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NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 08:10 PM
Just wondering if anyone can make a case for why Tomlin won last year for reasons other than inheriting Cowher's team, an All-Pro QB, and an amazing inherited defense?

TEEMONT
12-01-2009, 08:12 PM
sigh...it was only a matter of time before some people started blaming tomlin....

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 08:15 PM
sigh...it was only a matter of time before some people started blaming tomlin....

I hope someone else can make a better case than that.

Goodfrom55
12-01-2009, 08:16 PM
If there is anything IMO, that Tomlin needs to stop is his coddling of veteran players.

Other than that, the guy is A+ in my book.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 08:20 PM
If there is anything IMO, that Tomlin needs to stop is his coddling of veteran players.

Other than that, the guy is A+ in my book.

What specifically are you giving him an A+ for? What aspect of the Steelers team do you feel he is responsible for?

TEEMONT
12-01-2009, 08:20 PM
I hope someone else can make a better case than that.

people were all on his jock last year. Now we are 6-5, and still have a good shot at the playoffs, and people want to blame him.

Cowher lost how many AFCCG's?

75Steeler
12-01-2009, 08:23 PM
If there is anything IMO, that Tomlin needs to stop is his coddling of veteran players.

Other than that, the guy is A+ in my book.

I agree with you 100%. I think he needs to keep the same pressure on the veterans as he does the rookies. Other than that we would have to be on the team or staff to rate Tomlin. Time will also tell the tale of what kind of coach he will be.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 08:30 PM
people were all on his jock last year. Now we are 6-5, and still have a good shot at the playoffs, and people want to blame him.

Cowher lost how many AFCCG's?

sift through my hundred-something posts and see if I was ever on his jock and then remind me who Cowher had for a QB? Oh yeah, now I remember; Pro-bowlers Neil O'donnel, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.

I hope you got a good look at Dixon on Monday cause that is exactly how Kordell Stewart played and Cowher went to two AFC Conference games with him.

Big T
12-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Seriously?

And Dixon played quite well

ShellShock
12-01-2009, 08:37 PM
The HC for LSU has the same problem he won it all with Saban's guys but with his guys he sucks.

--- Added 12/1/2009 at 07:37 PM ---

Tomlin needs to tighten things up in the lockeroom. Things are out of control.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 08:43 PM
Seriously?

And Dixon played quite well

Kordell played quite well sometimes also

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 09:10 PM
:popcorn::popcorn:

He took a Cowher team that was 8-8 and in 2 short years they won a Super Bowl! He had everything to do with making the defense number 1 against the pass last year.

Since you blame all the bad years on the QB...who was the biggest Kordell cheerleader? Who kept starting him long after everyone else knew he wasn't a top notch QB?

LatrobePA
12-01-2009, 09:13 PM
Things will be fine....This Sunday is just the start of the 1 game at a time thinking!

SteelCityKid5
12-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Cowher was coach for fifteen years and retired. Did he leave to early? No because he said at the time he was done or tired with coaching.

As for Tomlin, same could be said about any coach who takes over a new team that has quality players. The guy got his players to play at a high level last year and they won the Super Bowl. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. You have no idea the amount of film he watches a week to prepare his team. Yeah its a great defense but it wouldnt have been great without Woodley with his sacks and Timmons' tackling and coverage.Tomlin drafted them. It was Tomlin who drafted Dixon and Wallace. Tomlin brought in veterans Mewelde Moore and Keyaron Fox. Oh and it was Tomlin who gave James Harrison opportunity to start. If he inherited Cowhers players then why are Foote and Haggans gone? Shouldnt he have kept them? Don't forget Tomlin didn't have to keep Lebeau but he did...that was his decision.


It's way to early to judge Tomlin. I like what he's doing and he should be a great coach in this league. The Rooneys trust him so why wouldnt I? Don't hate on a guy who is at his first rough spot in his young coaching career.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 09:19 PM
:popcorn::popcorn:

He took a Cowher team that was 8-8 and in 2 short years they won a Super Bowl! He had everything to do with making the defense number 1 against the pass last year.

Since you blame all the bad years on the QB...who was the biggest Kordell cheerleader? Who kept starting him long after everyone else knew he wasn't a top notch QB?

The same Cowher team that had won the Superbowl the year before they were 8-8 right?

And what exactly were Cowher's options to replace Kordell with? I'm sorry, maybe I missed a season where the front office gave Cowher another option other than Kent Graham.

SteelCityKid5
12-01-2009, 09:22 PM
[quote=NYCsteelersfan;320752]sift through my hundred-something posts and see if I was ever on his jock and then remind me who Cowher had for a QB? Oh yeah, now I remember; Pro-bowlers Neil O'donnel, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.


Not sure what your point is here... doesnt really make sense.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 09:24 PM
[quote=NYCsteelersfan;320752]sift through my hundred-something posts and see if I was ever on his jock and then remind me who Cowher had for a QB? Oh yeah, now I remember; Pro-bowlers Neil O'donnel, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.


Not sure what your point is here... doesnt really make sense.

I don't understand what it is you can't make sense of. It was in response to another post. Read the whole thread and see if you can make sense of it then.

SteelCityKid5
12-01-2009, 09:27 PM
No, its like your feeling sorry for Cowher for inheriting these QB's. It not just the front office. Cowher is equally at fault for bringing in those players.

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 09:28 PM
The same Cowher team that had won the Superbowl the year before they were 8-8 right?

And what exactly were Cowher's options to replace Kordell with? I'm sorry, maybe I missed a season where the front office gave Cowher another option other than Kent Graham.

Oh so it wasn't Cowhers fault... he was only playing with the cards the front office gave him.. :lol:

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 09:37 PM
No, its like your feeling sorry for Cowher for inheriting these QB's. It not just the front office. Cowher is equally at fault for bringing in those players.

Cowher had the team 11-5 or better every year with slop for a QB every season, I don't feel sorry for him, I respect him for making a hearty and tasty meal out of ****. Was he responsible for not drafting a good QB? I honestly don't know. What was the highest draft pick he ever had? And what great QB's did he pass up in his drafts? And who did he pass up those great QB's for?


Oh so it wasn't Cowhers fault... he was only playing with the cards the front office gave him.. :lol:

Oh noooo, you're absolutely right, Cowher actively drafted Kordell Stewart to be the future QB.. :lol:

SteelCityKid5
12-01-2009, 09:41 PM
Right and your reflecting on Cowhers whole coaching career while Tomlin has coached 3 seasons thus far. Big difference.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 09:47 PM
I hope someone looks up Cowhers #1 draft pick every year so we can see what was the highest pick he had and what great QB he had a chance at. I don't know how to look that up.

SteelCityKid5
12-01-2009, 09:50 PM
Or spell haha sorry I had to. It was too easy. But read my original post and Ill respond later on tonight or tomorrow.

BR7
12-01-2009, 10:00 PM
1992 - Leon Searcy (11) - QBs after, Tommy Maddox (23)
1993 - Deon Figures (23) - QBs after, none
1994 - Charles Johnson (17) - QBs after,none
1995 - Mark Bruener (27) - QBs after, none
1996 - Jermain Stephens (29) - QBs after, none
1997 - Chad Scott (24) - QBs after, Jim Druckenmiller (27)
1998 - Alan Faneca (26) - QBs after, none
1999 - Troy Edwards (13) - QBs after, none
2000 - Plaxico Burress (8) - QBs after, Chad Pennington (18)
2001 - Casey Hampton (19) - QBs after, none
2002 - Kendall Simmons (30) - QBs after, Patrick Ramsey (32)
2003 - Troy Polamalu (16) - QBs after, Kyle Boller (19)
2004 - Ben Roethlisberger (11) - QBs after, J.P. Lossman (22)
2005 - Heath Miller (30) - QBs after, none
2006 - Santonio Holmes (25) - QBs after, none

Those are only the Round 1 QBs taken after Pittsburgh picked. I'm not going to find each and every QB after for each round, lol.

[ source (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/) ]

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 10:05 PM
1992 - Leon Searcy (11)
1993 - Deon Figures (23)
1994 - Charles Johnson (17)
1995 - Mark Bruener (27)
1996 - Jermain Stephens (29)
1997 - Chad Scott (24)
1998 - Alan Faneca (26)
1999 - Troy Edwards (13)
2000 - Plaxico Burress (8)
2001 - Casey Hampton (19)
2002 - Kendall Simmons (30)
2003 - Troy Polamalu (16)
2004 - Ben Roethlisberger (11)
2005 - Heath Miller (30)
2006 - Santonio Holmes (25)

You're the man bro. So the highest picks he had before Roethlisberger at #11 is the 11th pick in '92, the 13th in '99, and the 8th in '00. Any great QB's passed up for Searcy, Burress and that bust of a WR Edwards?

BR7
12-01-2009, 10:14 PM
I had to do the post in stages, it's edited now with the QB passed on for Round 1

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 10:19 PM
I hope someone looks up Cowhers #1 draft pick every year so we can see what was the highest pick he had and what great QB he had a chance at. I don't know how to look that up.

Did you watch last nights game? He could've had either of those 2 QB's but of course we didn't need to draft a QB because Kordell was Bills boy! :yesnod:

Oh by the way I think Bill drafted T-Martin before Brady went! hahahahah

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 10:23 PM
I had to do the post in stages, it's edited now with the QB passed on for Round 1

You really are the man, thank you.

Now with this evidence, to those who tried to make the point that Cowher himself was at fault for having miserable and sloppy QB's every year, is it fair to say that Bill Cowher actually never had the opprotunity to obtain a QB any better than average at best?

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 10:25 PM
You really are the man, thank you.

Now with this evidence, to those who tried to make the point that Cowher himself was at fault for having miserable and sloppy QB's every year, is it fair to say that Bill Cowher actually never had the opprotunity to obtain a QB any better than average at best?

Sure if you consider Drew Brees and Tom Brady Average!


Speaking of Brees..he is fun to watch...I put him right up there with Peyton, Brady & Ben

BR7
12-01-2009, 10:26 PM
Did you watch last nights game? He could've had either of those 2 QB's but of course we didn't need to draft a QB because Kordell was Bills boy! :yesnod:

Oh by the way I think Bill drafted T-Martin before Brady went! hahahahah


What about the other 31 teams that picked 5 rounds before Brady? They all missed too.
Brees.. went in round 2 (32). So everyone had a shot at him as well.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Did you watch last nights game? He could've had either of those 2 QB's but of course we didn't need to draft a QB because Kordell was Bills boy! :yesnod:

Oh by the way I think Bill drafted T-Martin before Brady went! hahahahah

How many teams passed on Brady and Brees? All 32 you say? And how many rounds did all 32 teams pass on them? 5 rounds for Brady and 1 round for Brees? Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure you and Tomlin would've taken Brady in the first round if you had the opprotunity. I hope they interview you the day they fire Tomlin.

BR7
12-01-2009, 10:30 PM
Here are the QBs taken in Cowhers tenure.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_query.cgi?pos=QB&round_1=1&round_2=30&tm=all&year_1=1992&year_2=2006&conference=any&type=

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 10:39 PM
How many teams passed on Brady and Brees? All 32 you say? And how many rounds did all 32 teams pass on them? 5 rounds for Brady and 1 round for Brees? Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure you and Tomlin would've taken Brady in the first round if you had the opprotunity. I hope they interview you the day they fire Tomlin.

What's that supposed to mean? Only the first round of the draft counts? Here's your question.


is it fair to say that Bill Cowher actually never had the opprotunity to obtain a QB any better than average at best?

No it's not fair to say that.. he took Tee Martin over a certain HOF and passed on one of the top 30r 4 qb's in the game...all at a time when we needed a QB...It doesn't matter how many others passed on him. The fact remains that he hung onto Kordell much longer than he should have. Tomlin may do the same thing with someone else time will tell.

I'm not sure what the hell you mean by saying you hope they interview me, relax dude it's a simple discussion on a boring Tuesday night.

NYCsteelersfan
12-01-2009, 10:46 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Only the first round of the draft counts? Here's your question.



No it's not fair to say that.. he took Tee Martin over a certain HOF and passed on one of the top 30r 4 qb's in the game...all at a time when we needed a QB...It doesn't matter how many others passed on him. The fact remains that he hung onto Kordell much longer than he should have. Tomlin may do the same thing with someone else time will tell.

I'm not sure what the hell you mean by saying you hope they interview me, relax dude it's a simple discussion on a boring Tuesday night.

I hope they interview you means you're obviously smarter than 32 NFL head coaches who passed on Brady for 5 rounds and passed on Brees for 1 round. Your original point was that it was Cowher's fault he had sloppy QB's, the drafts prove he never had a high enough pick to take a QB who was even projected to put up average numbers. So unless he was a psychic, He had sloppy QB's for his tenure because he had no choice, UNLESS Larry from New Jersey had been in the room and said, "psssst Bill, take that Brady/Brees guy that no one has ever heard of, he's a QB and we need one."

LarryNJ
12-01-2009, 10:57 PM
Whatever dude

Big T
12-02-2009, 12:12 AM
Are you even a Steelers fan? because it really sounds like you are rooting for Mike T to fail...

If he is such a ****** coach then why, every offseason, do you hear about all these teams looking for "the next Mike Tomlin"? The man won the superbowl in his second year...this is only his third...come on now...the guy has one 3 game losing streak in 3 years and you are ready to fire him....seriously?

coldrolled
12-02-2009, 06:53 AM
Are you even a Steelers fan? because it really sounds like you are rooting for Mike T to fail...

If he is such a ****** coach then why, every offseason, do you hear about all these teams looking for "the next Mike Tomlin"? The man won the superbowl in his second year...this is only his third...come on now...the guy has one 3 game losing streak in 3 years and you are ready to fire him....seriously?


Arians is the only rust on this team. well maybe the ST coach too but he may have needed some more field players.

Why dont you historians see how many OC's Cowher had while being Boss.

I think this is Tomlins only weakness. he needs to bench a coach and he cant.

maybe its not in his hands.

LatrobePA
12-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Arians is the only rust on this team. well maybe the ST coach too but he may have needed some more field players.

Why dont you historians see how many OC's Cowher had while being Boss.

I think this is Tomlins only weakness. he needs to bench a coach and he cant.

maybe its not in his hands.


Bingo!

Richmond Rukus
12-02-2009, 09:37 AM
I hope they interview you means you're obviously smarter than 32 NFL head coaches who passed on Brady for 5 rounds and passed on Brees for 1 round. Your original point was that it was Cowher's fault he had sloppy QB's, the drafts prove he never had a high enough pick to take a QB who was even projected to put up average numbers. So unless he was a psychic, He had sloppy QB's for his tenure because he had no choice, UNLESS Larry from New Jersey had been in the room and said, "psssst Bill, take that Brady/Brees guy that no one has ever heard of, he's a QB and we need one."

I wasn't aware head coaches made all the draft selections. Sure sounds like it the way they are getting the praise/blame for draft picks. Maybe we should just fire Kevin Colbert if he has no impact in the decision making.

jpele
12-02-2009, 10:57 AM
I think the reason people blame Tomlin is because he's the head coach and deserves the balme.

When ST's make mistakes,the head coach must figure out the source of the problem. Tomlin has fires a couple players and replaced them with guys nobody else wanted.

Question, is the problem fixed ? Who do YOU blame,surely the ST coach isn't going to fire himself. I blame Tomlin.

When you have a very talented offense that fails to put points on the board week after week who do you blame. For a week or two you can blame the OC,but when it's a weekly event it falls on the head coach.

When your defense fails to close out games when you have the lead,who do you blame.After one week you can say we missed Troy or the DC called a bad game,but when it happens weekly,it falls on the head coach.

Its easy to say well Troys' out or say the offense should score more points. But when your defense is dependent on one player you have big troubles. And its the job of the HC to correct whats wrong.

Is Mike Tomlin doing his job ? My answer right now is no. I think he's a very good coach but his inexperience is playing a huge role in what is happening with the Steelers. Remember everything that happens to Tomlin is a new experience for him,you learn from your mistakes.

Richmond Rukus
12-02-2009, 01:45 PM
I think the reason people blame Tomlin is because he's the head coach and deserves the balme.

When ST's make mistakes,the head coach must figure out the source of the problem. Tomlin has fires a couple players and replaced them with guys nobody else wanted.

Question, is the problem fixed ? Who do YOU blame,surely the ST coach isn't going to fire himself. I blame Tomlin.

When you have a very talented offense that fails to put points on the board week after week who do you blame. For a week or two you can blame the OC,but when it's a weekly event it falls on the head coach.

When your defense fails to close out games when you have the lead,who do you blame.After one week you can say we missed Troy or the DC called a bad game,but when it happens weekly,it falls on the head coach.

Its easy to say well Troys' out or say the offense should score more points. But when your defense is dependent on one player you have big troubles. And its the job of the HC to correct whats wrong.

Is Mike Tomlin doing his job ? My answer right now is no. I think he's a very good coach but his inexperience is playing a huge role in what is happening with the Steelers. Remember everything that happens to Tomlin is a new experience for him,you learn from your mistakes.

:plus1: That about sums it up. Good post.

NYCsteelersfan
12-02-2009, 03:54 PM
Are you even a Steelers fan? because it really sounds like you are rooting for Mike T to fail...

Plain dumb


I wasn't aware head coaches made all the draft selections. Sure sounds like it the way they are getting the praise/blame for draft picks. Maybe we should just fire Kevin Colbert if he has no impact in the decision making.

Draft picks weren't my point at all, Larry from Jersey was the one who tried to use draft picks as evidence for Cowher being a ****** head coach cause he never drafted a good QB and that's why he always had miserable QB's. (even though he still did great with those miserable QB's)


:plus1: That about sums it up. Good post.

I agree 100%

LarryNJ
12-02-2009, 04:35 PM
:lol:

Dude are you for real? You just won't give up will you?

NYCsteelersfan
12-02-2009, 04:57 PM
:lol:

Dude are you for real? You just won't give up will you?

What am I supposed to give up on exactly Larry?

NCSteeler
12-03-2009, 02:05 AM
I'm not going to dig Cowher for grabbing Hampton and missing Brees! But who the hell has your mistake prone QB, in the AFCCG throwing picks on the goal line, and not running Bettis? Sounds liek a coaching decision to me. I'm glad we ha good years with Cowher, but they should have been a lot better. Of course we were cheated a few of those years.

Tomlin on the other hand, doesn't have enough history to judge. I think Steel Mom Made some good arguments for things that Tomlin was directly responsible for and helped get this team to the SB.