PDA

View Full Version : Ben 2-0; Peyton 1-1



BlackGold4vr
02-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Just sayin.....


What does that do to the media's coronation of Manning into the HOF?


Who DAT gonna beat dem Saints? Love it when the experts are all wrong!


:hilarious:

Zachintosh66
02-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Payton is now 9-9 in the playoffs...

Big Ben may not of played well in the Sea game, but he has never thrown a pick 6 to ice his chances...

cmerrifield
02-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Wait it gets better, Peyton 9-9 in the playoffs, Big Ben 8-2

Koopa
02-07-2010, 10:57 PM
regardless of super bowl record....ben is nowhere near the level of manning and never will be

LarryNJ
02-07-2010, 10:57 PM
I thought the Colts would win but the Saints just took it to them. Hats off to them they deserve the huge party that is sure to follow. Brees was awesome and Manning made that 1 big mistake. There's no doubt Peyton is a HOF QB, the question is will Brees be?

BlackGold4vr
02-07-2010, 10:59 PM
regardless of super bowl record....ben is nowhere near the level of manning and never will be


Bradshaw was never as good a passer as Dan Marino either.


Bradshaw 4-0 in Superbowls

Marino 0-1

Guess that doesn't really mean too much!

steelerfan11
02-07-2010, 11:06 PM
regardless of super bowl record....ben is nowhere near the level of manning and never will be

yep you are right...ben will never be as good as Peyton in the regular season...but Peyton will never be as good as Ben in the playoffs!

K Train
02-07-2010, 11:06 PM
peyton is a much better passer than ben, hell eli is a much better passer than ben. peyton doesnt have "it" though, he lacks clutchness at all, his failures continue he needs to thank grossman for handing the colts that game a few years ago

Koopa
02-07-2010, 11:07 PM
Bradshaw was never as good a passer as Dan Marino either.


Bradshaw 4-0 in Superbowls

Marino 0-1

Guess that doesn't really mean too much!

it's all about who's on your team...... if you base it off a team record then yeah go bradshaw.....but as individual players marino is better....just like here....as a team the steelers were better then the colts two super bowl teams..... however as individual players..... ben will never be on the level of manning......

Scorp
02-07-2010, 11:15 PM
it's all about who's on your team...... if you base it off a team record then yeah go bradshaw.....but as individual players marino is better....just like here....as a team the steelers were better then the colts two super bowl teams..... however as individual players..... ben will never be on the level of manning......

ben will never be on the level of manning...of course not because ben's pedestal is higher than mannings. F-uck the colts.

K Train
02-07-2010, 11:19 PM
ben will never be on the level of manning...of course not because ben's pedestal is higher than mannings. F-uck the colts.

you are the reason why i have to fight off homer steeler fan stereotypes

BlackGold4vr
02-07-2010, 11:25 PM
it's all about who's on your team...... if you base it off a team record then yeah go bradshaw.....but as individual players marino is better....just like here....as a team the steelers were better then the colts two super bowl teams..... however as individual players..... ben will never be on the level of manning......

I agree with you both. I just love when the guy the media slobbers all over comes up short. Just like the year the perfect Patriots lost to the Giants. I was almost as happy as when the Steelers win. :lol:

steelersbabex25
02-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Winning the superbowl is what NFL players fight for for their entire careers. Peyton Manning has been in the NFL for what, 10 years now? 11? And he has one superbowl. Ben's been in the NFL for 5 and he's got 2. Doesn't matter how good you are if you choke once you get to the superbowl. Yeah, Peyton Manning is better than Ben, there's no denying that. He has more experience, he has better stats, whatever you wanna call it. But Ben has what it takes to carry his team all the way when he gets the chance, and Peyton has shown here that he clearly can't carry the load..(most of the time.)

acero
02-07-2010, 11:32 PM
yep you are right...ben will never be as good as Peyton in the regular season...but Peyton will never be as good as Ben in the playoffs!

yes ben is the better qb, considering the hits ben takes ben is a much better QB

Big T
02-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB of all-time....Ben isn't even in that conversation...maybe by the time he retires he will be top 10 but he is in no way in the conversation for best QB of all-time...

Peyton Manning > Ben Roethlisberger....

I love Ben but there's no debating that ^^^

SnakeEyes43
02-08-2010, 12:09 AM
Ben is nowhere near the level of Peyton? Didn't they both have like some of the best completion percentage and QB ratings in the league this year? Peyton is a better throwing QB, but Ben not being anywhere close to him....I disagree. They are both great, in their own way. Two different styles for two awesome QBs. Ben's got two rings to prove that he is on any QBs level. Period.

DanRooney
02-08-2010, 12:12 AM
it's all about who's on your team...... if you base it off a team record then yeah go bradshaw.....but as individual players marino is better....just like here....as a team the steelers were better then the colts two super bowl teams..... however as individual players..... ben will never be on the level of manning......

Really? You're still pulling that card?

Manning's arsenal over the past 5 years
-Marvin Harrison (1st round pick)
-Reggie Wayne (1st round pick)
-Anthony Gonzalez (1st round pick)
-Dallas Clark (1st round pick)
-Joseph Addai (1st round pick)
-Donald Brown (1st round pick)
-Bob Sanders (1st round pick)
-Dwight Freeney (1st round pick) *
-Robert Mathis

Not to mention an all-pro o-line that hardly gets Peyton hit. And please don't pull the "its because Peyton gets rid of the ball so fast" routine.

Maybe it's because while Peyton is one of the greatest QBs of all time, he's also one of the most pedestrian in the playoffs. Quit blaming his team.

*denotes a player who fakes injuries

K Train
02-08-2010, 12:19 AM
Really? You're still pulling that card?

Manning's arsenal over the past 5 years
-Marvin Harrison (1st round pick)
-Reggie Wayne (1st round pick)
-Anthony Gonzalez (1st round pick)
-Dallas Clark (1st round pick)
-Joseph Addai (1st round pick)
-Donald Brown (1st round pick)
-Bob Sanders (1st round pick)
-Dwight Freeney (1st round pick) *
-Robert Mathis

Not to mention an all-pro o-line that hardly gets Peyton hit. And please don't pull the "its because Peyton gets rid of the ball so fast" routine.

Maybe it's because while Peyton is one of the greatest QBs of all time, he's also one of the most pedestrian in the playoffs. Quit blaming his team.

*denotes a player who fakes injuries

yeah, this


i like abou 5 QBs over peyton just because hes a failure....hes a brilliant passer though

Big T
02-08-2010, 12:24 AM
*denotes a player who fakes injuries

also denotes arguably the most dominant defensive end in the NFL....

SnakeEyes43
02-08-2010, 12:37 AM
also denotes arguably the most dominant defensive end in the NFL....

That didn't matter tonight.... :lol:

K Train
02-08-2010, 12:38 AM
also denotes arguably the most dominant defensive end in the NFL....

not even close to being true

Scorp
02-08-2010, 01:26 AM
yes ben is the better qb, considering the hits ben takes ben is a much better QB

I agree. Ben is an all around qb to me. Some of you might think i'm crazy, but that's how i see him. No qb is perfect. You're going to take hits, throw some int's, win, lose and win some championships as well. I'm am not a fan of stats or who holds the most records for td's or passing yards. Championships are what matter to me. And yes, you can still be great no matter how many ya got.

Forged in Steel
02-08-2010, 01:28 AM
yep you are right...ben will never be as good as Peyton in the regular season...but Peyton will never be as good as Ben in the playoffs!

Regular season wins < Playoff wins (if your team makes it).

cmerrifield
02-08-2010, 07:39 AM
Listen, I think Manning is an amazing QB, but even in college he couldnt win the big game. The Colts of the 2000's are like the Braves of the 90's win even division and have only one world series to show for it. I am a fan of the Braves and let me tell you, thats painful. Anyway, the Colts have more wins in the 2000's then any other team, but to only have one SuperBowl means something is wrong. Ben's teams that won, werent necassarily better than the COlts teams. I do not think Ben has the work ethic that Peyton does, nor the talent in all honesty. However, Ben KNOWS how to win games, especially playoff games, and that is what makes Ben a step above Peyton.

BlackGold4vr
02-08-2010, 09:14 AM
The pick-6 was all Peytons. You can't blame that loss on anybody else but Peyton. Up until that point they were still in the game. :yesnod:

Sir Blitzelot
02-08-2010, 09:16 AM
It is quite difficult to compare Manning to Roethlisberger, its really apples and oranges. Peyton Manning has always had great numbers and stats, but it's obvious that he struggles in clutch situations. Roethlisberger is the complete opposite, he may not have the best numbers, but the guy is absolute money when the game is on the line.

In my mind, last night's game only confirmed that Peyton Manning still has a long way to go to be considered "the best ever". :2cents:

LatrobePA
02-08-2010, 10:21 AM
You know what they say "Stats are for losers" Peyton looks better on paper but where is he today??

But the truth is, at least he was in the SB and not at home all post season....Just sayin!

A Pac
02-08-2010, 10:28 AM
comparing ben and peyton is ridiculous. they are two different types of qb's. peyton is a statue who completely dissects defenses and ben is a scrambler who relies on his receivers getting open on their own. peyton is much better at reading defenses and knows what they are going to do a lot of the time. ben can read a defense and can audible but is nowhere near the level of peyton.

also, if the colts ever had a defense like the steelers, indianapolis would have 4 or 5 superbowls under manning. they are an offense based team and concentrates on that side of the ball most of the time. they are two different systems and two entirely different quarterbacks. if you took a poll asking people who they would rather have, it would overwhelmingly be peyton.

--- Added 2/8/2010 at 08:28 AM ---


The pick-6 was all Peytons. You can't blame that loss on anybody else but Peyton. Up until that point they were still in the game. :yesnod:

agreed, but how many times can you say that about ben in the regular season? throughout ben's career there have been plenty of plays that ben has tried to force or times that he hung onto the ball too long. every qb makes mistakes and costs their team games sooner or later. peyton just happened to do it on the biggest stage.

K Train
02-08-2010, 10:31 AM
ben has balls and hes reckless, but hes incredible outside the pocket and under pressure....not just big game pressure but actual pass rushing pressure. peyton is a pussy, he never gets touched, he blames his team when they lose....very talented passer, but may just be remembered as that. the greatest fantasy football QB ever, but average at best when it matters

steelcitysfinestXL
02-08-2010, 10:34 AM
not even close to being true
:plus1: Yeah maybe he is... if you only watch AFC south divisional games! Dude is top 5 but how do you argue w/ D-Ware!!!


It is quite difficult to compare Manning to Roethlisberger, its really apples and oranges. Peyton Manning has always had great numbers and stats, but it's obvious that he struggles in clutch situations. Roethlisberger is the complete opposite, he may not have the best numbers, but the guy is absolute money when the game is on the line.

In my mind, last night's game only confirmed that Peyton Manning still has a long way to go to be considered "the best ever". :2cents:

I agree with ALMOST everything you said! Thats a comparison thats never gonna be desided evenly! Manning is gonna end up owning almost every CAREER Passing record there is! But 1-1 in SB's and a .500 playoff record says alot! With Brady playing in the same era and having won 3... Plus Ben probley winning 3 or 4 (hopefully) in the end of the Manning era... Peyton, to me is a BIT tarnished!

But, Marino NEVER won one and he is considered by some as "THE BEST" purely by numbers and NO ring IMO Montana gets the Nod for 4 super bowls and 3 SBMVPs. I also like Elway (in my generation atleast) because of the way he did what he did! (Very Ben-like!) Plus 2 rings!

Canton is created for guys like Marino and Manning. You have to get some type of HIGH praise for putting up great numbers... but IMO rings AND numbers matter when you wanna talk about great! All-in-All i think Manning will and should go down as the greatest (when he retires). One ring and those numbers are enough!!!

BlackGold4vr
02-08-2010, 10:41 AM
ben has balls and hes reckless, but hes incredible outside the pocket and under pressure....not just big game pressure but actual pass rushing pressure. peyton is a pussy, he never gets touched, he blames his team when they lose....very talented passer, but may just be remembered as that. the greatest fantasy football QB ever, but average at best when it matters


:plus1:

Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Warren Moon

All prolific passers whose names are all through the record books but nary a championship between them. It takes more than accurate passing to win championships.

K Train
02-08-2010, 10:52 AM
peyton has fantasy football hall of fame written all over him and obviously canton because he will hold most passing records when its all said and done....i really wish the bears werent so terrible back in 06 and grossman didnt hand the colts the game to get the monkey off peytons back, the monkey that is obviously still there.

his resume is impressive number wise no doubt but when it comes down to it he had a chance, a pretty good chance to tie/win that game and he blew it and no one will remember that record 93 yard drive and some perfect passes along the way, but everyone will remember tracy porter holding the ball up on his way back from a 70 yard pick 6

LatrobePA
02-08-2010, 10:58 AM
Peyton is a pussy for sure! The "my **** don't stink" look on his face entering the stadium will have a lasting memory!!

Today is a wake up call for him and the Colt! Should of went for the perfect season, what did you have to lose??? Oh yea the Super bowl!

BlackGold4vr
02-08-2010, 12:00 PM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/p_manning_100207_300.jpg

You have to respect their consistent ability to maintain elite status. You have to salute them for the way they've overcome coaching and roster changes to stay on top in the standings.

But you can't help but wonder whether one of the NFL's top teams of the decade is truly built for only one thing: Regular-season success.

Let's face it, a single Super Bowl victory isn't much to show for a team that has gone seven consecutive years with 12 or more wins in the regular season.

And to get there only twice in that stretch and for the second time to end the way it did Sunday night is, well, more than a little disappointing. It makes all of that fury over the Colts concentrating on preserving starters rather than going for a 16-0 regular season, so that they'd have a shot to be a Super Bowl winner, seem so silly now.

"On behalf of the Colts and our team, we're very disappointed and we're sorry to our fans," Peyton Manning said after the Colts' 31-17 loss to the New Orleans Saints in Super Bowl XLIV.

"I'm very sorry to our fans that we weren't able to get it done."


The last statement from Peyton pretty much sums it up!

:clap:

Black@Gold Forever32
02-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Ok.....Ben Roethlisberger will never be on Peyton Manning's level when it comes to being a pure pocket passer.........But Ben is better then Manning outside of the pocket and handling a pressure situations in post-season play and handling pressure in the terms of dealing with a pass rush..........Both are two different QB's and really makes it hard to compare the two.......

I'm just tired of hearing all of the excuses for Manning for yet another choke job and Ben not getting any credit for being better then Manning in the post-season......I don't want to hear about Ben having a superior team.......Manning has always had elite offensive talent around him....Plus in 2006 it was the Colts defense and running game that finally got the Colts over the hump and not Manning........Manning had 3 TD's passes and 7 INT's that post-season.....Everybody always mentions Big Ben's terrible Super Bowl XL performance.....But Ben had a great post-season overall (Ben had 7 TD's and 3 INT's)......Ben didn't have the over all numbers in last years post-season but Ben would have had over 300 yards passing in the AFC title game if it wasn't for Sweed's huge drop........But responded when he had to in Super Bowl XLIII and leading the Steelers for the game winning TD which Manning couldn't do last night when the Colts needed him most for the game tying TD......

Another point to make Peyton Manning wouldn't last behind the Steelers OL.....Of course Mannning has a much quicker release then Ben and would get rid of the ball faster but Manning couldn't last with the constant pressure then Ben deals with.....Plus I couldn't see Manning being as accurate playing most of his game outside at Heinz Field......Manning has played his home games in a dome.....I know Lucas Oil Stadium has a retractable roof but the Colts have the roof closed when the weather is foul.......

Ben has proven he can put up stats and has proven to be clutch......So I don't care if he is never on Peyton's level when it comes to being a pure QB.......I'll take number 7 since he is younger and is the best play-making QB in the NFL period.......

I just love the fact I get to rub it in that Peyton failed yet again when his team needed him most but Ben responded last year when his team needed him most.....

75Steeler
02-08-2010, 12:13 PM
Ben and Manning both have their positive points and their negative points. Ben is one of the best in the NFL under pressure and getting out of trouble. Manning is much more accurate in his passing game. Ben takes chances and sometimes it pays off. Sometimes it hurts us too. I'd take Ben in a Super Bowl over Manning any day.

K Train
02-08-2010, 01:26 PM
The last statement from Peyton pretty much sums it up!

:clap:

thats not how he used to be though, ive seen him throw his entire team, oline and defense specifically under a bus.

ben takes all te blame and gives out all the credit...its all bs but peyton takes all the glory and no blame, at least he didnt used to.

steelersbabex25
02-08-2010, 01:27 PM
ben has balls and hes reckless, but hes incredible outside the pocket and under pressure....not just big game pressure but actual pass rushing pressure. peyton is a pussy, he never gets touched, he blames his team when they lose....very talented passer, but may just be remembered as that. the greatest fantasy football QB ever, but average at best when it matters

I totally agree with this. Give pretty much any "good" quarterback in the NFL the offensive line that Ben has had to deal with over the last 2 or 3 years, they'd be running around like a chicken with its head cut off. When you have one of the best offensive line and recieving corps in the game, it's hard not to be great.

BlackGold4vr
02-08-2010, 01:56 PM
thats not how he used to be though, ive seen him throw his entire team, oline and defense specifically under a bus.


He couldn't throw his team under the bus this time. It was his own mistake that cost his team the game. His teamates don't dare point any fingers of blame at the "annointed one" or they will find themselves on the first bus out of town. It is funny that he uses the word "we" and not "I" "didn't get the job done". :lol:

Black@Gold Forever32
02-08-2010, 02:12 PM
He couldn't throw his team under the bus this time. It was his own mistake that cost his team the game. His teamates don't dare point any fingers of blame at the "annointed one" or they will find themselves on the first bus out of town. It is funny that he uses the word "we" and not "I" "didn't get the job done". :lol:

4ver I'm here in Indiana and all the talk from the Colts fans here it was Wayne's fault.....lol Colts fans never blame Manning for anything.....Everytime he throws an INT it always the WR's fault.....lol Even when Marvin Harrison was on the Colts.....lol The excuse machine is in full effect here in Indiana.....lol

SteelerSteve
02-08-2010, 03:56 PM
peyton is a much better passer than ben, hell eli is a much better passer than ben. peyton doesnt have "it" though, he lacks clutchness at all, his failures continue he needs to thank grossman for handing the colts that game a few years ago
Well, Peyton is easily a better passer than Ben, but I can say without homerism that I dont think that Eli is. At least not consistently

K Train
02-08-2010, 04:27 PM
eli and rivers are both better passers than ben, ben is reckless, he throws off his back foot across his body and does basically everything QBs are taught not to...eli and rivers and manning are all by the book QBs

Zachintosh66
02-08-2010, 04:28 PM
Well, Peyton is easily a better passer than Ben, but I can say without homerism that I dont think that Eli is. At least not consistently

i agree totally BUT, Eli has played with a better D than payton ever has and has had way less O weapons than his brother...

I still think Payton is better than Eli, but i wonder if Eli had some weapons, how big their gap would be.

LatrobePA
02-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Eli is a goofball, I'd say all the weapons in the world wouldn't help...

Textbook QB's are boring and overrated! I'd much rather have a QB run around and make crazy throws, makes it more exciting!!

K Train
02-08-2010, 04:36 PM
he also has had a hell of a running game, but eli is a good QB....not on bens level imo but a franchise QB nonetheless.

peyton is a prolific passer, he threw some brilliant passes yesterday and hes a student of the game, a master of reading defenses....however ben will never study like peyton but i dont mind a QB that goes out and chucks the ball around making risky throws and moving around trying to find the big play....it works, its a mentality thing, ben puts himself in situations that he refuses to lose.

if you looked at bens final drive in the superbowl you say wow....that man is incredible, when the lights were the brightest he didnt even sweat.

peytons last drive, he throws a 70 yard pick 6 instead of tying the game up

not trying to take one drive to define a career but i know who i would want in the situation

LarryNJ
02-08-2010, 04:54 PM
Ben has a long way to go to be in Peytons class. 2 SB wins one being in spite of Ben not because of Ben just doesn't cut it.

That being said Peyton's mistake yesterday dropped him down the ladder. Montana still won 4 rings and threw 0 ints in those 4 games. Nothing short of amazing. One day maybe Ben will be in that conversation but now is not the time. Unless of course you're on a Steeler fan site! :lol:

LatrobePA
02-08-2010, 05:29 PM
I could give a crap less if Ben is included in those talks, means absolutely nothing! How many years in a row have the Colts been to the playoffs??? Lots, how many rings??? This proves Peyton and company are regular season experts, that's it!

At least the handful of times Ben has been in the playoffs we've won the trophy...At the end of the day that is all that matters (to me at least) you can wipe your *** with the stats Peyton had compiled, doesn't mean a damn thing, other than the fact he's a choke artist...

Black@Gold Forever32
02-08-2010, 05:41 PM
The Manning era Colts are the 1990's Atlanta Braves of the NFL.........lol

--- Added 2/8/2010 at 03:41 PM ---


Ben has a long way to go to be in Peytons class. 2 SB wins one being in spite of Ben not because of Ben just doesn't cut it.

That being said Peyton's mistake yesterday dropped him down the ladder. Montana still won 4 rings and threw 0 ints in those 4 games. Nothing short of amazing. One day maybe Ben will be in that conversation but now is not the time. Unless of course you're on a Steeler fan site! :lol:

Ben stunk in Super Bowl XL no doubt but was lights out in three play-off games before Super Bowl XL and really was the biggest reason the Steelers reached the Super Bowl......I don't say they won in spite of him......He played a bad game but he was due for a bad one and he was only in his second year.....

Comparing both Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger is really tough since their styles are so different......Manning classic pure pocket passer.....Ben is great out of the pocket and lives for the big play to much......But he has made huge stride as a pocket passer.......I agree Ben will never be the pocket passer Manning is and won't sniff the alltime records Manning is going to break......But I do think Ben has proven to be the better post-season QB and is better in the clutch then Manning.......Big Ben hasn't peaked yet.....

BlitzburghRockCity
02-08-2010, 05:45 PM
We're comparing Apples to Oranges here IMO. Two totally different styles of play, 2 different ways to accomplish the same common goal. I do think Arians likes having an offense similar to what the Colts run, which is a past first type of deal and then run when you have too. Like 32 and others said, Ben will never see the records that Manning has set or will set when it's all said and done, but in the postseason when it really counts, Ben has been a winner.

Honestly, we all know Manning is probably going to go down as the best QB ever, and rightfully so. The guy calls all his own plays, knows exactly what to do in any situation, and rarely makes the big mistake. Having said that, he'd never last in our offense, we're built too much to roll Ben out and makes plays on the move, Peyton would get crushed if he stood in our pocket every week.

cmerrifield
02-08-2010, 05:46 PM
eli and rivers are both better passers than ben, ben is reckless, he throws off his back foot across his body and does basically everything QBs are taught not to...eli and rivers and manning are all by the book QBs

According to NFL.com Eli has more picks, less touchdowns, less yards, lower completion rate and has fumbled more and lost more balls. I hardly think you can say he is better than Ben as a passer.

K Train
02-08-2010, 05:48 PM
According to NFL.com Eli has more picks, less touchdowns, less yards, lower completion rate and has fumbled more and lost more balls. I hardly think you can say he is better than Ben as a passer.

thats fine, i didnt pull out stats....but i would never ask eli to do the things ben does, hes definitely a by the book QB and he IS better when it comes to raw mechanics and form, ben is just better even though he does it his own way. you might have took my statement wrong

cmerrifield
02-08-2010, 05:50 PM
thats fine, i didnt pull out stats....but i would never ask eli to do the things ben does, hes definitely a by the book QB and he IS better when it comes to raw mechanics and form, ben is just better even though he does it his own way. you might have took my statement wrong

I may have misunderstood, yes I will agree Eli is the more traditional and mechanically sound QB.

SteelerSteve
02-08-2010, 05:54 PM
eli and rivers are both better passers than ben, ben is reckless, he throws off his back foot across his body and does basically everything QBs are taught not to...eli and rivers and manning are all by the book QBsOnce again, I wont argue that Rivers is a better "passer" than Ben, but I still dont see any proof that Eli is. He might be a more "by the book qb" but does that make him a better passer? I dont think so, Ben showed this season, especially in the Packers game that he can take over a game with his passing, though the packers defense did look pretty ******, I think he has a better arm than either Eli or Rivers, I saw one throw in that game where he put the ball over 70 yards and hit the receiver in stride with the ball only spending a couple of seconds in the air. Add that with a much better career qb rating, and I think he also has a much better completion percentage than Eli, I am pretty firm in saying that although he may be not as text book as eli, but is overall better in pretty much every area than little manning. Ben actually has progressed alot in terms of passing ability the last few seasons and I think he will probably continue to do so.

--- Added 2/8/2010 at 03:54 PM ---


thats fine, i didnt pull out stats....but i would never ask eli to do the things ben does, hes definitely a by the book QB and he IS better when it comes to raw mechanics and form, ben is just better even though he does it his own way. you might have took my statement wrong
I didn't see this post before my reply, yeah agree, eli might have better mechanics, but I think ben is a better passer despite doing it his way

MattyVfromCT
02-08-2010, 08:16 PM
peyton is a much better passer than ben, hell eli is a much better passer than ben. peyton doesnt have "it" though, he lacks clutchness at all, his failures continue he needs to thank grossman for handing the colts that game a few years ago

excuse me? i could agree with peyton being a better passer than ben but eli!? no. not even close. i live in connecticut. i see giants games all the time and most of my frieds are giants fans. they all can't stand manning and wish they had ben. eli isn't very accurate. he has shown flashes of brilliance but for the most part is inconsistent. his playoff loss to the eagles in 2008 was pathetic. every pass he threw was a wounded duck. another thing to consider. he isn't the same qb without plaxm whereas ben only got better without plax

K Train
02-08-2010, 08:28 PM
excuse me? i could agree with peyton being a better passer than ben but eli!? no. not even close. i live in connecticut. i see giants games all the time and most of my frieds are giants fans. they all can't stand manning and wish they had ben. eli isn't very accurate. he has shown flashes of brilliance but for the most part is inconsistent. his playoff loss to the eagles in 2008 was pathetic. every pass he threw was a wounded duck. another thing to consider. he isn't the same qb without plaxm whereas ben only got better without plax
everyone would prefer ben, you are missing my point...ben is a better QB than peyton despite peyton being a prolific passer, he doesnt have the fundamentals that eli has, by no means am i calling eli better, im saying ben being so reckless and rough with his technique is what keeps him out of the peyton/brady discussion...all ben knows how to do it win, when hes in the game his technique goes out the window making him have some not so desirable games. everyone needs to chill lol, eli is a ri-tard. i know that, hes still a decent QB and good passer

MattyVfromCT
02-08-2010, 09:29 PM
everyone would prefer ben, you are missing my point...ben is a better QB than peyton despite peyton being a prolific passer, he doesnt have the fundamentals that eli has, by no means am i calling eli better, im saying ben being so reckless and rough with his technique is what keeps him out of the peyton/brady discussion...all ben knows how to do it win, when hes in the game his technique goes out the window making him have some not so desirable games. everyone needs to chill lol, eli is a ri-tard. i know that, hes still a decent QB and good passer


like i said i disagree about eli only. especially in regards to "form and technique". my giant fan buddies agree as well. i see a lot of giants games up here. he isn't very accurate. and i'm not bringing up stats either. i'm speaking on what i see and what giant fans i know say. when plax was still on the team, eli would frequently overthrow him while he was wide open. on many occasions he would throw passes that would make plax have to jump very high to get, and a lot of them, even plax couldn't get, despite being 6 foot 5. eli is more of a pocket passer than ben for sure, but his mechanics are flawed. not attacking you dude, just bringing up what i see

LarryNJ
02-08-2010, 09:29 PM
But I do think Ben has proven to be the better post-season QB and is better in the clutch then Manning...

:yellowthumb:

Let's ask this question:

2 minutes left in the Super Bowl you're trailing by 5 with 80 yards to go who do you want as your QB?

My list:

1- Montana
2- Elway
3- Brady
4- Ben
5- ??? Steve Young?

lloydfan4life
02-08-2010, 10:27 PM
Call me a homer if you want, and a lot of you have made some really good points and arguments, but the bottom line here is at the end of the day the game is played to win championships.... not accumulate stats or have the better passing mechanics.

Ben = 2
Peyton = 1
Eli = 1

:dunno: You do the math.

Game on the line Ben throws game winner to Tone.
Game on the line Peyton throws pick-6.

Right now the only current QB I would rate over Ben is Brady... even though it pains me to say that.

K Train
02-08-2010, 10:35 PM
brady is about as mobile as a illegitimate love child between drew bledsoe and an ice glacier....he would die behind our line

i agree, give me ben any day over anyone right now, im no homer, i just mean that...could you imagine ben behind a brick wall of a line at this stage in his career? hed still probably roll to the left and hold the ball too long but damn hed make magic doing it

Troyisabeast_43
02-09-2010, 12:19 AM
The only thing better then the Patriots and Brady losing in the Super Bowl is Manning and the Colts losing the Super Bowl. I didnot want to see Peyton Manning and the Colts do what the Steelers just did and that's win 2 Super Bowls in 4 years and I am glad they choked and folded like lawn chairs in their efforts to do so. This was the Colts year if you stop and think about everything. Their schedule was about as easy as it could have gotten,they had a very easy road in the playoffs playing the 5 and 6 seeds in the Ravens and Jets who really werent that much of a threat and they failed to get it done. The Colts while they will still be good next year will not have another dominating year like they did this season. They will not coast through the AFC next season like they did this season it's just too difficult. The odds of the Colts getting back to the Super Bowl next season are highly unlikely because you just do not see teams get to back to back Super Bowls anymore. Since 2003 the AFC representative in the Super Bowl has either been the Patriots,Steelers or the Colts. Five out of those seven years one of those 3 teams has won it. Will the trend continue in the AFC next season?? We shall find out and see...

SteelerSteve
02-09-2010, 02:42 AM
everyone would prefer ben, you are missing my point...ben is a better QB than peyton despite peyton being a prolific passer, he doesnt have the fundamentals that eli has, by no means am i calling eli better, im saying ben being so reckless and rough with his technique is what keeps him out of the peyton/brady discussion...all ben knows how to do it win, when hes in the game his technique goes out the window making him have some not so desirable games. everyone needs to chill lol, eli is a ri-tard. i know that, hes still a decent QB and good passer I would be more inclined to agree if your argument was that Matt Jones is a better passer than Ben

JensK
02-09-2010, 05:04 AM
http://www.heraldstandard.com/news_d...n-manning.html

By Dutch Wydo

It is undoubtedly a very small group that would take Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to lead their team instead of Peyton Manning of the Indianapolis Colts. But even if you do fall into that select group, there is a good chance that you won’t admit it.

After all, admitting such a thing publicly would only invite ridicule. If you live in southwestern Pennsylvania, as I do, you would be considered a homer to state such an opinion. Your credibility would immediately be attacked. You could be chastised, mocked, publicly humiliated, and perhaps even spat upon for considering such argument.

Yet, through it all, the facts are clearly on your side. The following is a question-and-answer exchange I recently had with a Manning backer on this subject. Enjoy!

Manning Backer: You only want to talk about Ben having more rings up to this point. That doesn’t tell the whole story. Ben having more rings has nothing to do with him being better than Manning. Can’t you see this?

Dutch Wydo: Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl victory up to this point because he out-performed Manning at Indianapolis in the 2005 playoffs. Roethlisberger came out throwing and put two early touchdowns on the board and staked his team to what turned out to be an insurmountable 14-point lead. That was the difference in the game and the reason why Ben has one more ring up to this point.

MB: Ok, How many rings do you think Manning would have if he was the quarterback of the Steelers this decade?

DW: Just one. I don’t believe he could have won a Super Bowl behind the current offensive line of the Steelers.

MB: Cmon! Don’t you see that Ben has been in a better situation in Pittsburgh?

DW: Incorrect. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent at running back. He was throwing to guys like Cedric Wilson and Antwaan Randle El. He even had a rookie tight end starting on that ‘05 team. This is hardly Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.

MB: I’m sorry, but you need to consider everything. Just look at the stats. What do the stats tell you?

DW: I’m sorry, but maybe you have not considered everything. What if Roethlisberger had played his home games in a dome? Ben has played seven indoor games and boasts a passer rating of 113. He has 14 TD passes against only five interceptions. Roethlisberger has completed 68 percent of his throws indoors at a majestic 9.4 yards per attempt. Unfortunately, he is stuck playing at Heinz Field and has to endure mud, rain, snow, and wind, along with a revolving set of receivers throughout most of his career. Yeah, great situation! Now, let me ask you a question. If you take both quarterbacks and have to choose one to play a road game, which one would you take?

MB: I think the answer is obvious. I’m taking Manning, as he is superior.

DW: Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Roethlisberger has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Manning has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Your perception that Manning is so superior simply does not equal reality, my friend.

MB: You just don’t get it do you? Ben has had a great running game in place for most of his career.

DW: Edgerrin James rushed for more than 1,500 yards four times throughout his time with Manning and the Colts. Roethlisberger has never had a 1,500-yard running back.

MB: Defense, Defense, Defense, Dutch. Peyton would have won at least three Super Bowls with that Steeler defense. C’mon! Can’t you see this?

DW: In eight post season losses, Manning’s offense averaged just 13 points per game. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Even in two playoff losses to the Patriots and Jaguars, Roethlisberger’s offense was able to put 29 and 27 points, respectively, on the scoreboard.

MB: So you are trying to say that Ben is the reason they won their playoff games?

DW: Roethlisberger has the highest postseason third-down passer rating of 121.5 last five years. Should I credit Dick LeBeau for that? Besides, before this postseason started, Roethlisberger had a better passer rating, more yards per attempt, and a higher completion percentage in the postseason than Manning. You clearly underrate Roethlisberger.

MB: Are you trying to say the Colts defense has been better than the Steelers defense?

DW: No. But Indianapolis’ defense has been the beneficiary of 210 turnovers since 2003. The Steelers defense has collected 190. The Colts are 16-3 over last three seasons when their defense gets two turnovers. The Steelers are 10-4. Getting defensive turnovers can be quite helpful to a quarterback as they will get short fields to work with and convert them into quick scores. This year, the New Orleans Saints averaged 11 points per game off turnovers. The Steelers cornerbacks didn’t have an interception until the final week of the regular season. In fact, the Steelers offense this season projected to score 23.8 points per game based on yards and turnover differential. A lack of defensive turnovers and consistently poor special teams held back a Steeler offense averaging 6.2 yards per play, more than anything else.

MB: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Peyton Manning or Ben.

DW: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Jeff Hartwig or Jeff Saturday?

MB: Dutch, look at how Pierre Garcon has played at wide feceiver this season for the Colts. Don’t you see that is because of Peyton Manning? Peyton Manning makes wide receivers.

DW: Considering the success that Steelers receiver Mike Wallace had this year, the success that Heath Miller had as a rookie, not to mention the performance Santonio Holmes had the last half of 2006. I guess that means Roethlisberger makes wide receivers, too. Also note that Nate Washington averaged 16 yards per reception with Roethlisberger as his quarterback. The averaged fell to twelve per reception this season with the Tennessee Titans. Again, Roethlisberger makes wide receivers.

MB: I think most would agree that Manning is perhaps the greatest quarterback of all time.

DW: To be the best of all time, then you would have to project to be the best in previous generations. Considering that Manning’s offense is built around great timing with his receivers, I’m not convinced he would have able to achieve so much success, say, in the 1970s when his receivers would have had their heads taken off and he was forced to scramble around and make plays. That is not his game. In fact, it wasn’t until Colts General Manager Bill Polian convinced the NFL in 2004 to strictly enforce the five-yard chuck rule so that his boy could get through the playoffs. Roethlisberger is great right now and would have been great in the 1960s or 1970s.

MB: Look at how Manning attacked the Jets backup cornerback when they lost their starting corner to injury. Manning is a student of the game.

DW: Of course. Manning is the only quarterback in the NFL that has the wisdom to immediately go after a back up corner who just came into the game. He’s a genius.

MB: Who do you like in the Super Bowl?

DW: Colts 38-24. It's all about Manning!

Dutch is a sports talk host on wmbs590 radio saturday mornings 9-10 am. You can email Dutch at smartmonies@gmail.com


I think another thing that he does not mention is, that Manning has had probably the best OC in the league, while Ben have been stuck with BA for half of his career.

lloydfan4life
02-09-2010, 08:40 AM
I think another thing that he does not mention is, that Manning has had probably the best OC in the league, while Ben have been stuck with BA for half of his career.

:clap: very nice read. Thanks for posting, JensK!

One other thing he didn't mention is that Ben has much more 'blue collar' in him. Guys grab him by the leg, the arm, the jersey and somehow he still manages to get free and make a play, and the times he doesn't he takes a pounding and gets back up to do it again. Manning hears footsteps and folds into the fetal position like a little girl.

Ben doesn't throw his teammates under the Bus either. Can't say the same for Peyton.

Yeah... I may be in the homer class, but I'm sticking with Ben. :cope:

K Train
02-09-2010, 09:56 AM
I would be more inclined to agree if your argument was that Matt Jones is a better passer than Ben

well matt jones is an athletic phenom, a do-it-all badboy if you will

igor0190
02-09-2010, 10:40 AM
thats not how he used to be though, ive seen him throw his entire team, oline and defense specifically under a bus.

ben takes all te blame and gives out all the credit...its all bs but peyton takes all the glory and no blame, at least he didnt used to.

:plus1:

He threw his O-line under the bus after the Steelers playoff game in 2005. Only reason we didn't see him lay blame this year was because he lost the game all by himself.
Peyton is a big game failure. Was pulled from the championship game in college, and is 9-9 in the NFL playoffs. Like K-Train said. Grossman handed Manning his first superbowl championship. Mannings stats were BAD in that playoff run. His hall of fame credentials will be based on his regular season stats... which is fine by me. But, greatest QB ever? Not even close. The game has changed a lot from when guys like Montana was winning Superbowls. Easier to put up passing stats, imo.

MattyVfromCT
02-09-2010, 05:55 PM
:plus1:

He threw his O-line under the bus after the Steelers playoff game in 2005. Only reason we didn't see him lay blame this year was because he lost the game all by himself.
Peyton is a big game failure. Was pulled from the championship game in college, and is 9-9 in the NFL playoffs. Like K-Train said. Grossman handed Manning his first superbowl championship. Mannings stats were BAD in that playoff run. His hall of fame credentials will be based on his regular season stats... which is fine by me. But, greatest QB ever? Not even close. The game has changed a lot from when guys like Montana was winning Superbowls. Easier to put up passing stats, imo.

exactly. that's why i refuse to call any quarterback from this era the "best ever", even if it was ben putting up manning type numbers. quarterbacks (and receivers) have it so easy these days. defenses can't jam receivers like they used to, they can't hit guys like they used to, the game is very pass-happy nowadays whereas it was run, run, run, run AND THEN pass, years ago. plus manning plays in a dome half the season. like i tell everyone who says ben is overrated, let's see manning or brady put up the numbers they do behind the line we have, with bruce arians as offensive coordinator. then throw in the awful field conditions of heinz field, the bad weather late in the year (brady plays in bad weather BUT gillette stadium is field turf, NOT natural grass) and the fact that we have good receivers, NOT great receivers. hines is old (still very good though), santonio drops easy passes, sweed can't catch anything, etc. we don't have marvin harrison, reggie wayne and dallas clark. we don't have randy moss and wes welker. we have good but not great receivers. oh and i almost forgot, manning and brady ARE NOWHERE NEAR AS MOBILE AS BEN. those statues would get killed with our line. and let's throw in brees. 6' 0" drew brees would be getting his passes tipped at the line of scrimmage frequently with our line. in football, stats are very overrated. they don't tell the whole story

--- Added 2/9/2010 at 03:55 PM ---

[QUOTE=lloydfan4life;333386]:

One other thing he didn't mention is that Ben has much more 'blue collar' in him. Guys grab him by the leg, the arm, the jersey and somehow he still manages to get free and make a play, and the times he doesn't he takes a pounding and gets back up to do it again. Manning hears footsteps and folds into the fetal position like a little girl.

yeah he does lol. manning pulled a jim "chris" everett on a couple occasions this postseason lol. but nobody says anything about it because "he's peyton manning the quarterback god". if any other qb fell into a fetal position without being touched because he was hearing footsteps (as jim everett did in the 89 nfc championship game), they would be called soft by the media. peyton or brady do it and nobody has the balls to criticize them for it. you don't see ben doing that and he gets beat on more than any qb in the league

andyg1984
02-09-2010, 06:26 PM
part of me would rather have A-Rod than Ben or PM next year .. don't get me wrong, i love ben as much as a heterosexual male can - but A Rod is going to be the best QB of the next 10 years imo ..

K Train
02-09-2010, 07:03 PM
part of me would rather have A-Rod than Ben or PM next year .. don't get me wrong, i love ben as much as a heterosexual male can - but A Rod is going to be the best QB of the next 10 years imo ..

you cant be serious

andyg1984
02-09-2010, 08:45 PM
i know, that is what ev1 says - and i understand i don't really have much at this point to back it up .. i am saying 10 years from now he will be considered a better QB than rivers, ben, eli, matt ryan, joe flacco, stafford, sanchez, etc ..

ben is great - probably right behind rivers on that list imo, but a rod is just as good on the move and ben does not have a deep ball that is in the same zip code ..

save this and we will revisit w/ in 2-3 years ..

--- Added 2/9/2010 at 06:45 PM ---

there are also some assumptions regarding longevity behind that too ..

SteelerSteve
02-09-2010, 09:44 PM
part of me would rather have A-Rod than Ben or PM next year .. don't get me wrong, i love ben as much as a heterosexual male can - but A Rod is going to be the best QB of the next 10 years imo ..
I'm not ruling out that Rodgers wont be a good or even great qb....I dont know about best of the next ten years though

LatrobePA
02-09-2010, 10:14 PM
part of me would rather have A-Rod than Ben or PM next year .. don't get me wrong, i love ben as much as a heterosexual male can - but A Rod is going to be the best QB of the next 10 years imo ..

Wow, that's pretty gay dude! A-Rod, I've stepped in lesser piles of **** in my back yard!

andyg1984
02-09-2010, 10:22 PM
not saying he will be the best to have come through over that period .. i am saying that based on the guys that are in the NFL now as young QB's - I say he holds the most promise for cumulative production from 2010-2019 .. not that he will be the most talented .. again, just the most productive over that specific time period i would not DARE to say he is going to be the most talented w/out a doubt - but he could be .. maybe i am a little biased - have him in a fantasy keeper league ..

K Train
02-09-2010, 10:26 PM
hes good, but hes far from great

andyg1984
02-09-2010, 10:27 PM
i do think he is the most talented out of all the young guys now tho

NYCsteelersfan
02-10-2010, 12:23 AM
regardless of super bowl record....ben is nowhere near the level of manning and never will be

If he has another great playoff run and another great Superbowl with the win then he will officially be better than Manning according to my criteria for judging a player/QB.

Manning isn't simply 9-9 in the playoffs; in his 9 losses his QB rating is 71.9. In 8 of his worst playoff games he has a QB rating of 58.8 and in the other 10 games his QB rating was 95.8. And in the one year he won the Superbowl his QB rating was 68.1. These are all simply disasterous numbers and they do not lie. They show that he has been well below average in their playoff losses. He has been downright awful in 8 out of 18 games. And even the year he won the Superbowl and received a media-influenced, frivolous Superbowl MVP just like his brother did the year prior, his QB rating was a dispicable 68.1 for that entire playoff run.

What good are regular season stat-padding numbers if they end up resulting in S@#T in the post-season? I much rather have a QB who puts up modest, but solid numbers in the regular season and then turns it up to excellence in the post-season. 8W-2L, 78.6 QB rating in his 2 losses, 59.4 QB rating in his 4 worst games, which were the only 4 games he posted a QB rating less than 84. His other 6 games he posted a QB rating of 107.5

The first year he won the SB his QB rating for the entire run was 97.8, which includes his disaster 22.6 in the Superbowl, showing how good he was in the prior 3 games. His QB rating for his second Superbowl run was 92.1

The numerical evidence is powerful and undeniable. The individual skill sets for the position are meaningless if the QB can't bring them all together when it counts the most and Manning fails to bring them together more times than not when it counts the most while Roethlisberger succeeds more times than not when it counts the most.


hell eli is a much better passer than ben.

Yes he is, in Bizzaro world.

LatrobePA
02-10-2010, 09:55 AM
At the end of the day who has 2 rings and who has 1 and the losing pick 6? Should regular season records matter? Sure Peyton is an all around better QB, but who wins the important games is what I care about!

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 12:55 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/polian-says-offensive-line-was-outplayed-pretty-decisively/


so bill polian decided to do what peyton did after losing to the steelers in the 2005 divisional round. BLAME THE O-LINE. lol. oh i see. it's never manning's fault when they lose yet when they win it's all because of him, despite the fact that he was mediocre in the playoffs the year they actually won the super bowl. and it's especially hilarious considering that ben won the super bowl with a downright pathetic offensive line. i don't want to hear the o-line excuse from the colts. when your line is anywhere near as bad as pittsburgh's, then you can talk. and i don't want to hear about the steeler defense. they got shredded for 407 yards of total offense and they blew a 20-7 lead with under 3 minutes to go. our first play on the game winning drive was a holding penalty that made it 88 yards to go. and we all know the rest. peyton can have his stats. i wouldn't take him over ben any day. ben is more clutch, much better in the postseason, doesn't throw teammates under the bus, and NEVER walks off the field without congratulating opponents in defeat.

igor0190
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
If you want to read something that puts how bad Manning is in clutch situations read this:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=261&Category=7

Here are a couple points from the article. Better to read the whole thing though.


College:
In Manning’s junior season, he cost his team an SEC title and a shot at a national championship when he tossed four interceptions in a 35-29 loss to Florida. In Manning’s senior season, 1997, he took an undefeated Tennessee team into Florida for a shot at the SEC title, the national title and the Heisman Trophy. Manning threw two interceptions as Florida won, 33-20.

Any remaining dignity among Tennessee fans was wiped away in the January 1998 Orange Bowl. Tennessee entered the game 11-1 and No. 3 in the country but was hammered, 42-17, by Nebraska. Manning completed 21 of 31 passes for 134 yards and 1 INT. He ended the game on the bench and was replaced by quarterback Tee Martin, who drove Tennessee to its final touchdown. The following season, with Manning in the NFL, Martin led Tennessee to a 13-0 record and the undisputed national title.

1999 – In Manning’s second year in the league he led the Colts to a 13-3 record and an AFC East title while averaging 26.4 PPG in the regular season. In Indy’s first playoff game the Colts hosted wildcard-game winner Tennessee. The Indy defense played well, surrendering just 19 points to a solid offense that averaged 24.5 points per game. But Manning, at home in the dome, put just 16 points on the board, the team’s third lowest output of the season, while completing just 19 of 43 passes for 227 yards and zero touchdowns. Manning’s 60.9 passer rating was his lowest of the entire season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 19-16.

2000 – The Colts went 10-6 behind Manning’s 33 touchdown passes and an offense that averaged 26.8 PPG in the regular season. Indy went to Miami in the wildcard round and its defense played very well, intercepting Jay Fiedler three times and surrendering just 23 points in a game decided in overtime. But Manning struggled against the Dolphins and, in a game that lasted more than 70 minutes, was a non-factor. He completed barely 50 percent of his passes (17 for 32) for just 194 yards and a touchdown. The Colts generated 11 points off Fiedler’s interceptions but put a total of just 17 on the board, 10 points fewer than their regular-season average. It was Indy’s second lowest scoring output of the season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 23-17, in overtime.

2002 – The Colts went 10-6 and drew a gimme in the wildcard round: a 9-7 Jets team with a paper-thin defense that surrendered 336 points that year (Indy boasted the better D, surrendering 313 points). Manning played the single worst statistical game of his entire career (14 for 31, 137 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs and a career-low 31.2 passer rating) and failed to put a single point on the board. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 41-0.

2003 – The Colts went 12-4 in the regular season and scored 27.9 PPG. Manning kept it going in Indy’s first two playoff games and was spectacular leading 41-10 and 38-31 victories over Denver and Kansas City. But Manning, facing foul weather and a good defense, returned to his historic postseason form in the AFC title game against New England. Indy’s D again played well under postseason pressure, stifling the Patriots in the red zone and forcing them to settle for five field goals. But Manning tossed four interceptions and posted the third lowest passer rating of his entire career (35.5). Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 24-14.

2004 – The Colts again went 12-4 in the regular season, this time scoring 522 points (32.6 PPG) and entering the playoffs a seemingly unstoppable offensive juggernaut with the fifth-highest scoring offense in NFL history. Manning, of course, set numerous regular season records. Most notably, he tossed 49 touchdown passes while shattering the single-season passer rating record, with a mark of 121.1. It all took a familiar turn for the worse in the playoffs. In a divisional game at New England, the Colts mustered just 3 points – their lowest offensive output since the 2002 playoff loss to the Jets. Once again, Manning played his very worst game of the season in the playoffs, completing 27 of 42 passes for 238 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT and a passer rating of 69.3, his lowest of the year. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 20-3.

THE 'TALENT' ISSUE
Indianapolis might have a better shot at winning a Super Bowl should it put more emphasis on defense. But the organization has made a strategic decision to sacrifice defense in an effort to surround Manning with the greatest talent possible and to sell tickets to a fan base that desires high-scoring games. In fact, according to salary-cap gurus such as Peter King of Sports Illustrated, no team in the NFL has a greater imbalance between the money spent on offense and the money spent on defense. This imbalance was only furthered in recent years, as Manning was signed to a preposterous $98 million deal and wide receiver Marvin Harrison inked a $67 million contract extension. In the salary-cap era, every dollar given to one player on offense is one dollar taken out of the pocket of a player on defense.

It’s a strategy that seems to have Manning’s full support. In fact, in the 2001 draft, Manning lobbied the team to select wide receiver Reggie Wayne of Miami in the first round despite the fact that the Indy offense already featured a future Hall of Fame receiving talent in Harrison and despite the fact that the porous Indy defense surrendered 20.4 PPG in 2000. (The Indy offense averaged 26.8 PPG in 2000.)

Manning, himself a No. 1 draft pick, was surrounded by top-pick talent in 2004 at
*wide receiver (Wayne, Harrison)
* tight end (Dallas Clark)
* running back (Edgerrin James) and
* offensive tackle (Tarik Glenn).

Of course, we welcome any stat-filled counter-arguments. Just don’t bother us with puffball opinions. They won’t hold any weight under the jackhammer of Cold, Hard Football Facts we just used to rip up the public’s perception of the superiority of Manning."

xxxsteelernation
02-11-2010, 01:45 PM
regardless of super bowl record....ben is nowhere near the level of manning and never will be

it's really not even fair to compare ben to manning. colts playcalling is primarly passing as opposed to steelers who for the most of ben's career has been a primarly run playbook.

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 05:52 PM
it's really not even fair to compare ben to manning. colts playcalling is primarly passing as opposed to steelers who for the most of ben's career has been a primarly run playbook.

not to mention the fact that manning has had a much superior o-line most of his career than ben. plus superior receivers, a much, much, much superior offensive coordinator, and let's not forget, HE PLAYS IN A DOME ON AN ARTIFICIAL SURFACE. his receivers are already better, then throw in that the artificial surface makes their speed and cutting ability very deadly as opposed to the awful natural grass surface of heinz field. and he doesn't have to deal with bad weather like the steelers passing game does on a regular basis. there are so many factors that go into passing numbers and the problem is that most people don't look at those factors. they see manning's numbers and talk like it's peyton doing it all by himself. then look at ben's numbers and say he's "overrated" because he has a great defense and his numbers aren't like manning's. if you're going to bring up the steelers defense than you have to bring up the better talent surrounding peyton on offense to make a fair argument.

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 06:32 PM
yep I sure wish I was a miami or Indy fan and I could brag up my QBs and there regular season wins.....:thinking: are you guys serious lol. 2 of our QBs are 6-0 with 2 SB mvps both are leaders of there teams. Both never get the credit they deserve for being great QBs. THE GAME IS ABOUT WINNING NOT STATS....IDIOTS. the Steelers have proven time and time again what a great D and running game will get you with out a great QB= failure......I would not of traded Big Ben or Bradshaw for anybody. If you judge these 2 by the QB numbers and stats you are a fool and probably never played them game. I can not remember ever loosing a game and being thankfull we had a great QB because his stats were exellant. Better ask the Colts if they liked there game winning drive or the Steelers from last year.

andyg1984
02-11-2010, 06:57 PM
wow, i don't where to start .. grammar or content?

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 07:27 PM
wtf you aren't one of those douche bags who thinks this is a spelling contest? or a english forum? Are you gay?

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 07:31 PM
wtf you aren't one of those douche bags who thinks this is a spelling contest? or a english forum? Are you gay?

jesus christ. are we going to start a fight about absolutely nothing? chill out man

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 07:34 PM
Shut up! pic on the guy who started it not me. I gave a football opinion and then was critisized on my grammar. Why is it always the guy responding who gets balmed not the cause of the problem.:rant2:

I am a FOOTBALL FAN I do not come here to get my work corrected for proper english.

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 07:37 PM
Shut up! pic on the guy who started it not me. I gave a football opinion and then was critisized on my grammar. Why is it always the guy responding who gets balmed not the cause of the problem.:rant2:

first off, i'm not picking on anyone. i'm just telling you to chill out. you're overreacting about absolutely nothing.

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 07:50 PM
who the F* are you to tell me anything. look *******s FOOTBALL.....FOOTBALL. is what I am here to talk about only. Leave your opinions on my grammar and my attitude out of it. It has been tried before I dont care what anybody else thinks of me. FOOTBALL....GET IT. :biteme: :6smile:

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 08:18 PM
who the F* are you to tell me anything. look *******s FOOTBALL.....FOOTBALL. is what I am here to talk about only. Leave your opinions on my grammar and my attitude out of it. It has been tried before I dont care what anybody else thinks of me. FOOTBALL....GET IT. :biteme: :6smile:

no offense but you aren't going to get anywhere talking to people like that on here. you're flipping out because andyg1984 made a little wisecrack about your grammar, without really insulting you, yet you're quick to start calling everyone gay, *******s, etc. you won't get any respect around here if you're going to fly off the deep end and curse at people over the smallest, most insignificant things. i suggest you grow up a bit

LatrobePA
02-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Easy fellas you'll get this thread locked up...

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 08:25 PM
omg **** off. Now you are a physc. major. Dude football thats it. I responded to the topic posted. I wish you ****ing *******s would do the same thing. POST ON THE TOPIC, YOU ARE WASTING BAND WIDTH TRYING TO HEAL ME LOL. I DONT CARE GET IT........

--- Added 2/11/2010 at 06:25 PM ---


Easy fellas you'll get this thread locked up...


I agree 100% football topics please.

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 08:27 PM
Easy fellas you'll get this thread locked up...
no problem from me. i'm just trying to get this guy to grow up a bit instead of picking fights with everyone. but he's clearly not getting the point so whatever. i'm done with him

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 08:29 PM
no problem from me. i'm just trying to get this guy to grow up a bit instead of picking fights with everyone. but he's clearly not getting the point so whatever. i'm done with him

again stick to the post topic *******. I am glad you are done with me I DIDNT ASK YOU TO START

MattyVfromCT
02-11-2010, 08:32 PM
again stick to the post topic *******. I am glad you are done with me I DIDNT ASK YOU TO START

yes i'm an *******. thank you. and what does that make you? i don't see you sticking to any topic except getting all bent out of shape about andyg1984 poking fun at your grammar. let it go. there's no need to make enemies with other steeler fans. stop taking everything so personal. peace. i'm not wasting any more time with this nonsense

NorCalSteel
02-11-2010, 09:33 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH IF YOU ARE DONE WITH IT BE DONE....OK

--- Added 2/11/2010 at 07:33 PM ---

On a FOOTBALL note it always surprises me the lack of respect Big Ben gets with the media, and his own fans. What more does he honestly have to do? 13-0 as a rookie starter (NFL record). Youngest QB to win a Superbowl(he didnt play awesome but he sure as hell got us there) another NFL record. He bailed out Bettis with his game saving tackle in the playoffs against the Colts. Did you notice Paytons lame attempt at a tackle in the Superbowl. Ben has been in the NFL 6 years nobody has more come from behind wins in that time frame. I think if you ask any rookie QB comming into the NFL if they would be happy with the same success(maybe most the vets also) they would look at you as if you were stupid.

andyg1984
02-12-2010, 01:53 AM
my bad man, i am just crackin jokes ...i love ben- it is just that this conversation is wild .. i think we can all agree with you tho that the moments like sb 43 r what matter ..

StewXXL
02-12-2010, 02:27 AM
my bad man, i am just crackin jokes ...i love ben- it is just that this conversation is wild .. i think we can all agree with you tho that the moments like sb 43 r what matter ..
agreed!

SteelerSteve
02-12-2010, 03:33 AM
who the F* are you to tell me anything. look *******s FOOTBALL.....FOOTBALL. is what I am here to talk about only. Leave your opinions on my grammar and my attitude out of it. It has been tried before I dont care what anybody else thinks of me. FOOTBALL....GET IT. :biteme: :6smile:Then talk football!!!

NorCalSteel
02-12-2010, 09:45 AM
Then talk football!!!

I have been. You know there are more than one posts by me on this thread. You guys kill me. I started with a football post, got side tracked by non football comments about my post. Ended with a football post and you focus on that one.
Yes you to steve can **** off. and :buttkiss:

JensK
02-12-2010, 09:52 AM
I have been. You know there are more than one posts by me on this thread. You guys kill me. I started with a football post, got side tracked by non football comments about my post. Ended with a football post and you focus on that one.
Yes you to steve can **** off. and :buttkiss:

Lets all agree about a couple of things here:

1. Manning is a better passer than Big Ben

2. Big Ben is a better QB/Football player than Manning

3. You are acting like a child right now. If you want to talk smack, well PM one of the admins and they'll direct you to our Smack-Talk forum.

LatrobePA
02-12-2010, 10:04 AM
This is a public forum, I sure as hell don't want to read all this BS, take it to PM's or get a room!!

NorCalSteel
02-12-2010, 10:30 AM
everybody can :moon: if you want to talk **** to me PM me you hypocrites lol. just like you said. This forum has to full of some of the dumbest people I have seen. I still love you all because you are steelers fans like me....but ****ing stupid :evilshake:

First off by posting you are tired of the BS posts, you are infact adding to the BS posts your self.

Second posting you wish all of this could be taken to PMs would have been better off taken it to PMs buy yourself keeping it off the post.

I keep posting about football stuff but everybody seems to want to BS and talk **** instead....ok I am game. I would much rather talk about the topic but if you insist lets get it out of our systems. I will not let people talk down to me with out a response EVER so if you think some whitty stupid comment will help go for it. I can do this all day. I love talking steeler football and am extremely knowledgeable about it...but BS is what you are all after. i think maybe people are just bored. I can fight till next season I guess. bring it...

andyg1984
02-12-2010, 11:36 AM
again, my apologies and in hindsight what i said was dumb - you are right .. it is just when you caps lock the word idiot and direct it at people you should realize what you are setting yourself up for if you do not proofread what you are posting ..

back to the topic, i have already said what i feel .. in a few years i think this conversation will be A Rod vs Ben - i know it sounds crazy now and do not expect people to be on board but out of all the young guys i think rodgers has the best promise and i worry about the longevity of ben ..

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 09:36 AM ---

also should throw rivers in this conversation in a few

JensK
02-12-2010, 11:54 AM
everybody can :moon: if you want to talk **** to me PM me you hypocrites lol. just like you said. This forum has to full of some of the dumbest people I have seen. I still love you all because you are steelers fans like me....but ****ing stupid :evilshake:

First off by posting you are tired of the BS posts, you are infact adding to the BS posts your self.

Second posting you wish all of this could be taken to PMs would have been better off taken it to PMs buy yourself keeping it off the post.

I keep posting about football stuff but everybody seems to want to BS and talk **** instead....ok I am game. I would much rather talk about the topic but if you insist lets get it out of our systems. I will not let people talk down to me with out a response EVER so if you think some whitty stupid comment will help go for it. I can do this all day. I love talking steeler football and am extremely knowledgeable about it...but BS is what you are all after. i think maybe people are just bored. I can fight till next season I guess. bring it...

You know, out of your latest 6 post, only one of them has had any football oriented in them.

Andy - Its a tough discussion, because you have to know what criteria we are judging. Neither A. Rod or Rivers has a SB ring, or have even been to a SB. Big Ben has 2. Out of those 3 QBs, i really think there is a much bigger chance that Ben will win his third than A. Rod and Rivers will win their first. Big Ben just got "it". He is not afraid to carry the team on his shoulders and take the blame when things are going bad. He is probably one of the biggest competitors in the game. I remember reading an article about him where they said that he hates walking out of the room as the last person, because then i did not win that race.

I dont see neither Rivers or A. Rod as that kind of a person. Especially not Rivers who'll go crazy when things don't go his way, which is why i think you can throw him away from the discussion.

From a pure passing pov A. Rod is really good, and i too think he'll become one of the best in the league, very Manning like really. Add to that, that he is a tough sucker to bring down, and you have a pretty complete QB, but for some reason i just dont see him doing the same thing as Ben, for the reasons i mentioned before. But thats just me obviously. I wouldnt mind him proving me wrong, i like A. Rod as a player.

I think we should watch out for a guy like Matt Ryan. Hes got some skills, and he could develop into a very good QB, especially with a lot of young talent around him. Falcons is going to be dangerous within a few years. :2cents:

andyg1984
02-12-2010, 01:45 PM
very good points .. i guess all we can do is wait ..

Scorp
02-12-2010, 02:24 PM
WTF did miss? I love the Fu-cking drama. Who's got popcorn?

MattyVfromCT
02-12-2010, 05:30 PM
again, my apologies and in hindsight what i said was dumb - you are right .. it is just when you caps lock the word idiot and direct it at people you should realize what you are setting yourself up for if you do not proofread what you are posting ..

back to the topic, i have already said what i feel .. in a few years i think this conversation will be A Rod vs Ben - i know it sounds crazy now and do not expect people to be on board but out of all the young guys i think rodgers has the best promise and i worry about the longevity of ben ..

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 09:36 AM ---

also should throw rivers in this conversation in a few

oh my god is he still going off about you poking fun at his grammar? he flipped out on me and called me an ******* for telling him he was overreacting about absolutely nothing lol. why do so many people insist on being internet tough guys? it's pretty lame

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 03:30 PM ---


Lets all agree about a couple of things here:

1. Manning is a better passer than Big Ben

2. Big Ben is a better QB/Football player than Manning

3. You are acting like a child right now. If you want to talk smack, well PM one of the admins and they'll direct you to our Smack-Talk forum.

agree on every single one of those points

NorCalSteel
02-12-2010, 05:34 PM
I havent had enough coffe yet but who is A rod? I thought he played for the Yankees lol. Being a good QB in the NFL requires beeing more than a great passer. Reading and reacting is just as important, also being smart. I have seen plenty of great passers in the NFL only play a few years. If Big Ben could hit our speedsters in stride on the deep ball he could be one of the great passers.


Oh and matt you butted in were you were not wanted and got slapped down get it straight. see i was trying just football and you are still crying get over it.

JensK
02-12-2010, 05:43 PM
A. Rod = Aaron Rodgers

Scorp
02-12-2010, 05:52 PM
Big Ben is a greater passer than manning. Ben has made some amazing throws for some sweet *** TD'S. Maybe you guys choose manning because he has been in the nfl longer than Ben. I have not seen manning throw an Immaculate throw for an Immaculate touchdown in the super bowl. Or like the one Ben made against the Packers at the end of regulation. I could go on boys.

NorCalSteel
02-12-2010, 05:53 PM
lol ok to many people with the same nick name. Thanks hmmmm how did Big Ben do in his match up against a rod this year.......:yellowthumb:

funny thing he grew up and played High school football 75 miles away from were I live and nobody around here calls him A Rod.

MattyVfromCT
02-12-2010, 05:56 PM
I havent had enough coffe yet but who is A rod? I thought he played for the Yankees lol. Being a good QB in the NFL requires beeing more than a great passer. Reading and reacting is just as important, also being smart. I have seen plenty of great passers in the NFL only play a few years. If Big Ben could hit our speedsters in stride on the deep ball he could be one of the great passers.


Oh and matt you butted in were you were not wanted and got slapped down get it straight. see i was trying just football and you are still crying get over it.

dude. you are acting like a child. i chose to walk away because there's no point in arguing with a ****ing idiot. i came back here because i saw there were new posts by other users and i thought they would be related to the topic and then i see you crying again because andy hurt your feelings making fun of your grammar. you're on here calling everyone *******s for telling you to chill out. you need a lot of growing up to do. you won't get anyone's respect acting like that.

JensK
02-12-2010, 05:59 PM
You can hardly compare two QBs against eachother based on one game against each other. That would not be fair. In that case, Ben is worse than Gradkowski. BLKNGLDSCORPIO, i respectfully disagree. Those situations you mention does not make him a better passer, although it does make him more clutch as i also mentioned in a post before. When talking about being a good passer you would look at the throwing mechanism, how you act in the pocket etc. etc. There is really no denying that Manning does all those things better than Ben. I would take Ben of Manning any day of the week though, due to the before mentioned reasons.

MattyVfromCT
02-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Big Ben is a greater passer than manning. Ben has made some amazing throws for some sweet *** TD'S. Maybe you guys choose manning because he has been in the nfl longer than Ben. I have not seen manning throw an Immaculate throw for an Immaculate touchdown in the super bowl. Or like the one Ben made against the Packers at the end of regulation. I could go on boys.

exactly. it is unbelievable how ben doesn't get the credit he deserves. people are so quick to compare numbers without looking at all the factors that go into those numbers. (offensive gameplan, offensive line, caliber of receivers, etc.) they need to look at those factors, especially if they're going to point out how ben has had great defenses in pittsburgh. the fact is, despite what anyone thinks, manning is incredibly overrated. the whole point of playing is to win, and winning championships is the measuring stick for greatness imo. manning was never a good big game qb. not in high school, not in college and not in the nfl. he's great in the regular season, but in the playoffs, where the tru greats shine, he falls short. and people make excuses for him. it's sad

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 04:05 PM ---


You can hardly compare two QBs against eachother based on one game against each other. That would not be fair. In that case, Ben is worse than Gradkowski. BLKNGLDSCORPIO, i respectfully disagree. Those situations you mention does not make him a better passer, although it does make him more clutch as i also mentioned in a post before. When talking about being a good passer you would look at the throwing mechanism, how you act in the pocket etc. etc. There is really no denying that Manning does all those things better than Ben. I would take Ben of Manning any day of the week though, due to the before mentioned reasons.

you also have to remember that the offense manning plays in is designed for pocket passing and based on timing. the steelers let ben roam around more and make things happen downfield. in my opinion, if you put ben in indy, with the superior gameplan, receivers and protection manning has had, he would succeed. and at the same time i believe if you put manning on the current steelers, he would struggle. not saying he would all of a sudden become jamarcus russell but i think he'd have problems with the line we have

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 04:10 PM ---

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_666248.html

great article. many good points.

NorCalSteel
02-12-2010, 07:58 PM
dude. you are acting like a child. i chose to walk away because there's no point in arguing with a ****ing idiot. i came back here because i saw there were new posts by other users and i thought they would be related to the topic and then i see you crying again because andy hurt your feelings making fun of your grammar. you're on here calling everyone *******s for telling you to chill out. you need a lot of growing up to do. you won't get anyone's respect acting like that.

OK I give up if there is no point arguing why do you keep bringing this back up over and over again lol? You didnt insult me you didnt hurt my feelings. You are acting very inmature to keep calling somebody a child? So I will go over this again for you matty **** off. I DONT CARE......:banana:

--- Added 2/12/2010 at 05:58 PM ---


You can hardly compare two QBs against eachother based on one game against each other. That would not be fair. In that case, Ben is worse than Gradkowski. BLKNGLDSCORPIO, i respectfully disagree. Those situations you mention does not make him a better passer, although it does make him more clutch as i also mentioned in a post before. When talking about being a good passer you would look at the throwing mechanism, how you act in the pocket etc. etc. There is really no denying that Manning does all those things better than Ben. I would take Ben of Manning any day of the week though, due to the before mentioned reasons.

Actualy in the game you mentioned Big Ben lead the steelers to 2 4th qt go ahead touchdowns. The D choked big time, big bruce threw a sure pic to loose the game for them in the clutch....except butterfingers droped it.. To be a good passer you need to complete passes. to the guys in your same color uniform. Do you think mannings numbers would be so great if he QB's out side in the wind and cold the Steelers play in.

SteelerSteve
02-12-2010, 08:30 PM
Actualy in the game you mentioned Big Ben lead the steelers to 2 4th qt go ahead touchdowns. The D choked big time, big bruce threw a sure pic to loose the game for them in the clutch....except butterfingers droped it.. To be a good passer you need to complete passes. to the guys in your same color uniform. Do you think mannings numbers would be so great if he QB's out side in the wind and cold the Steelers play in.
hmm, I think what makes Manning a better "passer" than ben is mostly that Manning has crazy good accuracy. Having good mechanics but not being accurate doesn't make you a better passer than somebody that may have unorthodox mechanics if you dont have accuracy....I have to agree though, playing in the outdoors and not in a dome where wind or foul weather isn't a factor definitely makes a difference

MattyVfromCT
02-13-2010, 02:30 AM
ben's accuracy is very underrated. the pass to win super bowl xliii, as well as the one right before it that holmes dropped were as close to perfect as you can find. and the green bay game this year he was ridiculous. forget the game winner to wallace. he had one that was 30-40 yards downfield to hines i believe where he threw off of one foot. it had the velocity and was right on the money. very impressive