2011, 12:27 AM
We are one corner away from having a real steel curtain .Just imaging a Rod Woodson or a Mel blount back there .
Now tell me what kind of a defense do we have ?????????

Case closed !

Three Four
02-10-2011, 06:28 AM
The mentality of the steelers is to play "stop the run" instead of stop the pass.

SteelDad
02-10-2011, 08:41 AM
And so it goes... The constant spreading of the blame. Look, our secondary has struggled going back to SB XLIII when we got torched by Warner in the 2nd half. It opened up a lot of eyes as to how to beat the Steelers. You could even go back further to the Rich Gannon-era Raiders who came into the 'burgh and threw at will against us. Bottom line is that LeBeau coaches with the hand he is dealt. Ike is a 'good' corner, but not elite while the other corner job has been held down with a some elmer's and a band-aid. We shouldn't bitch too much because we could always go back to the days of Dwayne 'Toast' Washington.

A Pac
02-10-2011, 11:56 AM
Wow. Just wow. How much does LeBeau have to do with drafting and FA acquisitions? Until he decides what personnel is on the team it isn't his fault. The guy is a HOF corner and probably the best DC ever. I think that if he had CB talent, he would use it to the best of his ability. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-10-2011, 12:19 PM
Lebeau is not to blame, if anything you cast blame on the front office for not addressing this situation in previous years. Lebeau's defense is built a certain way and it's certainly been effective his entire career. I'm sure he wanted DB's brought in every year but he can't control what the front off does.

You don't blame an assistant coach when he doesn't have the right players.

Stop the blame game, it's pointless. We lost, it's over, and sooner or later the front office will get us some quality CB's.

UKSTEELER
02-10-2011, 12:19 PM
Our problem is, . . we're far too slow to develop and bring players through.

It's well known that Dick has his favourites, Clark/BMac . . .

meanwhile players like Lewis and Butler have to spend years twiddling their thumbs . .

We still don't know if Lewis is going to be any good, we can only assume that he isn't going to be good enough, and if for instance BMac and Butler battle it out in camp to start opposite Ike and there is nothing between them, I bet BMac still gets the start.

Even Tomlin has admitted he doesn't care for rookies, Pouncey is a very rare example in our case.

Believe it or not Co-ordinators do have a say on the draft, we obviously thought that Bmac would be good enough, as oppose to either blooding Leiws or bringing in a high draft pick last year, . . we know how that worked out?

Meanwhile Devin McCourtey, not a heralded pick by any means went to the pro bowl in his first year with the Patriots, if we'd have drafted him, if we'd for instance missed out on Mo prior to our pick, he wouldn't have played at all, he'd have rotted the bench!

There is the problem. :rant2: IMHO

BlitzburghRockCity
02-10-2011, 12:20 PM
You know I have been hanging around here on this site for alot of years don't say to much but you guys make me sick you complain about every thing, give it a break we lost cause we lost they played better than we did ---the end already its nobodys fault.

As you can see most of us don't agree. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

steelchamp204
02-10-2011, 03:35 PM
Ok so when we are still playing 10 yards off the receiver when they are scorching us on deep slants and reg slants, thats not on DL? you press up on the receivers. If your on this board and didnt say "why are we not pressing up on the receivers?" Im calling bs

steelersbabex25
02-10-2011, 03:40 PM
Ok so when we are still playing 10 yards off the receiver when they are scorching us on deep slants and reg slants, thats not on DL? you press up on the receivers. If your on this board and didnt say "why are we not pressing up on the receivers?" Im calling bs

You think DL is telling the secondary to give the receivers 10 yards of cushion? Please. That's on the players on the secondary not being able to run the routes with receivers and constantly losing them, not on Dick Lebeau.

NHStlrfan
02-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Gotta wonder what would have been if Aaron Smith stayed healthy. Yeah he's not a DB but the pressure wasn't as evident this year. Woodley didn't get to the QB because Ziggy was getting experience. It is what it is. Keisle out some too and all at the worst possible times. Add on the Troy injury and well, you get what you get. Coverage is always better when the QB is on his back. ;)

steelersbabex25
02-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Gotta wonder what would have been if Aaron Smith stayed healthy. Yeah he's not a DB but the pressure wasn't as evident this year. Woodley didn't get to the QB because Ziggy was getting experience. It is what it is. Keisle out some too and all at the worst possible times. Add on the Troy injury and well, you get what you get. Coverage is always better when the QB is on his back. ;)

Smith would have made a huge difference. I'd say that teams would like to double team probably every player on our front 7, maybe with the exception of Farrior, Hampton and Timmons (just because Timmons is so underrated among everyone). If Smith was playing, it would be one more double team and one taken away from Woodley or Harrison.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Ok so when we are still playing 10 yards off the receiver when they are scorching us on deep slants and reg slants, thats not on DL? you press up on the receivers. If your on this board and didnt say "why are we not pressing up on the receivers?" Im calling bs

If we had corners that could cover then this wouldn't be an issue. Lebeau's defense has always been about not giving up the big play, keeping everything in front of you. You need good corners that can hang with WR's until the pressure gets there. That's why a zone blitz defense is so predicated on the pass rush and stopping the run. If you disrupt the timing then you throw off the offense, and you do that with the pass rush.

If your rush doesn't get there you are exposed. Now yes I'd like to see them play more more bump and run, which they have done this year but overall it is what it is.

wyomingsteelerfan
02-10-2011, 10:29 PM
Corners have been a problem for a while now. we seem to fall into prevent defense with a lead........think about it for a second, we had the ball with 2 minutes to go right where we wanted and needed to be in this game. A few more catches and we win by 1 pt team sport We still have six and are much closer to 7 than anybody else all is good as long as we make the right decisions in camp. stack the players deep and make them compete hard for the position. Like Brown and samuels :cope::imho:

steelersbabex25
02-10-2011, 10:30 PM
Okay this discussion is really too much.

B Mac + Gay + Clark + Madison = REASON FOR BAD SECONDARY.

Case closed. Call me Nancy Drew.

cmerrifield
02-10-2011, 10:38 PM
Okay this discussion is really too much.

B Mac + Gay + Clark + Madison = REASON FOR BAD SECONDARY.

Case closed. Call me Nancy Drew.


I agree with Nancy Drew :yesnod:
However I will say that Harrison getting fined I think slowed his pass rush and he went in coverage more. I think that added to the problem. Any of those guys can cover for 2 or 3 seconds, but when Harrison and/or Woodley go in coverage, they needed to cover for more than 3 seconds and they just cant.

Real Deal Steel
02-10-2011, 11:23 PM
When the corners are constantly giving 10 yard cushions, that is definitely on Lebeau. Sorry.

But if we upgraded or CB's, we wouldn't be playing that scary cat "10 yard cushion" coverage.

steelersbabex25
02-10-2011, 11:28 PM
When the corners are constantly giving 10 yard cushions, that is definitely on Lebeau. Sorry.

But if we upgraded or CB's, we wouldn't be playing that scary cat "10 yard cushion" coverage.

If the corners could stick with the WRs DL wouldn't be playing to not give up the big gain.

Scorp
02-10-2011, 11:50 PM
Does anyone here think DL is losing his touch?

cmerrifield
02-11-2011, 09:57 AM
I dont think he has lost his touch, it seems he just lost his aggressiveness this year. We have DB's, with the exception of Ike, who can only cover for 2 or 3 seconds. So when we stop getting aggressive, our secondary is bad. I am not sure if its the fines, or Tomlin's view that the standard is the standard, so our DB's just have to cover, or what. But we were most successful against 3 and 4 receiver sets in the nickel and blitzing. Again, 2 or 3 seconds. Now in the SB, Capers modeled his Defense after DL, so the Packers knew what to expect. I think that gave them an advantage picking up blitzes. In some ways, DL needs to revinvent himself and his strategy for 2011 if he returns.

Rampage
02-11-2011, 12:22 PM
Does anyone here think DL is losing his touch?

I'm not sure. I think it could be more of a combination of lesser talent playing corner, injuries/age, and perhaps some degradation of his ability to scheme a defense that surprises opposing offenses. If this team could get another cover corner, I think he would be able to do a little more jamming at the line which would get this team into better shape.

coldrolled
02-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Falcons find this guy... We need to stock pile these guys.. are we dropping the ball?

Priest (5-10, 181) was a four-year starter at TCU, totaling 108 tackles and 4 interceptions. A three-time All-Mountain West Conference honoree, including first-team in 2009, Priest injured his foot during bowl practices and was not selected in the 2010 NFL Draft.

Priest tried out for the New Orleans Saints after last year's draft, but was not signed to a contract.