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steelers4life66
01-17-2011, 12:00 PM
:cope: DAMN RIGHT!:cope:


What's the difference between these two QBs? Well, the obvious answer is one has hair extensions and one doesn't. One is married to a supermodel, and the other isn't. One has three Super Bowl rings and the other only two (for now).
Those are all fine and dandy, but today's Jets-Patriots game showed the most important difference between Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. When one of them is pressured, he throws the ball away or falls to the ground, while the other one moves around and makes things happen allowing his team to win.
I don't know if it is only since his knee injury or if I just never noticed it before, but Tom Brady is a different QB when you knock him around a little. After getting sacked and hit by the Jets a few times, it was obvious Brady was throwing the ball away early, or worse, going down early.
This is a stark contrast to Ben Roethlisberger, who stands back there, shakes off defenders like mosquitoes and creates plays on the fly.
He may be the MVP this year, but I don't care. If you take away his great coach and offensive line, Tom Brady can't hold a candle to Big Ben.
Yes, Brady is a classic drop-back passer, but he is a statue. Hit him a few times and you mess with his whole game. Ben is at his best when he is flushed from the pocket. That is when he improvises and he is most dangerous.



Some call it street ball, some call it worse. But playing behind a patchwork line that wasn't that great to begin with, Ben takes his team on his shoulders and makes it happen week in and week out, year in and year out. In spite of this, he is not mentioned when listing the elite QBs in this league.
If I were building a team around a QB, which one would I take? It's not even close. If I had a great offensive line and the rest of the team was set and I needed someone to stand back there and throw, Brady would do. But if you want to build your team around a leader who makes it happen, Ben is the man.
He has brought the Steelers to the AFC Championship Game in four of his seven years in the league. He has the highest winning percentage of any QB in playoff history. If the Steelers win this year, he will have as many rings as Brady, and he already has more than Manning.
Yet Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and, yes, Tom Brady are considered the elites. It is time he gets his due. Ben Roethlisberger is at the top of the list in NFL QBs today. The rest of the league should acknowledge it!

By Alan Shimel (http://bleacherreport.com/users/205594-alan-shimel)


Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/575058-ben-roethlisber-is-a-better-quarterback-than-tom-brady-and-here-is-why

Scorp
01-17-2011, 12:06 PM
Stay in the pocket brady and don't come out until i say so. Better yet, just learn a thing or two from Ben scrambling.

Steelers_All_Day_43
01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
Agreed that Ben should be recognized as elite. Hope we win this ring this year

lloydfan4life
01-17-2011, 12:21 PM
Who is this Alan Shimel and why haven't one of us bought him a beer yet? :greengrin:

Scorp
01-17-2011, 12:23 PM
Who is this Alan Shimel and why haven't one of us bought him a beer yet? :greengrin:

Hey Batender? One for lloyd :yellowthumb: and Shimel. :shots:

SteelDad
01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
I'll compare them when their respective careers are over. Right now it's Brady 3 and Ben 2. Thos are the only numbers I care about.

Lunchbucket
01-17-2011, 12:27 PM
Ben gets no respect nationally,and I don't know why.He is better than Brady in making plays work that have broken down. IMHO this intangable makes him the scariest QB a defense can face.

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 12:28 PM
guys, enough with the homerism .. ben is perfect for us, but how many 4000 yard seasons does he have ? who holds more records?

ben is my all time fave, but looking at rankings objectively is a different story

Scorp
01-17-2011, 12:30 PM
I'll compare them when their respective careers are over. Right now it's Brady 3 and Ben 2. Thos are the only numbers I care about.

Brady is done winning super bowls bro. I promise you that. Ben is still getting started. By the time their careers are over Ben will have surpassed brady. Brady can keep his records and Ben can just flash his rings in all the critics faces. I do believe he will either tie Bradshaw or pass him by one.

lloydfan4life
01-17-2011, 12:36 PM
homerism? I don't think so. It's fact.. as pointed out by Alan. Brady would fold up and cry like the little wuss he is if he got pressured and knocked around half as much as Ben does. That's just an unbiased fact. Time and time again we've seen Tom get knocked around in a game and rattled by it, and time and time again we've seen Ben get knocked around in a game and shake it off and come out with the W.

I do, however agree.... Ben is a PERFECT fit for our style of football and I wouldn't trade him for a Brady anyday.

As far as the stats... the only stat that counts is rings... and right now Tom holds the edge, but let's just see when all the cards have been dealt who ends up with the most.

Scorp
01-17-2011, 12:42 PM
I guess no one else notices how frustrated he gets when he makes nothing happen. He yells and whines and cries and pouts and poops and.....well, you get the picture. Sorry Brady that you got no help from the refs this time. Enjoy seeing the Steelers win their 7th Super Bowl. Get your Steelers notepad out and take your best notes son.

steeldoc
01-17-2011, 12:51 PM
Brady is winning 3-2, and gets bonus points for having a smoking hot wife.:grin1:

Scorp
01-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Brady is winning 3-2, and gets bonus points for having a smoking hot wife.:grin1:

Brotha please. His wife is not smoking hot. She is a damn joke. :yellowthumb:

Raleigh Steel
01-17-2011, 01:11 PM
really, the reason ben doesn't get the acclaim that brady does is because of fantasy football!

i like drew brees, and he is a damn good QB, but ben is much better yet doesn't get the pub. manning gets more pub but look at his post-season record...hell the media can't cover it up any more.

debating QB's is fun but pointless. but the fact that ben leads and wins and gets no recognition because he doesn't throw for 300 yards every week is ridiculous. it's a stats obsessed league now! one of the many reasons i hate and won't play fantasy football.

steelersbabex25
01-17-2011, 01:17 PM
guys, enough with the homerism .. ben is perfect for us, but how many 4000 yard seasons does he have ? who holds more records?

ben is my all time fave, but looking at rankings objectively is a different story

We're talking rankings now? Really? How many times has Ben shaken off 5 defenders and bought himself 5 seconds of extra time to find the open receiver and get his team the win? More than I can count. How many times had Brady done that? I could probably count that on one hand..maybe on one finger. Who gives a flying **** about stats? You wanna know why Brady has the rankings he has? Because he sits back there in the pocket for 8 seconds each snap while he's being protected by his all pro offensive line, and throws to wide open receivers. Please. I would take Ben 100 times out of 100 over Tom Brady.

I'm so sick of the Tom Brady d*** sucking and ball washing. Give a division 3 college quarterback the offensive line and weapons that Brady has had since he got into New England, and they would be able to do the exact same thing and have the exact same stats. Give me a break.

TEEMONT
01-17-2011, 01:18 PM
Brady would be terrible as a Steeler...Ben would be terrible as a Pat...

their respective systems work for them....

Scorp
01-17-2011, 01:19 PM
really, the reason ben doesn't get the acclaim that brady does is because of fantasy football!

i like drew brees, and he is a damn good QB, but ben is much better yet doesn't get the pub. manning gets more pub but look at his post-season record...hell the media can't cover it up any more.

debating QB's is fun but pointless. but the fact that ben leads and wins and gets no recognition because he doesn't throw for 300 yards every week is ridiculous. it's a stats obsessed league now! one of the many reasons i hate and won't play fantasy football.

I'll never knock anyone who plays fantasy football but i'll never understand that crap. Sick of all the comparisons again. It come up every season around this time. All those stupid analysts/commentators/critics like seeing qb's pass for high yardage and break records. It means nothing to me. Championships is all that matters. Ben will be the best when it's all said and done. He's not even far from that yet. Ben is the best which is why he is still in the playoffs and brady and manning suck balls which is why they are out. :yellowthumb:

steelchamp204
01-17-2011, 01:30 PM
Brady is better than Ben dont get me wrong, But Ben should be in the convo for an elit qb. No doubt about it.

Root4Stlrs
01-17-2011, 01:31 PM
This very question was debated on First Take this AM. I can't remember everything that was said. It was why isn't Ben's name included up there with Brady and Manning (and now Rodgers)? They said what you would expect like he isn't the perfect pocket passer, etc. like they are, plays for a team that focuses on running and defense and the defense will always get more credit. Interesting, Feely (one of them) was on the panel and said that he thinks a lot of it has to do with Ben's attitude and off the field, as he put it, "transgressions." That he doesn't have the squeaky clean image the others have. The others didn't disagree, but Ronde Barber had the best line. (He also said stats are for losers.) "The bottom for me is would I want him for my QB? Definitely yes." I don't think he said it, but he inferred that he would want Ben over the others. And Brady didn't just start the nerves when he gets pressure after he got hurt. He has always been like that.

SteelCityKid5
01-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Ben is an elite QB.. Im tired of him not getting the recognition... People were putting Brees, Rodgers and Rivers ahead of Ben. Dont get me wrong theyre all great players but not elite.

1) Brady
2) Manning (seat is getting a little warmer)
3) Big Ben

All in all, I want to reserve my judgement until Ben's career is over but he is well on his way to the top

LatrobePA
01-17-2011, 02:13 PM
With each year Brady gets softer. This past game clearly showed he's terrified of getting hit! That shredded knee he had to come back from will haunt him the rest of his playing days..

SteelDad
01-17-2011, 02:16 PM
Brady is done winning super bowls bro. I promise you that. Ben is still getting started. By the time their careers are over Ben will have surpassed brady. Brady can keep his records and Ben can just flash his rings in all the critics faces. I do believe he will either tie Bradshaw or pass him by one.

No one would be happier about that than me. Brady can have all the big numbers but one.... Super Bowl Titles!:cope:

LarryNJ
01-17-2011, 02:22 PM
I don't notice Ben getting no respect. I regularly listen to Philly & NYC sports talk shows along with national ones. Ben is always mentioned in the top 5 QB's and many guys say they would take him over anybody. I really believe that most fans of all teams tend to hear the negative or turn any comments about their teams into negatives. The Steelers get their props as does Ben. If some pick him #1 or #5 really doesn't matter.

North Steel
01-17-2011, 02:58 PM
Ben is an elite QB.. Im tired of him not getting the recognition... People were putting Brees, Rodgers and Rivers ahead of Ben. Dont get me wrong theyre all great players but not elite.

1) Brady
2) Manning (seat is getting a little warmer)
3) Big Ben

All in all, I want to reserve my judgement until Ben's career is over but he is well on his way to the top

Here we go again:cursin:Like I told you B4 Brady's a fag and a pussy.Fu_K with that kind of protection from the OL who wouldn't be great.Just Imagine if Ben ever got that kind of time.:helmet:

pimplydan
01-17-2011, 03:32 PM
O.K. Brady is good to take the 3 step back and release the ball in 3 seconds better than anyone ,he reads defenses well ,and he always comes to play .
He won 3 superbowls
But, he looks like that me , myself , and I type of guy , I'm not so sure he is so much of a good leader .This year he has been acting very strange . Did you see him spike the ball when he scored a touchdown in pittsburgh this year . Take it easy fella !!!
Did you see him on the sidelines trying to rally his offense . He looks insane !!!!

He say he is more of a OUTSPOKEN LEADER NOW , I think if he was a leader he would have been from the start . His leadership qualities SUCK .


You want a leader ? look at BEN ROETHLISBERGER a natural born ...............

LEADER and WINNER .................................................. ............PIMP

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 04:14 PM
We're talking rankings now? Really? How many times has Ben shaken off 5 defenders and bought himself 5 seconds of extra time to find the open receiver and get his team the win? More than I can count. How many times had Brady done that? I could probably count that on one hand..maybe on one finger. Who gives a flying **** about stats? You wanna know why Brady has the rankings he has? Because he sits back there in the pocket for 8 seconds each snap while he's being protected by his all pro offensive line, and throws to wide open receivers. Please. I would take Ben 100 times out of 100 over Tom Brady.

I'm so sick of the Tom Brady d*** sucking and ball washing. Give a division 3 college quarterback the offensive line and weapons that Brady has had since he got into New England, and they would be able to do the exact same thing and have the exact same stats. Give me a break.

Brady has a visibly better arm and throws to a bunch of little smerfs .. what weapons are you talking about? all of that stuff you are saying is too extreme to be taken seriously outside of this website ..

again, i love ben and do think he is elite .. but as good as brady takes a little far ...

1. Brady
2. A-Rod

and the next 5 or 6 seem to blend in .. see - I put Ben and PM in the same zone, but after the year Brady had Ben needed a better YPG etc this year imo

steelersbabex25
01-17-2011, 04:22 PM
Brady has a visibly better arm and throws to a bunch of little smerfs .. what weapons are you talking about? all of that stuff you are saying is too extreme to be taken seriously outside of this website ..

again, i love ben and do think he is elite .. but as good as brady takes a little far ...

1. Brady
2. A-Rod

and the next 5 or 6 seem to blend in .. see - I put Ben and PM in the same zone, but after the year Brady had Ben needed a better YPG etc this year imo

What weapons am I talking about? Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Deion Branch, Donte Stallworth, the list is really pretty long.

All what stuff I'm saying? The fact that Brady couldn't win games for his team with an offensive line that Ben has had for the entirety of his career if his life depended on it? Come on. Brady goes down once he's been grazed by the hand of a defensemen. And not only that, he goes down and cries for a flag 75% of the time. Of course Brady is an elite quarterback, that's why he's in the NFL, but he's a one trick pony. He's a pocket passer, that's why he has all those 4000 yard passing seasons. He can't do anything else.

DIESELMAN
01-17-2011, 04:22 PM
homerism? I don't think so. It's fact.. as pointed out by Alan. Brady would fold up and cry like the little wuss he is if he got pressured and knocked around half as much as Ben does. That's just an unbiased fact. Time and time again we've seen Tom get knocked around in a game and rattled by it, and time and time again we've seen Ben get knocked around in a game and shake it off and come out with the W.

I do, however agree.... Ben is a PERFECT fit for our style of football and I wouldn't trade him for a Brady anyday.

As far as the stats... the only stat that counts is rings... and right now Tom holds the edge, but let's just see when all the cards have been dealt who ends up with the most.

:plus1: :cope::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope:


We're talking rankings now? Really? How many times has Ben shaken off 5 defenders and bought himself 5 seconds of extra time to find the open receiver and get his team the win? More than I can count. How many times had Brady done that? I could probably count that on one hand..maybe on one finger. Who gives a flying **** about stats? You wanna know why Brady has the rankings he has? Because he sits back there in the pocket for 8 seconds each snap while he's being protected by his all pro offensive line, and throws to wide open receivers. Please. I would take Ben 100 times out of 100 over Tom Brady.

I'm so sick of the Tom Brady d*** sucking and ball washing. Give a division 3 college quarterback the offensive line and weapons that Brady has had since he got into New England, and they would be able to do the exact same thing and have the exact same stats. Give me a break.

:plus1::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope:


The big difference between Ben and Brady is............Cajones!!!! Ben has them, Marcia doesn't!!

SteelDad
01-17-2011, 05:03 PM
:plus1: :cope::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope:



:plus1::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope::cope:


The big difference between Ben and Brady is............Cajones!!!! Ben has them, Marcia doesn't!!

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPoA7f0xT1UKelYWRI_n3itBShOcCEm YPpP11ONfGcPM9i2vlSzA

Rampage
01-17-2011, 05:05 PM
I have a hard time comparing Brady and Roethlisberger as I look at them like completely different quarterbacks. The Patriots have a team built around Brady's ability to surgically place the ball: They have put together a quality offensive line, they've grabbed receivers that are capable of catching and getting open, and they run a very opportunistic, take what is there style of offense. This offensive focus has turned the Patriots into a point getting juggernaut.

On the other side is Roethlisberger who focuses on extending the play by moving out of the pocket and hitting receivers after the coverage has broken up. The Steelers have been fortunate because this ability for Roethlisberger to extend plays has allowed the team to focus more on building a solid defense, although the recent pick of Pouncey shows that the team is finally becoming concerned about Roethlisberger getting crushed with so much frequency.

Some folks say that Brady is better than Roethlisberger because he has been paired with a stellar defense all these years while others say Roethlisberger is better because he has never had the protection or scheming that Brady has. I just feel that both are top tier quarterbacks that anyone would be happy to have leading their team.

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 05:45 PM
What weapons am I talking about? Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Deion Branch, Donte Stallworth, the list is really pretty long.

All what stuff I'm saying? The fact that Brady couldn't win games for his team with an offensive line that Ben has had for the entirety of his career if his life depended on it? Come on. Brady goes down once he's been grazed by the hand of a defensemen. And not only that, he goes down and cries for a flag 75% of the time. Of course Brady is an elite quarterback, that's why he's in the NFL, but he's a one trick pony. He's a pocket passer, that's why he has all those 4000 yard passing seasons. He can't do anything else.

OK, so i guess one thing we can agree on is that Moss is no longer on the team :).. but what else could he have done in '07 with that list but break the all-time TD record ? that is not a random occurence and if david tyree does not make a play that he could never do again TB has 4 rings so lets not say "oh he didn't win the superbowl" ...

Neither Welker, Branch or Stallworth are close to No 1 WR's .. so the list is pretty short actually .. almost as short as the said smerfs

it is smart when you are a star to politic for calls .. so what? this is about personalities now?

Look, i like Ben in our system but there is a reason that if you are starting from scratch and speaking in the abstract that the rest of the world would take brady ..

steelersbabex25
01-17-2011, 05:54 PM
OK, so i guess one thing we can agree on is that Moss is no longer on the team :).. but what else could he have done in '07 with that list but break the all-time TD record ? that is not a random occurence and if david tyree does not make a play that he could never do again TB has 4 rings so lets not say "oh he didn't win the superbowl" ...

Neither Welker, Branch or Stallworth are close to No 1 WR's .. so the list is pretty short actually .. almost as short as the said smerfs

it is smart when you are a star to politic for calls .. so what? this is about personalities now?

Look, i like Ben in our system but there is a reason that if you are starting from scratch and speaking in the abstract that the rest of the world would take brady ..

I never said Moss is still on the team. I never said he has a lot of weapons right now. I said he's HAD weapons in the PAST that have allowed him to get all those 4000 yard seasons and break all those records and do whatever else he's done. And that's exactly what I'm saying. It isn't a random occurence. He broke the records BECAUSE of what he had layed out in front of him, not because he was a god send.

I also never said that Welker, Branch, or Stallworth are #1 WRs..Mike Wallace isn't a top receiver yet. Doesn't mean he isn't a weapon.

Is it smart? Maybe. Does he do it because he knows he'll get the calls? Probably. Does the fact that he whines and slaps the ground and cries everytime he's sacked and doesn't get a flag make him a whiney little bitch? Why, yes. Yes it does.

The rest of the world takes Brady because the rest of the world listens to the analysts and experts of the sports world praise his every move. Nobody talks about Ben Roethlisberger until he makes the game winning play to win the superbowl. And then he gets involved in some offseason trouble and he doesn't exist all of the sudden because Roger Goodell (and the rest of the sports world to be frank) doesn't want him to exist, and doesn't want to acknowledge that he's a top quarterback.

MattyVfromCT
01-17-2011, 06:07 PM
really, the reason ben doesn't get the acclaim that brady does is because of fantasy football!

i like drew brees, and he is a damn good QB, but ben is much better yet doesn't get the pub. manning gets more pub but look at his post-season record...hell the media can't cover it up any more.

debating QB's is fun but pointless. but the fact that ben leads and wins and gets no recognition because he doesn't throw for 300 yards every week is ridiculous. it's a stats obsessed league now! one of the many reasons i hate and won't play fantasy football.

AGREE ON EVERYTHING! fantasy football is the number 1 reason why there are so many STUPID nfl fans out there that know nothing about the game. they look at a stat sheet and think they know it all. plus im a defensive guy and i DESPISE how defense is dissed in fantasy football

Danger DANJ
01-17-2011, 06:14 PM
Why does everyone say that Ben is only a scrambler. Give him an O-line like the Pats have and he can be a pocket passer too. I saw glimpses of it the last couple of regular season games against the Browns and Panthers when the O-line was actually able to give Ben time to stay in the pocket.

steelchamp204
01-17-2011, 06:39 PM
:plus1:
Why does everyone say that Ben is only a scrambler. Give him an O-line like the Pats have and he can be a pocket passer too. I saw glimpses of it the last couple of regular season games against the Browns and Panthers when the O-line was actually able to give Ben time to stay in the pocket.

DIESELMAN
01-17-2011, 07:07 PM
plus im a defensive guy and i DESPISE how defense is dissed in fantasy football
How is it dissed? have u ever played IDP's in FF? LB's, DE's, DT's, CB's and S's are played in IDP.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2011, 07:30 PM
You can't knock Tom Brady for winning three Super Bowls....He is an elite QB when he has the time in the pocket.......I give him credit for winning three Super Bowls.....But what separates these two as QB's is Ben never has had great pass protection and still can be an elite QB.......If Ben had the pass protection Tom Brady has enjoyed the majority of the time he would have more monster stat seasons.......

Tom Brady would have folded long ago if he had taken the pounding Ben has had taken throughout Ben's career.........Of course some of this is on Ben as well......But the Steelers Offense is more of a deep throwing team and Arians/Ben is more stubborn to adjust to a shorter quit hitting passing game........I also seriously doubt Brady would have battled through a shoulder injury like Ben suffered through most of the 2008 season.....It was clear Ben's shoulder was injured most of that season but Ben soldiered on like this year battling his injuries....

Ben has also made great strides as a pocket passer..........The winning drive in Super Bowl XLIII and the entire 2009 season really proves that.......Ben was more in the pocket then ever in 2009........

Ben has won two Super Bowls and maybe a third since Brady won his last.....Ben is still in his prime while Brady could start to drop off.....I'll take Big Ben over any QB in the NFL.....Even current Golden Boy Aaron Rodgers.....But Rodgers is damn good though........

T4V
01-17-2011, 07:31 PM
I they're both one of, if not the greatest along with Joe Montana in terms of who I'd want most in the playoffs. Gotta remember Brady would have a 4th ring right now and another game winning superbowl drive under his belt if Samuel holds on to the interception or his defense could sack Eli.

Ben's only 28, and has quite a while to go, so he may very well surpass Brady..but I'd still give an oh so slight edge to Brady.

I thought these stats were interesting, though:


Steelers defense has given up 21 pts a game on average in the last 11 playoff games, so there goes that whole "the defense carries him" thing.

Big Ben, in 11 playoff games, has never had a Steelers team score below 20 points. 9-2

Tom Brady, in 19 playoff games, has led a Pats team that scored under 20 5 times. 14-5

Peyton Manning, in 19 playoff games, has led a Colts team that scored under 20 10 times. 9-10

Roethlisberger is also the only QB in NFL history to have a winning record in the playoffs when the opponent scores 21+ points

steelersbabex25
01-17-2011, 07:34 PM
You can't knock Tom Brady for winning three Super Bowls....He is an elite QB when he has the time in the pocket.......I give him credit for winning three Super Bowls.....But what separates these two as QB's is Ben never has had great pass protection and still can be an elite QB.......If Ben had the pass protection Tom Brady has enjoyed the majority of the time he would have more monster stat seasons.......

Tom Brady would have folded long ago if he had taken the pounding Ben has had taken throughout Ben's career.........Of course some of this is on Ben as well......But the Steelers Offense is more of a deep throwing team and Arians/Ben is more stubborn to adjust to a shorter quit hitting passing game........I also seriously doubt Brady would have battled through a shoulder injury like Ben suffered through most of the 2008 season.....It was clear Ben's shoulder was injured most of that season but Ben soldiered on like this year battling his injuries....

Ben has also made great strides as a pocket passer..........The winning drive in Super Bowl XLIII and the entire 2009 season really proves that.......Ben was more in the pocket then ever in 2009........

Ben has won two Super Bowls and maybe a third since Brady won his last.....Ben is still in his prime while Brady could start to drop off.....I'll take Big Ben over any QB in the NFL.....Even current Golden Boy Aaron Rodgers.....But Rodgers is damn good though........

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. :lol:

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2011, 07:38 PM
Colts Defense gave up only 17 points to the Jets so I'm glad you posted those numbers.....In the 2003 AFC title game when the Colts lost 20-3 to the Pats the Colts D only gave up 20 points in New England....When you factor in the Colts offense turned the ball over like 4 or 5 times that game only given up 20 points is damn good.....Peyton has always been a fraud.......He deserves the Hall of Fame for the records he sets in the regular season and his one Super Bowl win....But Manning had 3 TD passes and 7 Int's in the post-season that year........But I'll never consider Peyton the best ever and I rather have Ben in clutch moments.........

--- Added 1/17/2011 at 06:38 PM ---


Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. :lol:

at least I'm good for something......:lol:

T4V
01-17-2011, 07:41 PM
Peyton is easily, in my mind, the most overrated QB to ever play..I'd have him around #10 all time in QBs..but he's so often referred to as the greatest ever despite his knack for failing in the playoffs, and that just doesn't cut it with me.

After that miraculous comeback vs the Pats in the AFC Title game, I thought Peyton had finally found that "IT factor" he'd been lacking in the playoffs..but it appears it was just a fluke.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2011, 07:49 PM
Peyton is easily, in my mind, the most overrated QB to ever play..I'd have him around #10 all time in QBs..but he's so often referred to as the greatest ever despite his knack for failing in the playoffs, and that just doesn't cut it with me.

After that miraculous comeback vs the Pats in the AFC Title game, I thought Peyton had finally found that "IT factor" he'd been lacking in the playoffs..but it appears it was just a fluke.

Your right about that comeback against the Pats in the 2006 AFC title game....I was with you there in thinking Peyton had turned the corner and that is the most clutch performance of Peyton's NFL career.......

But Super Bowl against the Saints proved once again Peyton made the critical mistake in a big moment....He is a great QB no doubt and I don't doubt his Hall of Fame credentials but he has proven time and time again to fail in the clutch.......He did drive the Colts to the go ahead field goal against the Jets......But only 16 points scored on offense while their D only gave up 17 wasn't enough.....Colts D is always knocked but at times in the play-offs the Colts D hasn't been as bad as most think at times.....

Big T
01-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Peyton Manning isn't the most clutch QB of all-time, but when it's all said and done he is going to go down as one of the best to ever play the position...an deservedly so. I have no problems with Peyton. I wouldn't have any problems with Brady either if he wasn't such a ****.

Ps. Ben Roethlisberger is the best fit for our system. No question. Aaron Rodgers would be the next best thing.

T4V
01-17-2011, 07:55 PM
Yeah, Peyton has everything else but that IT factor. I don't think there's ever been a QB as smart as him..his accuracy is as good as it gets, he's got the arm strength to make any throw, he's got the size, he's not the most mobile guy, but he knows how to side step rushers in the pocket. In terms of just plain intangibles, there's never been, and probably never will be a QB like Peyton. He just lacks the greatness in the playoffs.

Yeah, the Colts D is a huge reason he has a ring..he played anywhere from average to absolute crap in 3 of the 4 games on their superbowl run, the Pats game being the lone exception. And if the Colts faced anyone other than Rex Grossman in the superbowl, I'm not sure Peyton would have played well enough to get the Colts a win in that game.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-17-2011, 08:00 PM
I agree Peyton is intelligent and no player studies/prepares like him........

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 08:07 PM
Ok, so here are things we all 100% agree on .. maybe..

1. Ben is seriously underrated in popular media and if you have him outside the top 6 or so that is crazy
2. Ben is a better fit for our system than Brady
3. Brady is a better pure passer

My only thing is that Brady throws passes that look like they came out of a machine .. he can throw it down the field and his short game is somehow almost as impressive .. the points of ben doing more with a less impressive O-line are certainly valid, but Brady did more with less offensive weapons this year ...

the more interesting question to me is how big of an impact has BB and, like it or not, Josh McDaniels, had on Brady's development ? That is what may set them apart imo and at the end of the day all the adjustments for skill position players and O-line will be in the background and their stats will be the focus

PS guys .. I thought I was soooo crazy last year for saying A-Rod was the next best QB?

T4V
01-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Josh McDaniels had no impact on Tom Brady. Weis is the guy who coached Brady in to what he is today.

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 08:18 PM
the whole josh mcdaniels thing is more of a joke on a thread i started to **** a few people off "like it or not" jk.. BUT don't forget he was the OC the year Brady made history

--- Added 1/17/2011 at 07:18 PM ---

and was part of his development no doubt .. weiss left in like 04 or 05 .. i hate mcdaniels from many angles, but he knows offensive logistics in and out

steelers4life66
01-17-2011, 08:34 PM
and the next 5 or 6 seem to blend in .. see - I put Ben and PM in the same zone, but after the year Brady had Ben needed a better YPG etc this year imo :nono:

Tom Brady 3,900 yards and Ben Roethlisberger 3,200 yards. Have you forgotten Ben didn't play 4 games this year. Now, do you want to rethink that statement??

steelersbabex25
01-17-2011, 09:16 PM
:nono:

Tom Brady 3,900 yards and Ben Roethlisberger 3,200 yards. Have you forgotten Ben didn't play 4 games this year. Now, do you want to rethink that statement??

Truth! :yellowthumb:

Scorp
01-17-2011, 09:25 PM
Ben is #1 on my list. That is all that matters.

LatrobePA
01-17-2011, 09:42 PM
Ben has two more games to win!! Lets take it easy!! I love him, but this would put him over the top with all the **** he has went through!!

Scorp
01-17-2011, 09:51 PM
Ben has two more games to win!! Lets take it easy!! I love him, but this would put him over the top with all the **** he has went through!!

You know it's more than love Bro. Can't you feel the excitement? :cope:

weare43fans
01-17-2011, 09:55 PM
If Ben keeps winning Super Bowls, they won't have a choice but to say he is an elite QB. Beat the Jets, and win another Super Bowl. Go Steelers!!!

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 09:56 PM
:nono:

Tom Brady 3,900 yards and Ben Roethlisberger 3,200 yards. Have you forgotten Ben didn't play 4 games this year. Now, do you want to rethink that statement??

No, I don't want to rethink it .. I'd rather you read it again or post what you are actually referring vs. whatever you call that because I said Brady did more with less in the skill position department, Ben had fewer 4000 yard seasons and he had a better overall year ... that was the main point, YPG etc meaning more than YPG

So, lets say he did play all 16 games and had a 4000 yard season .. Would he really still line up with him statistically? Brady threw 36 TD's and 4 INT's ... Also, FYI it is not Brady's fault that Ben did not play those 4 games ..

again, ben is my favorite player of all-time .. that does not mean i think he is the best tho ..

Scorp
01-17-2011, 10:00 PM
No, I don't want to rethink it .. I'd rather you read it again or post what you are actually referring vs. whatever you call that because I said Brady did more with less in the skill position department, Ben had fewer 4000 yard seasons and he had a better overall year ...

So, lets say he did play all 16 games and had a 4000 yard season .. Would he really still line up with him statistically? Brady threw 36 TD's and 4 INT's ... Also, FYI it is not Brady's fault that Ben did not play those 4 games ..

again, he is my favorite player of all-time .. that does not mean i think he is the best tho ..

In other words they always find some other way to single out Ben. This is for you doubters out there. All you doubters. :2fingers:.....:firing:

Real Deal Steel
01-17-2011, 10:09 PM
Agreed that Ben should be recognized as elite. Hope we win this ring this year

Ben is Elite. But the only way he gets his proper recognition is to win another ring. Then they have to have him as Elite.

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 10:24 PM
no question ben is elite .. i would never disagree with that ..

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-17-2011, 10:49 PM
Ben is Elite. But the only way he gets his proper recognition is to win another ring. Then they have to have him as Elite.

It takes more then rings to be elite, by that logic Marino wasn't. They both work within their systems very well.Would Ben flourish in the Pats system? I'd be pretty much willing to bet the house he would. Would Brady flourish in the STEELERS system , that I not quite as sure of. Interesting stats of regular season:

comp/att Pct Att/g Yards Avg Yds/G TD INT
1) Tom Brady 324/492 65.9 30.2 3900 7.9 243.8 36 4
5) BEN 240/389 61.7 32.4 3200 8.2 266.7 17 5

Given Ben's shortened season,if ya take the average x 4 would add another 1066 yds...Surprised to see the attempt per game average higher for Ben...has him on the average gain, not surprising with the "dink and dunk" Brady uses... yds/game I found very interesting,did not expect that one...TDs Brady blows him away...

It is so tough to compare 2 players at any position from different teams, it does make fun debates though....

Real Deal Steel
01-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Don't get me started on Marino. But in short, in my book he wasn't elite. Just very good. But performing under pressure and getting that ring is by and large the measurement for eliteness. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

andyg1984
01-17-2011, 11:44 PM
whoa whoa marino was big time elite ..

Black@Gold Forever32
01-18-2011, 02:55 AM
Dan Marino was elite and one of the best ever.....He had nothing around him........The Marks Brothers were good for awhile but the majority of his career Marino didn't have much of supporting cast....No defense, running game, mediocre WR's...........Marino did lead the Dolphins to Super Bowl XIX against the 49ers.....He didn't get a Rex Grossman led Bears team like Peyton Manning.....lol

Trust me I think winning a Super Bowl is a huge key factor in deciding a QB's true greatness.........But there is exceptions to the rule.....Dan Marino is that exception.....Even if Peyton hadn't won a Super Bowl he still would be among the top 10 best QB's ever.....This is coming from a Peyton hater.......But that doesn't mean I would take Peyton over Ben in the clutch or in the post-season........

Phenomenal TJ
01-18-2011, 04:45 AM
To be fair, they're both extremely good quarterbacks. They just do it differently. Brady doesn't improvise as much, and thus has to have the better mechanics and ball protection. Roethlisberger can take chances, because even if he blows one of them, he has the ability to make up for it within that game.

And the highlight of Brady's scrambling is where he shook Urlacher out of his cleats. The check's from his Nike's are still on the field.

DIESELMAN
01-18-2011, 07:50 AM
It's like comparing apples to oranges, 2 different offensive philosophies. I'll take Ben over Brady any day of the week, not because he's a Steeler but because he has already proven that with good protection, he can sit in the pocket all day and pick a defense apart. Likewise, he has proven without a doubt that he can make **** happen when he is under pressure. Can Brady do that? Don't know, he has been spoiled by having a good OL his whole career. Not his fault though, but I would say, he couldn't just by what we see and how he reacts when he does get pressured. Bottom line, any good QB can sit behind a good OL and dink and dunk all day, but it takes a rare breed of QB to do what Ben does week in and week out. Ben is mentally tough and doesn't blink.

steelersbabex25
01-18-2011, 10:10 AM
It's like comparing apples to oranges, 2 different offensive philosophies. I'll take Ben over Brady any day of the week, not because he's a Steeler but because he has already proven that with good protection, he can sit in the pocket all day and pick a defense apart. Likewise, he has proven without a doubt that he can make **** happen when he is under pressure. Can Brady do that? Don't know, he has been spoiled by having a good OL his whole career. Not his fault though, but I would say, he couldn't just by what we see and how he reacts when he does get pressured. Bottom line, any good QB can sit behind a good OL and dink and dunk all day, but it takes a rare breed of QB to do what Ben does week in and week out. Ben is mentally tough and doesn't blink.

Also what I've been trying to say. :yellowthumb::plus1:

andyg1984
01-18-2011, 11:45 AM
I don't understand all this dink and dunk talk ..brady has a way way way better deep ball than ben .. we all know that ..

anyway, another thing we can all agree on too i think is that Brady would have never made the epic tackle which, at minimum, indirectly won us that game vs INDY ..

anyhow, i think we have all had enough with this conversation .. im not superstitous, but i dont want to jinx anything so i am going to stop for safe measures :)

Scorp
01-18-2011, 12:26 PM
Brady is not good anymore. I'm tired of seeing him lose. I get no satisfaction anymore. His days are timed and his time is running very short. Ben still has many years left and we can all sit back, crack open a few cold ones and watch Ben become king of the nfl. Everyone with a microphone is gonna start licking Ben's nuts now. Hey Brady, Manning, you can't play great forever.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-18-2011, 01:20 PM
I don't understand all this dink and dunk talk ..brady has a way way way better deep ball than ben .. we all know that ..

anyway, another thing we can all agree on too i think is that Brady would have never made the epic tackle which, at minimum, indirectly won us that game vs INDY ..

anyhow, i think we have all had enough with this conversation .. im not superstitous, but i dont want to jinx anything so i am going to stop for safe measures :)

Ben's deep ball has looked better then ever this year.....I don't understand the continued knocking of Ben in that regard....I'm not saying you but just saying in general......There is noway Brady makes that throw on 3rd and 19 against the Ravens.....I'm not saying Brad doesn't have the arm strength to make it but I don't see him having the moxy this year.......Maybe if he still had the Randy Moss of 2007 not the washed up Moss who was traded........:lol:

Only two QB's in the NFL make that throw at that spot in the game and down/distance.....Ben and Aaron Rodgers.......