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View Full Version : FB use in offense?



tuggysteel822
09-09-2009, 02:19 AM
I know this is gonna be a stupid question, but do any of you think that since Carey Davis was cut and Frank "the tank" Summers was kept, do you think that we'll line up more with a FB in the formation on prime running downs instead of the two TE set?

I've been thinking about that and haven't heard anything specific about it. What do yinz think?

Zachintosh66
09-09-2009, 08:04 AM
FB is extinct in BA eyes...

yinzer
09-09-2009, 08:28 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm

Fullback a dirty word
Arians claims there is no fullback in his offense and never will be. The coordinator could be a little sensitive to the criticism often aimed his way for not using a fullback the way they did under previous coordinators, especially when they had Dan Kreider.

"There's not a fullback on the roster," Arians said. "There's a running back who plays fullback, a tight end who plays fullback. I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm#ixzz0QbzlUuO9

Just as a side note: Arians is a hard-headed prick.

steelcitysfinestXL
09-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Frank is a better lead blocker, better ball carrier and prob a bit cheaper than Davis. Those would be my reasons to why the FO kept him! IMHO our weapons are our depth at wr 1-5 are solid at worst and miller can excel in 4 wr sets as a flex te. I really think fb will be limited this year on o unless we are in short yardage or running the clock!

Richmond Rukus
09-09-2009, 08:54 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm

Fullback a dirty word
Arians claims there is no fullback in his offense and never will be. The coordinator could be a little sensitive to the criticism often aimed his way for not using a fullback the way they did under previous coordinators, especially when they had Dan Kreider.

"There's not a fullback on the roster," Arians said. "There's a running back who plays fullback, a tight end who plays fullback. I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm#ixzz0QbzlUuO9

Just as a side note: Arians is a hard-headed prick.

Reading that made me sick to my stomach. I would love to see a Kreider style FB on this team.

steelcitysfinestXL
09-09-2009, 09:44 AM
Reading that made me sick to my stomach. I would love to see a Kreider style FB on this team.

Not saying you arent entitled to your opinion... but look at the strengths in our offense.

WRs: The depth has doubled with the additions of speedsters like McDonald and Wallace. Sweed is going to have a coming out party this season (just ask Ktrain)... Mark it down! And thats all behind 2 SB MVPS in Ward and Holmes.

TEs: Miller is as solid as it gets. Clutch on third and in the redzone! A beast after the catch and can block in MAX pass pro! Spaeth offers a big target who SHOULD grow in this offense under BA's 2 TE system.

RBs: While we lack in ability to run block and maintain a decent ypc, our RB's are deep. Parker, Mende an Moore are ALL dangerous with the ball in open space! Moore is a THREAT to catch the ball out of the backfield. If Mendenhal's final season at Ill. was any indication, he should be an asset in the passing game!

QB: Ben Roethlisberger...Nuff said

Its obvious our talent on offense have pushed us to being MORE of a passing game then we have historically been!

BlacknGold Bleeder
09-09-2009, 09:46 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm


"There's not a fullback on the roster," Arians said. "There's a running back who plays fullback, a tight end who plays fullback. I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one."

.

just goes to show how stupid he is.. i mean why would ya need an extra blocker with our line??

Blazedby92
09-09-2009, 09:49 AM
I always wanted to have a great high powered offense but to be able to pound the ball up the gut was nice to and if we had both man that would just compliment our D. The season hasn't started yet so maybe we will be surprised.

igor0190
09-09-2009, 11:07 AM
Bottom line is that you put the best players on the field. You would need a pretty freaking talented FB that could catch out of the backfield to ever consider having them on the field. Thus is why we only need a guy like David Johnson and Tank for goaline situations, if that.

Richmond Rukus
09-09-2009, 11:11 AM
Not saying you arent entitled to your opinion... but look at the strengths in our offense.

WRs: The depth has doubled with the additions of speedsters like McDonald and Wallace. Sweed is going to have a coming out party this season (just ask Ktrain)... Mark it down! And thats all behind 2 SB MVPS in Ward and Holmes.

TEs: Miller is as solid as it gets. Clutch on third and in the redzone! A beast after the catch and can block in MAX pass pro! Spaeth offers a big target who SHOULD grow in this offense under BA's 2 TE system.

RBs: While we lack in ability to run block and maintain a decent ypc, our RB's are deep. Parker, Mende an Moore are ALL dangerous with the ball in open space! Moore is a THREAT to catch the ball out of the backfield. If Mendenhal's final season at Ill. was any indication, he should be an asset in the passing game!

QB: Ben Roethlisberger...Nuff said

Its obvious our talent on offense have pushed us to being MORE of a passing game then we have historically been!

Were talking 1 roster spot. Formerly Davis' and now Summers spot, to increase the productivity of the running game. We could have everything you are talking about and a better running game. Seems like a no brainer, but then again, that may be exactly what Arians is.

steelcitysfinestXL
09-09-2009, 12:04 PM
Bottom line is that you put the best players on the field. You would need a pretty freaking talented FB that could catch out of the backfield to ever consider having them on the field. Thus is why we only need a guy like David Johnson and Tank for goaline situations, if that.

That pretty much sums it up!! A guy like Summers is SUPPOSED to be a pretty nice reciever out of the backfield. Plus when he gets a hat on his man he moves foward! Davis was a stalemate at best. And Davis was NO threat to run. They must of saw something they liked in Frank for the FEW times the plan to used a traditional fullback.

Igor is right and proves my point! Our best "playmakers" are our WR's and Heath. Our Rb's (behind our line) have to make the best of their carries and be able to catch out of the back field. I expect ALOT more RB screens and draws from 2 te, trips bunch WR and single back passing sets! Ben is our best player and this is slowly evolving into his offense. I know Tomlin wanted to keep the ball control element in our O, but our personel doesnt really support running as much as it has in the past. Gotta work with what you have and this WR corp looks the best it has in years!

greennick
09-09-2009, 02:08 PM
Were talking 1 roster spot. Formerly Davis' and now Summers spot, to increase the productivity of the running game. We could have everything you are talking about and a better running game. Seems like a no brainer, but then again, that may be exactly what Arians is.

You think there is someone out there that can do a much better job than Summers? At least, so much a better job that it would be worth dumping Summers to have him dressed for only a few plays a game? Keeping in mind Summers lead UNLV for both rushing and receiving. And the main difference between a FB and a RB is the RB runs with the ball and the FB runs without it.

KemoTherapy
09-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Arian's attitude is the kind of stuff that gets people fired. Steelers won the S.B. last year despite the lack of ability to run the ball. Doesn't happen very often.

Richmond Rukus
09-09-2009, 03:53 PM
You think there is someone out there that can do a much better job than Summers? At least, so much a better job that it would be worth dumping Summers to have him dressed for only a few plays a game? Keeping in mind Summers lead UNLV for both rushing and receiving. And the main difference between a FB and a RB is the RB runs with the ball and the FB runs without it.

That's a joke right. I assume it is. I'm really surprised anyone would support a system with no FB, especially from a franchise that prides itself on a steady run game and good defense. It makes no sense to have no FB on the roster, yet utilize the FB position in the playbook, because plain and simple, we don't have the kind of blocker at the FB position that improves our running game. McHugh actually did a pretty good job, but he is out for the season. You ask is there someone out there right now. Not sure, because we haven't addressed the FB position when we needed to, and no, I don't think Summers is the answer. IMO, the running game will continue to faulter until we find an adequate blocker. I will gladly eat crow if this is not the case. It's painfully obvious Arians is against this line of thought, so I hope he at least starts utilizing the TE position more than he has in the past.

greennick
09-09-2009, 04:46 PM
That's a joke right. I assume it is. I'm really surprised anyone would support a system with no FB, especially from a franchise that prides itself on a steady run game and good defense. It makes no sense to have no FB on the roster, yet utilize the FB position in the playbook, because plain and simple, we don't have the kind of blocker at the FB position that improves our running game. McHugh actually did a pretty good job, but he is out for the season. You ask is there someone out there right now. Not sure, because we haven't addressed the FB position when we needed to, and no, I don't think Summers is the answer. IMO, the running game will continue to faulter until we find an adequate blocker. I will gladly eat crow if this is not the case. It's painfully obvious Arians is against this line of thought, so I hope he at least starts utilizing the TE position more than he has in the past.

Not a joke at all. Not talking about the old school full backs, such as Franco, but the new style of pure blocking full back. The guy that is used on short yardage plays to go forward and try and create a running lane for a more agile RB to bust through. Or maybe catch a short pass on a play fake. Why can't a guy like Summers do this? How many specific full backs are there left in the league? Even guys like Mclain, though he is normally ran from the FB position, is hardly a FB as they are used today, way more of a straight up RB.

Is there any reason Summers couldn't do it that you know of? All he needs to do is run forward and push a guy over. At least if he is playing FB we don't need to worry about his ball control. I am willing to give him a chance before I knock his blocking. Maybe he'll surprise. :yellowthumb:

Also, yeah, I too hope he starts using the TE position properly. We have one of the best TE's in the league, but nobody but us knows it as he is only allowed to do a small portion of what he is capable of.

Dude487
09-10-2009, 06:16 AM
It's amazing how quick people are to say Arians is stupid because he doesn't know what he is doing

NEWSFLASH- He knows better than any of you. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the offense. Want an extra blocker? There's heath blocking on almost 50 % of the plays. Bruce generally used 3 wideouts, giving our QB more options. A fullback just takes away his options

I'm not saying smashmouth football is dead, but it certainly isn't the way to win a championship

One ben/ tomlin/ or the rooneys complain about Arians, THEN we'll have a problem. But as for now, he's a super bowl winning O Coordinator that knows more about NFL offenses than all of you here combined

Richmond Rukus
09-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Not a joke at all. Not talking about the old school full backs, such as Franco, but the new style of pure blocking full back. The guy that is used on short yardage plays to go forward and try and create a running lane for a more agile RB to bust through. Or maybe catch a short pass on a play fake. Why can't a guy like Summers do this? How many specific full backs are there left in the league? Even guys like Mclain, though he is normally ran from the FB position, is hardly a FB as they are used today, way more of a straight up RB.

Is there any reason Summers couldn't do it that you know of? All he needs to do is run forward and push a guy over. At least if he is playing FB we don't need to worry about his ball control. I am willing to give him a chance before I knock his blocking. Maybe he'll surprise. :yellowthumb:

Also, yeah, I too hope he starts using the TE position properly. We have one of the best TE's in the league, but nobody but us knows it as he is only allowed to do a small portion of what he is capable of.

It is impossible for me to say whether or not Summers can do this at this point, but obviously I have my doubts since we have had very limited exposure to him in the pre-season due to injury. I do not assume he will be a great blocker for the fact he made the roster. Carey Davis made the roster on several occasions and he was not an adequate blocker, nor was he an asset to the offense. I will give Summers this, he put an end to the Carey Davis era. For that, I am thankful. I have no problem with having a guy on the roster that can block, catch out of the backfield and run the ball when called upon, but decent blocking skills are a must, and we have not had that. Our running game has suffered because of it. We were 23rd in rushing last season, 29th (which is pathetic) in average yards per rush with 3.7. Something needs to be done to improve the running game, and it all starts with blocking. I will be fine without a FB on the team the day they show they can run it without one.

--- Added 9/10/2009 at 08:31 AM ---


It's amazing how quick people are to say Arians is stupid because he doesn't know what he is doing

NEWSFLASH- He knows better than any of you. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the offense. Want an extra blocker? There's heath blocking on almost 50 % of the plays. Bruce generally used 3 wideouts, giving our QB more options. A fullback just takes away his options

I'm not saying smashmouth football is dead, but it certainly isn't the way to win a championship

One ben/ tomlin/ or the rooneys complain about Arians, THEN we'll have a problem. But as for now, he's a super bowl winning O Coordinator that knows more about NFL offenses than all of you here combined

Dude,

First off, this is a message board, a place for fans to state their opinions on different subject matters regarding the team. Noone has claimed to be an NFL offensive Coordinator to my knowledge, so get off your soap box. And as far as being a Super Bowl winning Offensive Coordinator, this team only made the playoffs, let alone won the Super Bowl, by riding the defense. The credit here goes to Dick Lebeau, not Bruce Arians, as far as coordinators go in my book. Yes, the offense played better down the stretch, but the defense is what got this team as far as they went. The offense was 22nd in the league, the team was 2nd best in the AFC in the regular season. I'm not a real stats guy as I don't believe it tells the whole story, but the gap is just too big here.

tuggysteel822
09-11-2009, 03:49 AM
Jon Witman and Dan Kreider were the solid FB's that Morris, Foster, and Bettis had in front of them to blow open a hole.

K Train
09-11-2009, 04:23 AM
i cant even say how many times i screamed LOOK AT SUMMERS HES ****ING TERRIBLE tonight

Iron City South
09-11-2009, 09:04 AM
Arian's attitude is the kind of stuff that gets people fired. Steelers won the S.B. last year despite the lack of ability to run the ball. Doesn't happen very often.


Truer words could not have been spoken. Most of you know that I'm not an Arians fan at all .... the guy is about as sharp as a bowling ball, has zero imagination, and doesn't believe in half time adjustments.

Parker will never have the vision to be an elite runner in a single back set. Christ, even Parker himself admited that when he lobbied for a lead blocker last year. If Arians doesn't see the value in running a "power I" at this point ... knowing our OL is not a good one .... God help him.

cmerrifield
09-11-2009, 09:07 AM
However, I think we will just get rid of FWP instead of Arians, which I would rather get rid of Arians and get somebody more flexible and creative. We have great weapons, now we just need someone who can help us utilize them to their full potential.

Zachintosh66
09-11-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm not saying smashmouth football is dead

im not afraid of saying it... in Pittsburgh its dead!

At this point I cant say BA isnt right... we dont have a #1 RB so why would we have a smash mouth running game. Wow! Did i just say BA was right?!? My only problem is BA has no imgination... For instance last night, When Mendenhall came into the game on first and second down, I knew he was getting the carries. Then thrid down Moore comes in, guess what pass play. No big surprise and the titans werent either. Just be thankful Ben does what Ben does...

RIVERS OF STEEL
09-11-2009, 11:36 AM
You would think arians would get a clue card by now. very disheartening to see no change in the o line or a negative trending direction. I hope someone in management wakes up and smells the coffee 4 it's 2 late. Or is it 2 late already? Last nites win ok but, not reassuring. It is a real shame our offense looked like swiss cheese and could not run the ball at all. The front office totally neglected this most important aspect of the game for 2009. Why? $$$, banking instead on Ben for pennies. one demension offense very dangerous.

LatrobePA
09-11-2009, 11:52 AM
BA is bringing sexy back!

Blazedby92
09-11-2009, 12:38 PM
BA is bringing sexy back!

LMAO,:bunny:

Richmond Rukus
09-14-2009, 02:48 PM
After week 1 my stance on needing more of a FB style player has not changed. I strongly disagree with those of you who believe we need someone who is more athletic and can run and catch out of the backfield. It is painfully obvious we need a drastic improvement in blocking more than anything else or we will again be a 1 dimensional offense. Our running game looked down right pathetic. A Kreider style player is badly needed in this offense. Parker is simply not comfortable in 1 back sets, hence the reason he has lobbied for a FB on more than one occasion if memory serves me correctly. Moore is probably the best fit at running back in the current system we are running.

Iron City South
09-14-2009, 03:11 PM
Parker is simply not comfortable in 1 back sets, hence the reason he has lobbied for a FB on more than one occasion if memory serves me correctly. Moore is probably the best fit at running back in the current system we are running.

:plus1: