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View Full Version : Did Ben save BA?



Zachintosh66
01-07-2010, 03:44 PM
Below are some tweets from Steelers Reporter Jim Wexell:

Just learned that Ben saved BA's job. "Completed a Hail Mary" is how it was put to me. Too much power for a player. #steelers

.@brainwise Yes, Ben's best friend on the team probably Arians. Live in same housing, well, plan not good term, but area. Pals. Yuk.

.@rkapur000 Yeah, I'm sure team appreciates Ben golfing w/Arians and not them. Too much power for a player.

.@missedgehead Front office didn't want Tomlin to keep Arians, but long tradition of lettting coaches coach. Only made Noll fire ACs once

https://twitter.com/jimwexell

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 03:47 PM
Ben runs the Steelers. He'll bitch and whine and eventually get what he wants. I like the guy as a QB, but yeah, he probably was the main reason BA stayed.

Goodfrom55
01-07-2010, 03:53 PM
The offensive numbers don't lie; let's face it, it's a stats world. But the play calling sucks, especially in the red zone. This is his final year of BA's contract, he'd better sharpen up his play calling and stop being so damn predictable.

harpo
01-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Hmmmm, so we should be mad at Ben and not Tomlin? :thinking:

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Get a room BB & BA!!

Zachintosh66
01-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Hmmmm, so we should be mad at Ben and not Tomlin? :thinking:

it is what it is, lmao

BlitzburghRockCity
01-07-2010, 04:12 PM
Anybody who thinks Ben wasn't in Tomlin's office the day after the season was over pitching a rant about keeping Arians, would be blind. I would think it's quite obvious that Ben wants to keep Arians around; but it's up to Tomlin to make the right call here and go in a different direction. Although at this point it seems apparent that he won't be making such a move.

Ben has had this offense tailored to him perfectly; he pretty has complete autonomy over the playbook. Quite honestly Arians wouldn't be here still for any other coach in the NFL, if it weren't for Ben's heroics and willing this team to victory. Even in the face of the worst red zone playing calling I can remember, he still gutted out 9 wins. The writing was on the wall last year, but Tomlin ignored it. Now we're out of the playoffs but everybody keeps harping on 4000 yds passing, 1000 yds rushing all that. Dig deeper here people and look at how bad this team was in so many ways, but offensively in particular since that's what we're talking about now.

This team has completely transformed itself into a "we know we can't convert 3rd and short so we're gonna go 5 wide" type of offense. How depressing is that; and you really see this problem become even more obvious in the redzone where you don't have all that real estate to work with. All teams have to do is crowd the middle of the field to stop a quick slant or just drop everybody back in coverage because they know we can't run. If you don't make a concerted effort to be successful in the running game in the first 3 quarters, nobody is going to respect your lame attempt to do so late in the game. We're not balanced, we're predictable, we can't score in the red zone. Basically if we don't score on the big "splash" play or atleast catch a team off guard in the redzone after said big play, we generally don't score. I will be fair, yes there were times when we had nice long drives, times where the running game looked good, etc. but all too often that wasn't the case.

If that's the way Ben wants the offense run then I really would question the direction this team is trying to go in.

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Here's how I see it:

Throw out the Browns game, we just didn't show up.

How many games were we leading going into the 4th? 5 isn't it??

With that said, YES BA is a DB, but we can win games with him and or put up points.

Tomlin sat this bag a **** down and told him he needs to change certain things and BA agree'd to do so. Lets face it, he's staying, gotta deal with it as fans!!

solo1986a
01-07-2010, 05:06 PM
I THINK THE GUY WAS BORN WITH NO IMAGINATION AT ALL!!!!

lloydfan4life
01-07-2010, 05:16 PM
I THINK THE GUY WAS BORN WITH NO IMAGINATION AT ALL!!!!

....or an extremely small penis and is trying to compensate by having his QB put up huge numbers.

DanRooney
01-07-2010, 05:26 PM
Yep, it's official. Tomlin has no balls and Roethlisberger is dumb.

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 05:30 PM
....or an extremely small penis and is trying to compensate by having his QB put up huge numbers.

According to Ben this is false!!

Big Bruce Roethlisberger

NYCsteelersfan
01-07-2010, 05:44 PM
Below are some tweets from Steelers Reporter Jim Wexell:

Just learned that Ben saved BA's job. "Completed a Hail Mary" is how it was put to me. Too much power for a player. #steelers

.@brainwise Yes, Ben's best friend on the team probably Arians. Live in same housing, well, plan not good term, but area. Pals. Yuk.

.@rkapur000 Yeah, I'm sure team appreciates Ben golfing w/Arians and not them. Too much power for a player.

.@missedgehead Front office didn't want Tomlin to keep Arians, but long tradition of lettting coaches coach. Only made Noll fire ACs once

https://twitter.com/jimwexell

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

Other than his tweets, what is his actual evidence?


Anybody who thinks Ben wasn't in Tomlin's office the day after the season was over pitching a rant about keeping Arians, would be blind. I would think it's quite obvious that Ben wants to keep Arians around; but it's up to Tomlin to make the right call here and go in a different direction. Although at this point it seems apparent that he won't be making such a move.

I"ve never seen any actual evidence of Roethlisberger actually campaigning to retain Arians as the offensive coordinator behind the scenes. Yes there is plenty of evidence of Roethlisberger doing this when media is present, but players say a lot of candy-***, ***-kissing, politically-correct comments in the presence of the media like they are trained to do so by their agents and personal and team publicists. And most follow these rules except for guys like Terrell Owens.

We really don't know what goes on behind the scenes and whether or not Roethlisberger campaigns for Arians' job. My thing is that I don't understand why Roethlisberger would do that. He has no reason. He already has a very high paying, long term contract. He has two Superbowl rings. No matter how pass happy Arians' playbook is it will never result in Roethlisberger breaking any yardage or TD records. So what would be his motive or reasoning for wanting to retain Arians?

I must conclude, as it has been pretty obvious, Tomlin might make a great assistant coach, but he's no head coach. He is incapable of making key personnel changes and decisions and he has proved this time and again and he has proved it to me by retaining Arians for 2010. IF Tomlin takes us into the playoffs next year and wins one playoff game then I personally will get off his back. Otherwise I firmly believe he rode Cowher's coattails and will never have the same success again as long as he is head coach.

I really hope the defense is healthy and does an about face next year otherwise if we miss the playoffs next year again or go one and done, they'll just fire Lebeau for 2011 and both Tomlin and Arians will return once again. Or even worse, Lebeau leaves to join Cowher where ever Cowher ends up taking a job.

Sir Blitzelot
01-07-2010, 05:48 PM
Posted on Profootballtalk.com:


Report: Roethlisberger saved Arians

Posted by Mike Florio on January 7, 2010 4:21 PM ET

On Tuesday, Ken Laird of ESPN Radio in Pittsburgh reported that the Steelers would be firing offensive coordinator Bruce Arians "in the near future." As it turns out, Arians will be retained.

So what happened?

"My sources were from within the organization and very solid," Laird told us via e-mail last night, "and they were convinced that Arians was going to be let go later in the week. There is clearly a differnce of opinion in the organization about the Arians offense, and it appears there was a change of heart in the 24 hours after the report."

As Jim Wexell of SteelCityInsider.com explains it, there was a change of heart.

And it was prompted by quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Per Wexell's Twitter page, Big Ben threw a "Hail Mary" pass to save Arians' job. But Wexell suggests that Arians wasn't in danger of being fired until Arians leaked that he was going to be fired. Wexell says that Arians was under the impression he was being let go, that he sought confirmation from coach Mike Tomlin, that Tomlin brushed him off, and that Arians then assumed he was out.

The move makes sense, given that Wexell also points out that Arians is Roethlisberger's best friend in the organization, and that they golf together. But we agree with Wexell on the import of the move -- if Roethlisberger is able to save the job of a guy who predated Tomlin's arrival at a time when two assistant coaches hired by Tomlin are being fired, the player has too much power.

Link: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/07/report-roethlisberger-saved-arians/

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Other than his tweets, what is his actual evidence?



I"ve never seen any actual evidence of Roethlisberger actually campaigning to retain Arians as the offensive coordinator behind the scenes. Yes there is plenty of evidence of Roethlisberger doing this when media is present, but players say a lot of candy-***, ***-kissing, politically-correct comments in the presence of the media like they are trained to do so by their agents and personal and team publicists. And most follow these rules except for guys like Terrell Owens.

We really don't know what goes on behind the scenes and whether or not Roethlisberger campaigns for Arians' job. My thing is that I don't understand why Roethlisberger would do that. He has no reason. He already has a very high paying, long term contract. He has two Superbowl rings. No matter how pass happy Arians' playbook is it will never result in Roethlisberger braking any yardage or TD records. So what would be his motive or reasoning for wanting to retain Arians?

I must conclude, as it has been pretty obvious, Tomlin might make a great assistant coach, but he's no head coach. He is incapable of making key personnel changes and decisions and he has proved this time and again and he has proved it to me by retaining Arians for 2010. IF Tomlin takes us into the playoffs next year and wins one playoff game then I personally will get off his back. Otherwise I firmly believe he rode Cowher's coattails and will never have the same success again as long as he is head coach.

I really hope the defense is healthy and does an about face next year otherwise if we miss the playoffs next year again or go one and done, they'll just fire Lebeau for 2011 and both Tomlin and Arians will return once again. Or even worse, Lebeau leaves to join Cowher where ever Cowher ends up taking a job.

The actual evidence is that Roethlisberger likes Arians..it's not a whole big investigation we have to conduct here. The guy likes his offensive coordinator so he's obviously going to campaign to try to keep him, and Roethlisberger does what he wants. An unhappy quarterback does not make for a good offseason, so of course they're going to do their best to meet his demands.

And I must say again..TOMLIN HAD NO PLAYERS TO MAKE PERSONNEL CHANGES WITH (and I assume you're talking about the secondary). :duh:. He had Townsend, Carter, Gay, Clark, Taylor and some rookie players that he did experiment with a few times. He can't just go out in the middle of the season and bring back an entire new personnel. Tomlin is not the problem here. He could have done a few things differently, but the Steelers have bigger fish to fry here.

P.S. Lebeau would NEVER leave Pittsburgh to follow Cowher. The guys almost done..he's not going to leave to stay at another team for 3 years.

JoeFlaccoSaysHi
01-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Can't say I blame Ben here. The guy puts together a playbook and calls plays that plays to Ben's strengths. I would assume all NFL QB's would want an OC that was going to put a system in place that showcased them. Those passer rating stats are worth big numbers come time for contract negotiations.

Blazedby92
01-07-2010, 05:56 PM
Can't say I blame Ben here. The guy puts together a playbook and calls plays that plays to Ben's strengths. I would assume all NFL QB's would want an OC that was going to put a system in place that showcased them. Those passer rating stats are worth big numbers come time for contract negotiations.
:plus1:
:plus1::plus1::plus1:

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2010, 06:05 PM
I'm glad BA is back.....Bringing in a new OC who would want to run his system would have forced the offensive players to learn a new system which would have taken time which and prevented the team to miss the play-offs again next year....

Again I will say BA isn't the greatest OC but he isn't the worst either......The Steelers did have issues in the red zone this year and I agree BA's play calling was strange at times inside the red zone......

But if the defense hadn't blown so many 4th quarter leads this year then the Steelers are still playing next and we're not even talking about BA and him being fired or not.....

The defense blowing 4th quarter leads and the kick coverage are the biggest reasons this team missed the play-offs this year....

andyg1984
01-07-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm glad BA is back.....Bringing in a new OC who would want to run his system would have forced the offensive players to learn a new system which would have taken time which and prevented the team to miss the play-offs again next year....

Again I will say BA isn't the greatest OC but he isn't the worst either......The Steelers did have issues in the red zone this year and I agree BA's play calling was strange at times inside the red zone......

But if the defense hadn't blown so many 4th quarter leads this year then the Steelers are still playing next and we're not even talking about BA and him being fired or not.....

The defense blowing 4th quarter leads and the kick coverage are the biggest reasons this team missed the play-offs this year....


agree .. Tomlin and DL are secondary guys, right?
Arians ran the 7th best offense in the NFL , find another scapegoat

imo Willie Gay, Tyrone Carter and Justin Hartwig should be the ones who have threads this long dedicated to themselves

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 06:17 PM
agree .. Tomlin and DL are secondary guys, right?
Arians ran the 7th best offense in the NFL , find another scapegoat

imo Willie Gay, Tyrone Carter and Justin Hartwig should be the ones who have threads this long dedicated to themselves

Arians did not run the 7th best offense in the NFL, Ben did. I don't understand how you can defend this guy. He called plays that made me want to throw my TV out the window.

Big T
01-07-2010, 06:18 PM
Keep the Franchise (Ben) happy...

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2010, 06:31 PM
Arians did not run the 7th best offense in the NFL, Ben did. I don't understand how you can defend this guy. He called plays that made me want to throw my TV out the window.

Yea every Steelers OC since Ron Erhardt has called plays that made me scratch my head or yell at the tv....That goes for Chan Gailey, Ray Sherman, Kevin Gilbride, Mike Mularkey, Ken Whisenhunt, and Bruce Arians......

You're right Ben did run the offense but BA is a big reason in Ben's development and Ben likes BA......I think keeping our franchise QB happy is a wise decision.....

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 06:36 PM
Yea every Steelers OC since Ron Erhardt has called plays that made me scratch my head or yell at the tv....That goes for Chan Gailey, Ray Sherman, Kevin Gilbride, Mike Mularkey, Ken Whisenhunt, and Bruce Arians......

You're right Ben did run the offense but BA is a big reason in Ben's development and Ben likes BA......I think keeping our franchise QB happy is a wise decision.....

I agree that keeping BA for Bens sake was a good decision, however, what I think isn't a good decision is continuing to let Arians call his ludacrous plays.

Black@Gold Forever32
01-07-2010, 06:38 PM
I agree that keeping BA for Bens sake was a good decision, however, what I think isn't a good decision is continuing to let Arians call his ludacrous plays.

But like I said every OC since I can remember called questionable plays at times.....and the OC after Arians will do the same and some fans will bitch about that guy constantly to.....lol

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 06:38 PM
Can't say I blame Ben here. The guy puts together a playbook and calls plays that plays to Ben's strengths. I would assume all NFL QB's would want an OC that was going to put a system in place that showcased them. Those passer rating stats are worth big numbers come time for contract negotiations.

Cool, he can snuggle up to his cozy playbook this cold winter while he's watching other teams battle for the SB!

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 06:42 PM
But like I said every OC since I can remember called questionable plays at times.....and the OC after Arians will do the same and some fans will bitch about that guy constantly to.....lol

I don't remember anyone bitching about Ken Whisenhunt like they do about Bruce Arians..just saying. When you have such a low red zone efficiency..ehhh..there's something wrong.

NYCsteelersfan
01-07-2010, 06:45 PM
The actual evidence is that Roethlisberger likes Arians..it's not a whole big investigation we have to conduct here. The guy likes his offensive coordinator so he's obviously going to campaign to try to keep him

There's no "obviously", you are simply making an assumption, and your assumption is as worthless as my own. Campaigning to keep an offensive coordinator is not a direct and automatic effect of liking him.




And I must say again..TOMLIN HAD NO PLAYERS TO MAKE PERSONNEL CHANGES WITH (and I assume you're talking about the secondary). :duh:. He had Townsend, Carter, Gay, Clark, Taylor and some rookie players that he did experiment with a few times. He can't just go out in the middle of the season and bring back an entire new personnel. Tomlin is not the problem here. He could have done a few things differently, but the Steelers have bigger fish to fry here.

You're constant excuses for Tomlin are as pitiful as those who make the same excuses for Arians.


P.S. Lebeau would NEVER leave Pittsburgh to follow Cowher. The guys almost done..he's not going to leave to stay at another team for 3 years.

Only time can prove you right.

StlersGuy
01-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Arians did not run the 7th best offense in the NFL, Ben did. I don't understand how you can defend this guy. He called plays that made me want to throw my TV out the window.

I know what you mean I broke remote after remote because of that a-hole.... I think I should send him a bill to replace all of my remotes :yesnod:

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 07:41 PM
I know what you mean I broke remote after remote because of that a-hole.... I think I should send him a bill to replace all of my remotes :yesnod:

Same here, I also broke 2 damn dogs and my foot! lol

SteelCityKid5
01-07-2010, 07:48 PM
Ha Ha Ha Ha.... I didnt call this one

CNY_STEELER_FAN
01-07-2010, 08:13 PM
Any chance that perhaps Tomlin will take over playcalling in games (but let BA keep the OC title)?

75Steeler
01-07-2010, 08:31 PM
I'm still trying to digest the fact that BA still has a job. As for what happened in the Steelers offices behind closed doors we may never know. Whether Ben went to bat for his golfing buddy or Tomlin had a change of heart and kept him is a dead issue. We will have to see BA back on the Steeler's sidelines for another season and that is a shame after this season! Just keep your :crossfingers: that things go much better next season and we can become champions again.

andyg1984
01-07-2010, 08:35 PM
OK, enough with this ..Our offense ran several hundred plays this year.. if you are like me you watched every single game (the vast majority of them twice) and if you are a vet you have them tivo'd ... .. give us a list of 100 plays you find predictable and then we can have a serious discussion

Bottom line is that the game is about scoring more points than the other team .. the offense CLEARLY did their part .. the D did not, if you cannot see that it simply blows my mind ..

why would you call running plays when you cannot follow the C/RG and your running back (who runs soft at times) has ball security issues ?

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 08:41 PM
Hmm 100 predictable plays..sorry I'm not about to list almost every single red zone play from this year. Bruce Arians is PREDICTABLE. I can't even begin to understand how that's negotiable. This is not an issue of whether he's a good coach, whether the offense likes him, he's a bad play caller. PERIOD.

Yeah. 6 points in Cleveland is clearly doing their part I guess..

Zachintosh66
01-07-2010, 08:44 PM
Any chance that perhaps Tomlin will take over playcalling in games (but let BA keep the OC title)?

Nah, Tomlin is a Defensive Coach...

andyg1984
01-07-2010, 09:12 PM
Hmm 100 predictable plays..sorry I'm not about to list almost every single red zone play from this year. Bruce Arians is PREDICTABLE. I can't even begin to understand how that's negotiable. This is not an issue of whether he's a good coach, whether the offense likes him, he's a bad play caller. PERIOD.

Yeah. 6 points in Cleveland is clearly doing their part I guess..

ask for 100 plays and you get the score to one game .. hmm ... the most specific thing you can say is "predictable in the redzone" .. how are they predictable? are you able to provide something specific .. like empty backfield, TE staying in too often to block, not enough trick plays ?what specifically are you talking about ?

you cannot say something is a slam dunk case and do nothing at all to back it up... then provide something completely off the bell curve and imply it is representative .. lmao

BTW .. 6 points should be enough to beat the browns ..

steelersbabex25
01-07-2010, 09:32 PM
ask for 100 plays and you get the score to one game .. hmm ... the most specific thing you can say is "predictable in the redzone" .. how are they predictable? are you able to provide something specific .. like empty backfield, TE staying in too often to block, not enough trick plays ?what specifically are you talking about ?

you cannot say something is a slam dunk case and do nothing at all to back it up... then provide something completely off the bell curve and imply it is representative .. lmao

BTW .. 6 points should be enough to beat the browns ..

Well I'm not sure about you but I don't go through and take notes on plays that I would consider predicatable..unfortunately I didn't know that we would be sitting here having this debate right now. 30th in redzone offense should be specific enough..I don't think that stat is just a coinkidink. When you have the offensive weapons that we had, it's probably not because the offense couldn't execute. It probably has something more to do with the fact that the teams knew what the play was before they got on to the line of scrimmiage..and I don't mean they were going the way of Belicheat.

Btw..that's irrelevant. You should score more than 6 pts against the Browns regardless.

RIVERS OF STEEL
01-07-2010, 09:41 PM
u now have the proverbial problem of the subordinates running the show. this ain't gonna be pretty. again. imo.

LatrobePA
01-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Ch-ch-ch-changes!

Good read:

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/

andyg1984
01-08-2010, 01:47 AM
very nice reply i will admit .. but i think at the end of the day the only relevant stat is total production and the timing of it because it already incorporates the redzone efficiency (and the fact that the 20 yard line is slightly arbitrary) ..

i meant to put a lol by my Browns comment btw .. that game did trouble me play calling wise... was something i wish to not revisit

NYCsteelersfan
01-08-2010, 04:18 AM
OK, enough with this ..Our offense ran several hundred plays this year.. if you are like me you watched every single game (the vast majority of them twice) and if you are a vet you have them tivo'd ... .. give us a list of 100 plays you find predictable and then we can have a serious discussion

Bottom line is that the game is about scoring more points than the other team .. the offense CLEARLY did their part .. the D did not, if you cannot see that it simply blows my mind ..

why would you call running plays when you cannot follow the C/RG and your running back (who runs soft at times) has ball security issues ?

Anyone who thinks Arians is a god offensive coordinator either loves meaningless individual stats or is a fool.

NCSteeler
01-08-2010, 06:56 AM
very nice reply i will admit .. but i think at the end of the day the only relevant stat is total production and the timing of it because it already incorporates the redzone efficiency (and the fact that the 20 yard line is slightly arbitrary) ..

i meant to put a lol by my Browns comment btw .. that game did trouble me play calling wise... was something i wish to not revisit

3rd down efficiency 39 %
Total production = POINTS not F'in yards . We were middle of the road or worse in POINTS scored.

DIESELMAN
01-08-2010, 10:12 AM
but i think at the end of the day the only relevant stat is total production and the timing of it because it already incorporates the redzone efficiency (and the fact that the 20 yard line is slightly arbitrary) ..


The only relevant stat at the end of the day is Wins and Losses. Stats don't mean crap if your 0-16 or 9-7 and don't make the playoffs.

LatrobePA
01-08-2010, 10:20 AM
The only relevant stat at the end of the day is Wins and Losses. Stats don't mean crap if your 0-16 or 9-7 and don't make the playoffs.

That's what I've been saying, stats = nothing if you're home in January!

JoeFlaccoSaysHi
01-08-2010, 10:34 AM
That's what I've been saying, stats = nothing if you're home in January!

Agree on the W's and L's...but how do you pin the record on the OC? Clearly he had an off year, but there are two other coordinators and a lot of players he has no control over.

Looks like the special teams guy was the sacrificial lamb. Personally I'd rather have the same guy back (given he changes things up a bit) than bring a new guy and have the offense learn an entirely new system.

andyg1984
01-08-2010, 10:45 AM
i am done with this .. i feel like i am going to be mugged in a moshpit .. lol ..

bottom line is i think he is decent/adequate for the next year, not great or top 10 for that matter .. i just think it is blown out of proportion and i fear a change like that .. there is a big difference between being adequate and good .. and i stand by my statement tht if the D/ST would have played well we are not having this conversation to this extent ...

my whole point of being such a pain in the butt is i think we should talk about why it is predictable .. i agree that is the case at times .. here is what i have a problem with ..

1. I think Heath stays in to block too much, esp on the edge when most of the pressure seems to come through the Hartwig hallway
2. I do not understand the abundance of empty backfield ??
3. I am not sure why we try to run up the 2 gap as much as we do
4. too many short screen passes to Holmes and Ward - NOW THAT IS PREDICTABLE
5. Mendenhall is being confused at times for a power back

so yes, you all are correct the offense is predictable at times.. i just prefer to talk about why it is so instead of merely stating it is and resulting to personal attacks .. jk .. haha

but for now i throw in the flag unless i get some help ..jk .. ya'll are awesome tho!

LatrobePA
01-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Agree on the W's and L's...but how do you pin the record on the OC? Clearly he had an off year, but there are two other coordinators and a lot of players he has no control over.

Looks like the special teams guy was the sacrificial lamb. Personally I'd rather have the same guy back (given he changes things up a bit) than bring a new guy and have the offense learn an entirely new system.

I was saying stats mean nothing, I didn't accuse the OC for not making the PO's!

I've actually said having a lead going into the 4th in 5 games we lost was more on the D, BUT running the ball more would of helped control the clock! So I guess it's contradicting!!

TEEMONT
01-08-2010, 11:10 AM
Nah, Tomlin is a Defensive Coach...

he played WR in college.

--- Added 1/8/2010 at 09:10 AM ---

btw I would be willing to bet that most of the people saying Arians is "predictable" don't know a draw play from a hole in the ground.

Going back at the end of the year and saying, " OMG he was so predictable" is pretty easy, but there probably aren't too many of you out there that watched the game, and said to yourself, "I bet they are going to run (fill in the blank) on this play"." I would be willing to bet not too many of you have that kind fo football knowledge or forsight.

It's easy to sit here and bitch after the fact.

DanRooney
01-08-2010, 11:19 AM
he played WR in college.

--- Added 1/8/2010 at 09:10 AM ---

btw I would be willing to bet that most of the people saying Arians is "predictable" don't know a draw play from a hole in the ground.

Going back at the end of the year and saying, " OMG he was so predictable" is pretty easy, but there probably aren't too many of you out there that watched the game, and said to yourself, "I bet they are going to run (fill in the blank) on this play"." I would be willing to bet not too many of you have that kind fo football knowledge or forsight.

It's easy to sit here and bitch after the fact.

Yeah I mean who here could call an empty backfield 5 wide on a 3rd and 2? How bout a 40 yard chuck downfield on a 2nd and short? (note the extreme sarcasm).

There were a total of 2 times in Bruce Arians stint that I was absolutely fooled. One was a 3rd and 7 QB sweep against Jacksonville in the playoffs, and the other was a pitch to Mewelde Moore in overtime that resulted in a huge loss. Those two plays were very unpredictable :yellowthumb:

LatrobePA
01-08-2010, 11:22 AM
Here is a play we should of ran, (8 yr old daughter reccomended it):

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3484925/glee_football_dance_single_ladies_hq_full_video/

coldrolled
01-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Yeah I mean who here could call an empty backfield 5 wide on a 3rd and 2? How bout a 40 yard chuck downfield on a 2nd and short? (note the extreme sarcasm).

There were a total of 2 times in Bruce Arians stint that I was absolutely fooled. One was a 3rd and 7 QB sweep against Jacksonville in the playoffs, and the other was a pitch to Mewelde Moore in overtime that resulted in a huge loss. Those two plays were very unpredictable :yellowthumb:

Arians is still on the team because they have not found the best available OC to replace him. you cant replace him if you cant find someone better...

whos out there right now?

if they find someone they feel is better.. arians will be history.

TEEMONT
01-08-2010, 12:07 PM
Yeah I mean who here could call an empty backfield 5 wide on a 3rd and 2? How bout a 40 yard chuck downfield on a 2nd and short? (note the extreme sarcasm).

There were a total of 2 times in Bruce Arians stint that I was absolutely fooled. One was a 3rd and 7 QB sweep against Jacksonville in the playoffs, and the other was a pitch to Mewelde Moore in overtime that resulted in a huge loss. Those two plays were very unpredictable :yellowthumb:

lol...you think BA wanted Ben to chuck it 40 yards downfield on 2nd and short? Ben does what Ben wants to do. Most of the people here want Ben to have more playcalling ability, when in reality they don't realize Ben is calling the plays and getting the gameplan he wants. In the same breath they want BA gone, b/c he's "handcuffing Ben, is too predictable, is an idiot...blah blah blah".

People get pissed if they come out and go run, run, pass. People get pissed if they come out and go pass, run, pass. People get pissed if they go pass, pass, run. People get pissed if they go pass, pass, pass.

The only time people don't get pissed is if they go run, run, run. B/c Steelers fans are dinosaurs, they are living in the past, thinking we are still a running team. Could we have more blance? absolutely. However, you can't ignore guys like Ward, Holmes, Miller, Wallace, and Moore out of the backfield. I have no problem with them throwing 30+ times a game. Dudes like Holmes and Wallace should targeted at least 6+ times a game. And throwing on 3rd and 2? How many times has Heath got an easy 6-8 yards on a quick pass to him. Throwing the ball on 3rd and 2 is probably more efficient than running, with the lack of confidence there has been in the O-line.

JensK
01-08-2010, 02:37 PM
lol...you think BA wanted Ben to chuck it 40 yards downfield on 2nd and short? Ben does what Ben wants to do. Most of the people here want Ben to have more playcalling ability, when in reality they don't realize Ben is calling the plays and getting the gameplan he wants. In the same breath they want BA gone, b/c he's "handcuffing Ben, is too predictable, is an idiot...blah blah blah".

People get pissed if they come out and go run, run, pass. People get pissed if they come out and go pass, run, pass. People get pissed if they go pass, pass, run. People get pissed if they go pass, pass, pass.

The only time people don't get pissed is if they go run, run, run. B/c Steelers fans are dinosaurs, they are living in the past, thinking we are still a running team. Could we have more blance? absolutely. However, you can't ignore guys like Ward, Holmes, Miller, Wallace, and Moore out of the backfield. I have no problem with them throwing 30+ times a game. Dudes like Holmes and Wallace should targeted at least 6+ times a game. And throwing on 3rd and 2? How many times has Heath got an easy 6-8 yards on a quick pass to him. Throwing the ball on 3rd and 2 is probably more efficient than running, with the lack of confidence there has been in the O-line.

Its not so much that you do come out a throw, but if you come out in an empty back set, its not hard for the defensive coordinator to figure whats coming. At least keep the back in so that they'll have to have a spy on him, and take away one of their guys. Mendenhall is a darn great check-down guy too. (This text was meant as an answer on those 3rd and 1)

It makes sense to throw a deep bomb on 2nd and 1 though. Its pretty much a "free" attempt (unless it gets picked off), because you know that you probably can just pound it up the middle on third down, and pull a QB sneak. Lots of teams does that.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-08-2010, 02:44 PM
Ben calling all his own plays is not the answer here either; you're missing the point that atleast I'm trying to make ( I don't know about everyone else..lol ). I never said Ben should call all his own plays; in general when we're in the no huddle and he's out there calling it on the fly he does very well, that's evident by our success when we do it ). There are times though too when we don't know who's calling the plays, we assume it's BA because he's the OC. The QB should have input into the playbook, but giving him free reign isn't the answer either.

The issues with BA are:

Rarely uses the no huddle: we all know it's a great tool to use when the offense is bogged down, and since we've been bogged down many times this year to say the least, where was it? BA himself said on more than one occasion that he should have called the no huddle more.

Redzone: How many times do we get in the redzone and they go backwards, or they just do 2 running plays that don't work, and then everybody knows we have to throw on 3rd down so they just either drop everybody back and dare us to throw it, or they send the house and Ben is on his butt (or worse yet he forces the issue and tosses a pick). If you can't run the ball between the 20's, you sure as hell can't run it inside the 20. We don't stay committed the running game, we just use it now and then. Some of that is the OL, I get it, but some of it is BA too and his want to throw the ball all the time. We are so unbalanced it's not even funny, and that's not the mark of a playoff team.

Short yardage: Everybody knows we can't run and therefore we rarely convert those situations on the ground. Also since we can't run on 3rd and short in the middle of the field we sure as hell can't do it on the goal line either. There has to be a renewed dedication to the running game, plain and simple. Make your changes to personnel however you want this offseason to fix the offensive line, but the play calling has to be there too. Ben wants the ball in his hands, any QB worth his weight in gold does too, there's no problem there. However I'm just saying if we don't fix the running game play calling and the running game blocking, we're gonna be in the same boat next year.

Going long: How many times do we go for it all on 1st down each time. Yes, first down is the time when you want to try for the big play, but we're doing downtown way too often then we need too and that causes 2nd and long and then puts us in a bad situation for 3rd down. We're totally predictable like that; teams know on first down we're going to throw it down field so they drop everybody back or they send the house and get in Ben's face to screw up the timing of it. Throw the ball downfield if you want, we have great receivers to make plays, but stop doing it ALL the time.

To comment on your point, yes I could sit there and watch a game and say, "we're going to run here" or "we're going to go long here", whether you believe it or not makes no difference to me, but I'm telling you it's not that hard to tell. If you watch this team for a couple games, you can tell almost exactly what we're going to do on any given situation. Yes, there were some times when he did mix things up, I'll give you that, but more often that not it was the same old same old every week. If you're a defensive coordinator, it wouldn't be hard to defense us, which is what we saw this year.

Second half: We go into a shell in the 2nd half of games where we just try to run and teams just laugh at us basically. The other thing we do is, we keep going with the gameplan of the first half, teams make adjustments and stop us, and then we can't adapt. If a team can't stop you then sure keep doing what you're doing, no problem, but when they stop you then you have to adapt. Again that comes back to being unpredictable, being able to come out and make changes to keep them off balance and counter what they do. That was our MO for the entire year, we were in 2010, the worst 2nd half team in the league hands down. Watch the Patriots, how many times do they come out in the 2nd half and completely run a different style of play calling then they did in the first half? Now this year they struggled with injuries, young team, and all but still they know how to game plan.

Gamplanning: It's one thing to do what you do, run the plays you want to run, execute what you are good at, but it's also another to gameplan. Good teams will expose the weaknesses of others, we however do not. We go against a team that has terrible pass coverage and we run it all day (and fail). We do against a team that can't stop the run and we pass it all day (and fail). You know that's true, it happened how many times this year. You go after what a team can't stop and you expose it until they prove to you they can stop it. We on the other hand never do that.

I'm not complaining about the great season that our WR's had this year, they are superb weapons to have,and I'm glad we use them..but the way we run the offense in general has to change. Get your balance back, get your head out of your *** in the 2nd half of the game.

JensK
01-08-2010, 03:05 PM
Good post TG. I've said for some time now, than when your best offensive weapon is no-huddle where the QB calls the plays, its time for your OC to either stop calling plays, or pack his ****...

steelersbabex25
01-08-2010, 03:44 PM
Going long: How many times do we go for it all on 1st down each time. Yes, first down is the time when you want to try for the big play, but we're doing downtown way too often then we need too and that causes 2nd and long and then puts us in a bad situation for 3rd down. We're totally predictable like that; teams know on first down we're going to throw it down field so they drop everybody back or they send the house and get in Ben's face to screw up the timing of it. Throw the ball downfield if you want, we have great receivers to make plays, but stop doing it ALL the time.

:plus1::plus1::plus1:. I have the same issue with him. And the worst is when he does that and goes run run with Mendenhall for 4 yards. If you're going to go long on first down, atleast be able to draw up some plays that will get us more than 2 yards a carry.

Scorp
01-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Did Ben save BA? Yes. You got lucky man.

DIESELMAN
01-08-2010, 03:47 PM
The only time people don't get pissed is if they go run, run, run. B/c Steelers fans are dinosaurs, they are living in the past, thinking we are still a running team. Could we have more balance? absolutely. However, you can't ignore guys like Ward, Holmes, Miller, Wallace, and Moore out of the backfield. I have no problem with them throwing 30+ times a game. Dudes like Holmes and Wallace should targeted at least 6+ times a game. And throwing on 3rd and 2? How many times has Heath got an easy 6-8 yards on a quick pass to him. Throwing the ball on 3rd and 2 is probably more efficient than running, with the lack of confidence there has been in the O-line.
Hey, I'm a dinosaur who loved the smash mouth style of pounding the ball. Times have changed and I have changed with it. I will always believe in running the ball though, we don't have to rush for 200 yards every game, but some kind of an effort whether its working or not has to be had. The opposing defense has to to kept honest, I realize our OL isn't the greatest thing in this world, but it does have its strengths. All I ask, is more playing to our players strengths not their weaknesses.

andyg1984
01-08-2010, 05:44 PM
my issue with going long is that Ben does not have a deep ball ..

i agree the no huddle should be used MUCH more ...

thanks for providing detailed reasons as to why you feel the way you do about arians as opposed to the rest of this thread which seemed to be filled with circular logic at best

DanRooney
01-08-2010, 06:18 PM
Teemont thinks Arians is a great OC, FWP is still a feature everydown back, Willie Gay should be given more time to develop...anyone else seeing a trend?

JensK
01-08-2010, 06:22 PM
Teemont thinks Arians is a great OC, FWP is still a feature everydown back, Willie Gay should be given more time to develop...anyone else seeing a trend?

The only trend im seeing is you, constantly trying to bash people, when they try to make a point, instead of making one back atm. Can we please just talk football, thank you. If you want to talk trash, we have a forum for that too.