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View Full Version : How would you grade Ziggy to date?



ctsteelah
11-15-2010, 07:31 PM
I admit I am not an expert in the nuances of a 3-4 defense but I do know that you do not go running to the box score stats {tackles/sacks} when you want to evaluate the effectiveness of a DE in this type of scheme.

Would you give him a pass right now? When I try to isolate on him it seems like he is giving ground at the point of attack but then again I only get a couple snapshots of him in action.

I know he will never be a Warren Sapp in Coach D!ck's D but it seemed like he had a lot of upside coming out of college.

Troyisabeast_43
11-15-2010, 07:39 PM
He has not been very good the last few weeks when I have noticed him during the games...He doesnt get the same kind of push that we are use to from the line of scrimmage and has not been very effective thus far since replacing Aaron Smith...

steelersbabex25
11-15-2010, 07:49 PM
Not as good as we all thought he was gonna be.

DanRooney
11-15-2010, 08:01 PM
C-. Not good, not overly bad. About the same as Woodley has been.

Farrior Fan
11-15-2010, 08:02 PM
Was he in the game last night?

K Train
11-15-2010, 08:47 PM
Not as good as we all thought he was gonna be.
lol


ill give him a D since he had a tremendous training camp

LatrobePA
11-15-2010, 09:08 PM
Hood is no good!

BlitzburghRockCity
11-15-2010, 10:22 PM
You guys are trying to compare him to a line that had Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel in there. It's not a fair comparison. Those 2 guys are all pros that have been doing it for a long time. They are established players who know all the techniques of the position. Hood and Eason are not Smith and Keisel.

Hood has been decent, he still has a ways to go but he's getting there. If you are going to compare him, make sure it's a fair comparison. Just because the expectations don't change, it's naive to think that the production will not. It's a work in progress for sure, but atleast it's better so far than it was last year without Aaron in there.

K Train
11-15-2010, 10:39 PM
i dont want him to be aaron smith....he could at least be calais campbell or kendall langford though...hell i would settle for him being tyson jackson or glenn dorsey, both sucked *** their rookie year and came in strong their second

LatrobePA
11-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Yesterdays stats, if he was remotely good he'd be on here:

Defense T-A SCK INT FF
B. McFadden 9-0 0.0 0 0
J. Harrison 6-3 0.0 0 0
R. Clark 5-4 0.0 0 0
J. Farrior 5-5 0.0 0 0
I. Taylor 5-1 0.0 0 0
L. Timmons 4-2 0.0 0 0
W. Gay 2-1 0.0 0 0
C. Hampton 2-0 0.0 0 0
T. Polamalu 2-0 0.0 0 0
N. Eason 1-2 0.0 0 0
L. Foote 1-1 0.0 0 0
L. Woodley 1-2 0.0 0 0
C. Hoke 0-1 0.0 0 0

JensK
11-16-2010, 05:18 AM
If only he could HOLD his man one-on-one, but he is getting pushed off the ball in one-on-one, whereas Keisel and Smith demands doubleteams and still get a push. Not trying to compare him to either as that would not be fair, but it really is a problem that we can't compare our first rounder to a 4th and 7th round pick.

Dean Denton
11-16-2010, 05:34 AM
I would rate him the same as the rest of the D-line without Smith in there..."F" They all suck without Smith.

JensK
11-16-2010, 05:36 AM
I would rate him the same as the rest of the D-line without Smith in there..."F" They all suck without Smith.

can't say I agree. Hampton have been playing really well the whole season, but he is obviously not the player to actually collapse the pocket. Last year, when Smith went down, Keisel had his best season, by far actually. The problem is, it's still way too easy to run the ball to the other side...

UKSTEELER
11-16-2010, 08:22 AM
One thing I have noticed is, . . . he seems painfully slow coming off the ball!

Iron City South
11-16-2010, 09:03 AM
GRADE - "B"

Ziggy has been doing his job. Not much is expected from a DE in a 34 defense. He's been filling his gap and getting very good latteral movement to alter the course of plays to his side.

That's all he's supposed to be doing.

HUNT4SEVEN
11-16-2010, 09:14 AM
NO COMMENT:lol: I will say this though it took Kiesel and Smith years to learn the DE position also, to me he seems to be playing out of position, why not try him at NT? and let the other cats play DE, I believe Tomlin should be trying to figure out how to get the best out of his players that he has on the D-Line , what happend to Mc Clendon? i thought he said he like guys that have position flexibility? because what we have now on the D-Line is not working,Hopefully Ziggy will get better i don't think AS would make the statement about Ziggy that he did if it is not true...

BlitzburghRockCity
11-16-2010, 11:19 AM
Defensive lineman never make it high on the stat charts, sometimes they don't make it at all, it's just how the game plays out. Right now he's our only option and considering the pressure that's on him he is doing OK. I wouldn't say he is great, nor would I say he sucks, he's just in the middle right now and he is seeing a lot of double teams too like Smith normally does. Aaron can recognize a blocking scheme as soon as the line comes up and gets set and he knows how to beat it. Right now Hood is occupying space and we are still stopping the run with out Smith, so he can't be all that bad.

As the John Mitchell, the Steelers defensive line coach says, we ask our lineman in a 34 defense to do 1 thing and that is stop the run. So far we are still doing that according to the stats.

Rampage
11-16-2010, 11:55 AM
I don't think he has been too bad. Sure, there is a drop off from Smith, but that is to be expected. I definitely don't blame him for the mess that this team is in defensively.

SteelDad
11-16-2010, 12:10 PM
Remember guys, the unsung hero in any 3-4 defense is always the defensive ends. We know how valuable A. Smith is to us, but do the rest of the fans around the league know who he is??? Ziggy has been a 'C' at best IMO. He has held his ground at times and done a nice job on contain, but I'd like to see a little more pass rush out of him.

Zachintosh66
11-16-2010, 01:39 PM
C = At what point does the potential scale meet the reality scale? Especially for a first round pick...

super cleats
11-16-2010, 01:52 PM
C+...

harpo
11-16-2010, 01:52 PM
GRADE - "B"

Ziggy has been doing his job. Not much is expected from a DE in a 34 defense. He's been filling his gap and getting very good latteral movement to alter the course of plays to his side.

That's all he's supposed to be doing.

I agree....though i'd probably give him a high C+ or B-. I think he's been doing what coach LeBeau asks of him. This is his 2nd year and it's not like he's a starter. He's still learning this complex defense.

A lot of people were calling Lawrence Timmons a 'bust' prior to this year, after his first year as a starter. I can only imagine how much 'crow' his critics are eating right now.

K Train
11-16-2010, 02:26 PM
ive always been a big timmons supporter, never once thought bust....i dont even think hood is a bust, i just think hes a terrible fit and spends alot of his time getting gashed in the run and laying on the ground as a 5 tech. hes really not good i dont know what game you guys giving him a B are watching....he blows and has been an abortion on the dline.

at least he had a good camp though

harpo
11-16-2010, 02:44 PM
Well, I don't expect him to be the next Aaron Smith, but like Iron City said, he's filling his gaps and altering running plays so the LBs can make tackles. If he was a starter, i'd give him a "D". But based on the fact that he has played a limited amount of time, a C+ or B-, IMHO, is warranted.

JensK
11-16-2010, 06:29 PM
Well, I don't expect him to be the next Aaron Smith, but like Iron City said, he's filling his gaps and altering running plays so the LBs can make tackles. If he was a starter, i'd give him a "D". But based on the fact that he has played a limited amount of time, a C+ or B-, IMHO, is warranted.

The thing is, if that was true it would be awesome, but it is not. He is not filling his holes as he are supposed to. He is getting manhandled 1 on 1 all the time. There is no way a lineman should be pushed backwards, which Ziggy is most of the time, and that is 1 on 1... He does, rarely, get a little lateral movement, which is great if he could get free to tackle, but he can't as he is getting bullied by whichever lineman is on him. If you are filling a gap, you are filling up the space between the guard and tackle (or center and guard, but most of the time Hampton does that), basically making those two worry about you, hence not being able to run at that spot. Ziggy is being thrown to the ground or moved away from the ball.

Im not even trying to be a hater here, as I've been a supporter of Ziggy, even though he was never a 5 technique guy. I would REALLY like him to pan out, because he seems like a great kid and everything, but he is just playing horrible at the moment.

LatrobePA
11-16-2010, 07:15 PM
Hood likes to stand up and play patty cake too much...He's not very good!!

nuclearchihuahuas
11-16-2010, 07:28 PM
personally, I think Ziggy has played average. He hasn't impressed me but I am not ready to throw him out with Reed yet

K Train
11-16-2010, 10:26 PM
i like how half of you actually watch him and see him get thrown around

LatrobePA
11-16-2010, 10:33 PM
i like how half of you actually watch him and see him get thrown around

I always yell get off your f'n block and hit someone, but he won't!! lol

harpo
11-17-2010, 10:37 AM
The thing is, if that was true it would be awesome, but it is not. He is not filling his holes as he are supposed to. He is getting manhandled 1 on 1 all the time. There is no way a lineman should be pushed backwards, which Ziggy is most of the time, and that is 1 on 1... He does, rarely, get a little lateral movement, which is great if he could get free to tackle, but he can't as he is getting bullied by whichever lineman is on him. If you are filling a gap, you are filling up the space between the guard and tackle (or center and guard, but most of the time Hampton does that), basically making those two worry about you, hence not being able to run at that spot. Ziggy is being thrown to the ground or moved away from the ball.

Im not even trying to be a hater here, as I've been a supporter of Ziggy, even though he was never a 5 technique guy. I would REALLY like him to pan out, because he seems like a great kid and everything, but he is just playing horrible at the moment.

Well, if he was getting man-handled all the time, I don't think he would be out on the field at all. I don't know of one player who fills his gaps every single time. What I am saying is, based on his short stint as a replacement starter, and being in one of the most complex defenses in the league, he's doing just about what I expected him to do. A lot of people expect him to step right in and be an All-Pro. That's ridiculous.

In addition, it's funny how most Steeler fans seem to forget that it took Aaron Smith a while to finally get it right.

K Train
11-17-2010, 01:43 PM
Well, if he was getting man-handled all the time, I don't think he would be out on the field at all. I don't know of one player who fills his gaps every single time. What I am saying is, based on his short stint as a replacement starter, and being in one of the most complex defenses in the league, he's doing just about what I expected him to do. A lot of people expect him to step right in and be an All-Pro. That's ridiculous.

In addition, it's funny how most Steeler fans seem to forget that it took Aaron Smith a while to finally get it right.

you evander supporters are really misconstruing my expectations...i dont want him to be a pro bowler, all pro, or perfect like aaron smith. i would however like him to be effective, live up to his number one pick status even a LITTLE bit, and maybe live up to the hype he got in training camp, although that seems unlikely as he was apparently the second coming. he blows at this point in his career, id trade him away for a 4th round pick and cut our losses

igor0190
11-17-2010, 02:11 PM
He's so physically strong I don't understand how he gets pushed around so much??? I know there's much more involved than strength, but you think it would help him. His technique must be terrible.

I know Hood was a reach and they should drafted another position, but would any of these DL's taken after Hood in the '09 draft been any better? Really, there's not much on this list to brag about:

40 Ron Brace DT Boston College - New England Patriots
43 Everette Brown DE Florida State - Carolina Panthers
46 Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati - Houston Texans
52 David Veikune DE Hawaii - Cleveland Browns
56 Moala, FiliFili Moala DT USC - Indianapolis Colts
57 Kruger, PaulPaul Kruger DE Utah - Baltimore Ravens
62 Sen'Derrick Marks DT Auburn - Tennessee Titans
63 Cody Brown DE Connecticut - Arizona Cardinals
67 Alex Magee DT Purdue - Kansas City Chiefs
68 Jarron Gilbert DT San Jose State - Chicago Bears
70 Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech - Cincinnati Bengals
71 Matt Shaughnessy DE Wisconsin - Oakland Raiders
72 Terrance Knighton DT Temple - Jacksonville Jaguars

harpo
11-17-2010, 02:30 PM
you evander supporters are really misconstruing my expectations...i dont want him to be a pro bowler, all pro, or perfect like aaron smith. i would however like him to be effective, live up to his number one pick status even a LITTLE bit, and maybe live up to the hype he got in training camp, although that seems unlikely as he was apparently the second coming. he blows at this point in his career, id trade him away for a 4th round pick and cut our losses

Well if he's going to be effective, I think he's going to need more 'reps', besides those he got as a rotational player last year and aside from the couple games he's started this year. If he's going to be consistent, then he's going to need consistent playing time. He has to play and that's the bottomline. Yes, he 'sucks' by most fans' standards, but i'm willing to give the kid a few years.


He's so physically strong I don't understand how he gets pushed around so much??? I know there's much more involved than strength, but you think it would help him. His technique must be terrible.

Technique, balance, etc.

But these are things that can be corrected with the right coaching and his willingness to get better. If he's not willing, then it won't happen.

igor0190
11-17-2010, 02:44 PM
But these are things that can be corrected with the right coaching and his willingness to get better. If he's not willing, then it won't happen.

From what i've heard, hard work is not his problem. He's always been an extremely hard worker and seemed to be a lot of the reason the Steelers liked him and drafted him. Work ethic.

harpo
11-17-2010, 02:59 PM
From what i've heard, hard work is not his problem. He's always been an extremely hard worker and seemed to be a lot of the reason the Steelers liked him and drafted him. Work ethic.

Yeah, i've read where Dick LeBeau was pleased with his work ethic. Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton have had positive things to say about him, too.

I think it's more of a mental thing with him....just like it was with Timmons.

K Train
11-17-2010, 04:13 PM
He's so physically strong I don't understand how he gets pushed around so much??? I know there's much more involved than strength, but you think it would help him. His technique must be terrible.

I know Hood was a reach and they should drafted another position, but would any of these DL's taken after Hood in the '09 draft been any better? Really, there's not much on this list to brag about:

40 Ron Brace DT Boston College - New England Patriots
43 Everette Brown DE Florida State - Carolina Panthers
46 Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati - Houston Texans
52 David Veikune DE Hawaii - Cleveland Browns
56 Moala, FiliFili Moala DT USC - Indianapolis Colts
57 Kruger, PaulPaul Kruger DE Utah - Baltimore Ravens
62 Sen'Derrick Marks DT Auburn - Tennessee Titans
63 Cody Brown DE Connecticut - Arizona Cardinals
67 Alex Magee DT Purdue - Kansas City Chiefs
68 Jarron Gilbert DT San Jose State - Chicago Bears
70 Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech - Cincinnati Bengals
71 Matt Shaughnessy DE Wisconsin - Oakland Raiders
72 Terrance Knighton DT Temple - Jacksonville Jaguars

gilbert is impressing in NYs 34 defense....they got such a stacked roster he wont player for a year or two which is probably good....i loved me some sammie lee hill though and ron brace as well....hood is just not what we needed, hes a hard worker and im sure a good guy but he cant do what the steelers ask of their ends

Iron City South
11-17-2010, 04:16 PM
I can't believe some of you are bustin Ziggy's balls when the guy has only started a handful of games in his professional career (basically didn't play at all last year).

I think part of the problem is that some of you think that because he's a 1st round pick, he's supposed to immediately be this "IMPACT" player in a high profile position.

Sorry, but a DE in a 34 defense is not "high profile" or "IMPACT" by any stretch of the imagination.

K Train
11-17-2010, 04:25 PM
I can't believe some of you are bustin Ziggy's balls when the guy has only started a handful of games in his professional career (basically didn't play at all last year).

I think part of the problem is that some of you think that because he's a 1st round pick, he's supposed to immediately be this "IMPACT" player in a high profile position.

Sorry, but a DE in a 34 defense is not "high profile" or "IMPACT" by any stretch of the imagination.

no ****....aaron smith and keisel dont get stats, but they are clearly effective without them. i cant believe some of you are riding his nuts when its obvious hes not cut out for the position. he blows, he needs to play inside and only inside....he makes hampton and woodley work double OT because he cant hold his gap or get off any blocks

LatrobePA
11-17-2010, 04:31 PM
When Timmons and Woodley got to play even in a limited roll in their younger days they at least showed flash I understand they're two diffrent postions, but that was all I needed to see to fully expect them to be studs...

Hood looks like he's swatting flies out there!!

K Train
11-17-2010, 04:33 PM
he looks like a lost little retard out there rolling around on his back when a lineman gets a hand on him....hes the frank summers of DEs, what a terrible draft class

LatrobePA
11-17-2010, 04:39 PM
he looks like a lost little retard out there rolling around on his back when a lineman gets a hand on him....hes the frank summers of DEs, what a terrible draft class

LMAO!!!! It's not funny but it is!!

K Train
11-17-2010, 04:46 PM
he looks the part, at least he has that going for him

harpo
11-17-2010, 05:05 PM
I can't believe some of you are bustin Ziggy's balls when the guy has only started a handful of games in his professional career (basically didn't play at all last year).

I think part of the problem is that some of you think that because he's a 1st round pick, he's supposed to immediately be this "IMPACT" player in a high profile position.

Sorry, but a DE in a 34 defense is not "high profile" or "IMPACT" by any stretch of the imagination.

I think that's exactly what it is. Dude only has, what, 3 career starts? You'd think he was in LeBeau's system for 8 yrs based on the criticism that is being spewed....lol.

K Train
11-17-2010, 05:13 PM
thats such a cliche argument for a young player "zomgzzzz hes so young he only has x number of starts, its like so totally hard to be a pro football player"

even so you have to show something, and he didnt even do that in the 4th quarter of preseason games against far inferior talents

when is waiting long enough....10 starts? 16 starts? when he gets cut for being ineffective? of course the coaches and veteran players say good things about him. the coaches drafted him and the players like him because hes a good guy.

he wouldnt be sniffing the field in garbage time if there werent so many injuries.....eason is SO much better than him and would get spell duty

grading him "to date" hes been disappointing, maybe his potential is B-A territory (unlikely) but to this date hes been a failure...anyone giving him a grade to date as a B or C then you are grading him on a MEAN curve

harpo
11-17-2010, 05:41 PM
thats such a cliche argument for a young player "zomgzzzz hes so young he only has x number of starts, its like so totally hard to be a pro football player"

even so you have to show something, and he didnt even do that in the 4th quarter of preseason games against far inferior talents

when is waiting long enough....10 starts? 16 starts? when he gets cut for being ineffective? of course the coaches and veteran players say good things about him. the coaches drafted him and the players like him because hes a good guy.

he wouldnt be sniffing the field in garbage time if there werent so many injuries.....eason is SO much better than him and would get spell duty

grading him "to date" hes been disappointing, maybe his potential is B-A territory (unlikely) but to this date hes been a failure

Well, IMHO, he has shown "something". It may not be up to your standards, which I can respect, but he has shown something.

As far as waiting goes, most players in the NFL don't blossom until year 3 (i.e. Mario Williams, and he started from day uno). And those who eventually come into their own consistently got the time to play. But we all have our own timeline on when we expect a player to blossom, and I think yours is definitely not three years (lol).

However, I would say that, yes...i'm grading him on a curve. Why? Because he has only started 3 games and played as a 'rotational' player last year. If he'd been playing as a starter all this time, his grade would easily be an "F".

K Train
11-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Well, IMHO, he has shown "something". It may not be up to your standards, which I can respect, but he has shown something.

As far as waiting goes, most players in the NFL don't blossom until year 3 (i.e. Mario Williams, and he started from day uno). And those who eventually come into their own consistently got the time to play. But we all have our own timeline on when we expect a player to blossom, and I think yours is definitely not three years (lol).

However, I would say that, yes...i'm grading him on a curve. Why? Because he has only started 3 games and played as a 'rotational' player last year. If he'd been playing as a starter all this time, his grade would easily be an "F".
some players need 3 years...yes, most need two before they start showing something, some are studs as rookies, i dont expect that most of the time but hood wasnt a "raw" prsoepct....it was a "new" position and i get that but he was a pretty pro ready guy as far as physical build, coaching, technique, and work ethic. hes got the work ethic of a vet, no doubt about it.

i understand its not te easiest position to play, its probably one of the hardest to transition to besides Qb and WR, but my biggest problem with him is the hype machine thats been backing him and all the fan love without ANY production. TC phenom until further notice for him, i was even kind of on board after his beast camp, **** me right? lol

harpo
11-17-2010, 05:58 PM
some players need 3 years...yes, most need two before they start showing something, some are studs as rookies, i dont expect that most of the time but hood wasnt a "raw" prsoepct....it was a "new" position and i get that but he was a pretty pro ready guy as far as physical build, coaching, technique, and work ethic. hes got the work ethic of a vet, no doubt about it.

i understand its not te easiest position to play, its probably one of the hardest to transition to besides Qb and WR, but my biggest problem with him is the hype machine thats been backing him and all the fan love without ANY production. TC phenom until further notice for him, i was even kind of on board after his beast camp, **** me right? lol

Ok, I feel you but I didn't know you were 'kinda' on board.....lol.

Any more secrets you care to tell? Like, perhaps, deep down, you were impressed by the TD pass ARE threw vs. the Bengals? (LMAO):lol::nahnah:

jpele
11-17-2010, 06:03 PM
Well I didn't like the Hood pick to begin with I wanted Eben Britton ,so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that he comes around.

Maybe it will turn out like the Timmons pick,I would have taken Anthony Spencer over LT

K Train
11-17-2010, 06:09 PM
Ok, I feel you but I didn't know you were 'kinda' on board.....lol.

Any more secrets you care to tell? Like, perhaps, deep down, you were impressed by the TD pass ARE threw vs. the Bengals? (LMAO):lol::nahnah:

i was kind of on board....i bought into it a little bit just to be disappointed again.

no that was a terrible pass...worse than both of charlie batch's TD to wallace against TB, wallace is just amazing at adjustments

airbrake 1
11-17-2010, 06:23 PM
undetermined...the same people saying hood is a bust are the same people that were calling timmons a bust not so long ago...i think by the end of next season we should have a good idea of what we've got in hood...

K Train
11-17-2010, 06:24 PM
undetermined...the same people saying hood is a bust are the same people that were calling timmons a bust not so long ago...i think by the end of next season we should have a good idea of what we've got in hood...

lets not generalize here....i never called him or timmons a bust, i loved timmons since day one and hated hood since day one...theres a difference.

hood may never be a bust, but that doesnt mean he wont continue to be ineffective in our base 34

harpo
11-17-2010, 06:27 PM
no that was a terrible pass...worse than both of charlie batch's TD to wallace against TB, wallace is just amazing at adjustments

I know, I was just trying to see if you was going to show some love to ARE....lol. :lol:

Goodfrom55
11-17-2010, 08:07 PM
He's gotta play lower and use his hands. DE is not a stat position, but he needs to a better job holding his ground.