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darnik44
02-07-2009, 08:06 AM
http://www.nflspot.com/index.php/ncaa-nfl-draft/nfl-prospect-analysis/845-prospects-of-the-day.html

BlackGold4vr
02-07-2009, 01:05 PM
2 candidates jump off that page for me.


Tyson Jackson is moving up draft boards and I no longer think that he will slip down far enough to be within our range. Too many teams are running the 3-4 defense and this guy is clearly the top 3-4 DE. Hard for me to believe that 31 other teams with at least a dozen running a 3-4 defense will pass on this guy. He is up to 20th overall on scout.com's draft board.

Eric Wood is someone that B&G4vr32 has been talking about as one of his dark horse guys. Love the scouting report here in this article which calls Wood the most versatile lineman in this years draft. Can play guard or center. "He's athletic, with great feet. He does a very good job blocking in the second level. Woods has the make-up to be a perrenial pro bowler in years to come.


The Steelers are going to have some very tough decisions to make. Lots of these guys we like fall somewhere in the middle of a draft round. For example Wood is currently an early to mid 3rd round prospect (80). He won't fall to 96. So do we pick him in the 2nd at (64)? Same thing in the first round. Lots of mid 2nd round players who won't be there by our second pick. Do we trade down to grab these guys for their appropriate value or do we move up? I think Tyson Jackson is clearly off the radar unless we moved up to get him. Lots will depend on who we are able to resign. For example if we resign Max Starks it gives us some wiggle room to perhaps go after a center like Alex Mack or Eric Wood. Still high on Tyronne Green (G) as a 5th or 6th rounder. Love the scouting report from the senior bowl on Green, "delivers the best pop off the line, best pulling guard at the senior bowl". We know the Steelers still love to pull their guards on running plays. Still anticipate a lot more movement after the senior bowl. Most guys are locked into a general draft position but there are always guys who have great combines (Chris Henry comes to mind from last year) that shoot up the boards. You have 5 or 6 of these shooting stars go up the board it just might bump someone else down enough spots to put them within our range. Can't wait to see who we get.

:6smile:

darnik44
02-07-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm right there with you on Jackson and Wood. I like them both quite a bit. I'd be happy with Jackson in the first and Wood in the 2nd. It sort of looks like both could be out of reach in each round.

BlackGold4vr
02-07-2009, 05:06 PM
Heres a possible scenario that could play out.

Round 1 - 32
a. package our 1st and 3rd to move up for the following players:
1. Any of the top 4 OT's - Oher, A. Smith, J. Smith, E. Monroe
or Tyson Jackson DE

b. stay put
2. Take Phil Loadholt Ok (OT) or Duke Robinson (G) Ok


Round 2 - 64
Eric Wood (C) Lou He could compete for the starting jobs at center or either guard position. Hartwig isn't a franchise type of center, he was a stop gap until something better came along.


Round 3 - 96/100
a. Fenuki Tupou (OT) Ore if we haven't already drafted a tackle.
or
b. Sen'Derrick Marks (DT/DE) Aub if we already picked an OT but didn't get Tyson Jackson.

c. Best available kick returner if we didn't move up and still have 2 3rd round picks


Round 4 - 132
Rashad Johnson (S) Ala or Curtis Taylor (S) LSU We are thin behind Troy and Ryan. AS is on his way out IMO.


Round 5 - 168
Quinn Johnson (FB) LSU or Darryl Richard (DT/DE) GT


Round 6 - 204
a. Tyronne Green (G) Aub Best pulling guard in draft
or
b. Brannann Southerland (FB) Geo if we didn't get Q. Johnson in 5th. Carey Davis MUST GO he fails at everything a fullback should be good at!


I want the following positions in this years draft:

OT - Oher > A.Smith > Monroe > J.Smith > Loadholt > Britton > Tupou
G - Robinson > Wood > Green
C - Mack > Wood
DE - Jackson > Marks > Richards
S - Johnson > Taylor
KR - Thigpen > Williams
FB - Q.Johnson > Southerland

darnik44
02-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Heres a possible scenario that could play out.

Round 1 - 32
a. package our 1st and 3rd to move up for the following players:
1. Any of the top 4 OT's - Oher, A. Smith, J. Smith, E. Monroe
or Tyson Jackson DE

b. stay put
2. Take Phil Loadholt Ok (OT) or Duke Robinson (G) Ok


Round 2 - 64
Eric Wood (C) Lou He could compete for the starting jobs at center or either guard position. Hartwig isn't a franchise type of center, he was a stop gap until something better came along.


Round 3 - 96/100
a. Fenuki Tupou (OT) Ore if we haven't already drafted a tackle.
or
b. Sen'Derrick Marks (DT/DE) Aub if we already picked an OT but didn't get Tyson Jackson.

c. Best available kick returner if we didn't move up and still have 2 3rd round picks


Round 4 - 132
Rashad Johnson (S) Ala or Curtis Taylor (S) LSU We are thin behind Troy and Ryan. AS is on his way out IMO.


Round 5 - 168
Quinn Johnson (FB) LSU or Darryl Richard (DT/DE) GT


Round 6 - 204
a. Tyronne Green (G) Aub Best pulling guard in draft
or
b. Brannann Southerland (FB) Geo if we didn't get Q. Johnson in 5th. Carey Davis MUST GO he fails at everything a fullback should be good at!


I want the following positions in this years draft:

OT - Oher > A.Smith > Monroe > J.Smith > Loadholt > Britton > Tupou
G - Robinson > Wood > Green
C - Mack > Wood
DE - Jackson > Marks > Richards
S - Johnson > Taylor
KR - Thigpen > Williams
FB - Q.Johnson > Southerland

This all starts off really good, but sort of goes down hill after that. The idea of packaging the 1st and 3rd and moving up is very possible. That's how we got Santonio after winning SB 40. In fact, I believe if the Steelers do take a OT in the 1st round (baring somebody falling) it will be by them moving up. There's also the possibility of moving down from #32 and taking Eben Britton or William Beatty. Both would be a reach at #32. If they stay at #32, they will likely be drafting a CB or DE. CB is a much bigger need than most realize, and so is DE. Not for the right now, but for the future. The Steelers are able to be good year after year because they know there's a future to worry about as much as next year. Bryant McFadden is a FA, and I know teams will be throwing big bucks at him. Townsend is really close to retirement. That leaves Ike Taylor and William Gay. At DE, how many more years can we expect Aaron Smith to play? There's already a lack of depth there. Nick Eason is a solid backup, but not sure about him starting.

You have Loadholt there (he probably won't get drafted before the 4th round), and Duke Robinson won't be touched inside the top 50. Don't believe the hype on him.

Ideal draft. (In cases 2-4, they would have to fall slightly)

1. Macho Harris, CB/KR, Virginia Tech
2. Eric Wood, C/OG, Louisville
3. Kyle Moore, DE, Southern California
3. Fenuki Tupou, OT, Oregon (Supplemental Pick)
4. Terrence Taylor, DT/NT, Michigan
5. Tony Fiammetta, FB, Syracuse
BPA the rest of the way.

I'll honestly be shocked if they don't trade up atleast once somewhere. Really, how many areas is there even a roster spot up for grabs? Remember there's still guys like Ryan Mundy, Arnold Harrison, and a few others who all have a leg up.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-07-2009, 11:09 PM
I agree with you on Loadholt and I wouldn't think about drafting him until the 3rd round....But 4th round sounds right to me to.....I don't think Britton is that big of a reach at 32....He is projected at a late first/early second prospect.....OT is a big time need on this team especially if Starks, Smith, Essex all leave via free agency.....

Macho Harris is a solid player and he would fill a need at both corner and kick returner....But I wouldn't draft him in the first.......

BlackGold4vr
02-07-2009, 11:40 PM
You have Loadholt there (he probably won't get drafted before the 4th round), and Duke Robinson won't be touched inside the top 50. Don't believe the hype on him.

Ideal draft. (In cases 2-4, they would have to fall slightly)

1. Macho Harris, CB/KR, Virginia Tech
2. Eric Wood, C/OG, Louisville
3. Kyle Moore, DE, Southern California
3. Fenuki Tupou, OT, Oregon (Supplemental Pick)
4. Terrence Taylor, DT/NT, Michigan
5. Tony Fiammetta, FB, Syracuse
BPA the rest of the way.

I'll honestly be shocked if they don't trade up atleast once somewhere. Really, how many areas is there even a roster spot up for grabs? Remember there's still guys like Ryan Mundy, Arnold Harrison, and a few others who all have a leg up.


Kyle Moore in the third? He will probably go 7th round or undrafted. Currently ranked 233 on scout.coms board. Plus he is undersized for a 3-4 DE.

I like Marcus Thigpen at KR......the dude is a badass!

Looks like we do agree on a couple players.

I wouldn't be too upset if we took a CB if we don't resign McFadden.

And I think you are wrong about Loadholt, he might not go in the first but he will not be around by the third. I think he could be too big for LT but he could make a badass RT. Dude can move bodies out the way period! No doubt our backs would love running behind the lanes he would open.

I also think we could do better than Terrance Taylor. The way people ran right through Michigans defense this year I didn't even realize they had one on the field! :lol:

Fiametta works for me except that he is projected mid-fourth. We gotta do something because Carey Davis simply isn't getting it done in any department. Dude is a ****** lead blocker, terrible pass blocker, and for a big guy seems to always go down on first contact and NEVER picks up first downs/touchdowns in short yardage situations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKP2XSX8_O4

steelcityrockers
02-08-2009, 12:28 AM
Duke Robinson remains the best guard in the draft and could easily play Right Tackle as well. If he doesn't go in the first, he won't last deep into the second.

Loadholt is a First Round prospect. He is a massive tackle who may not quite have the feet to play LT but is an incredible drive blocker and is an astounding prospect at RT.

Macho Harris is trash. He went to the Senior Bowl at 5'10'' and does not have the hips to sty with receivers. He is a decent KR and will probably be there in the 3rd round.

I love Marcus Thigpen as a RS/3rd Down Back. He is insanely fast.

K Train
02-08-2009, 12:36 AM
Duke Robinson remains the best guard in the draft and could easily play Right Tackle as well. If he doesn't go in the first, he won't last deep into the second.

Loadholt is a First Round prospect. He is a massive tackle who may not quite have the feet to play LT but is an incredible drive blocker and is an astounding prospect at RT.

Macho Harris is trash. He went to the Senior Bowl at 5'10'' and does not have the hips to sty with receivers. He is a decent KR and will probably be there in the 3rd round.

I love Marcus Thigpen as a RS/3rd Down Back. He is insanely fast.

i agree with everything except harris being "trash", hes not the best corner prospect but hes not the worst. and hes a phenominaml STer

BlackGold4vr
02-08-2009, 12:43 AM
I love Marcus Thigpen as a RS/3rd Down Back. He is insanely fast.


Do a little research on Thigpen if you haven't heard of him. He is 5'9 199lb and has ludicrous speed. Read through Indiana's game summaries and you will find them littered with big plays by Marcus Thigpen. I don't even see him ranked on scout.coms draft board so perhaps he can be had late on day 2 or even as a UFA.

:cya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjw1TKNALbM

Thomas_43
02-08-2009, 10:38 AM
I see you guys talking about us taking a full back, which I agree that we should. My brother in law however lives in the burgh and has heard them talking numerous times about how they don't want to use a full back in the run game and how they want to remain with going with 2 TE sets. I personally think this is why we didn't have the run game that we've had in the past.

As for drafting, I would love to see us trade up for a top tier tackle. If not, I think we really need to take a look at trading down. I think if we trade down to the mid 2nd, we could take a shot at Britton or even Macho Harris. Neither worth a 1st, but I'd be cool with spending a 2nd on them. Another guy who I personally think would play well in our defense is DE Robert Ayers outta Tennesse. He's only a 1 year starter, but I would like us to take a shot at him in the 2nd or 3rd. Similiar to what we did with Woodley.

darnik44
02-11-2009, 08:24 PM
I hear a lot of references to scout.com. They are possibly the worst place to get draft information. They have an agenda when they rank their players. They prefer to have players they highly touted out of high school ranked high.

Phil Loadholt - Will be lucky to get drafted inside of the first 3 rounds. I won't rule out him falling all the way to the 6th round. Chances are he goes in the 4th round. Write it down.

Duke Robinson - Absolutly, possitively won't be drafted any higher than the 50th pick. Write that down too.

Victor Harris is a fringe first round talent. No way he doesn't get drafted inside the first 50 picks.

Kyle Moore will be drafted inside the first 3 rounds. There's a very good chance he's gone by the time the Steelers pick in the 3rd. As for his size, yeah he's a little undersized. But when there's no need to throw him right into the fire, he will have plenty of time to gain 15 pounds. Brett Keisel was 269 when he was drafted. They developed him (like they've been doing for years in Pittsburgh), now look at him.

--- Added 2/11/2009 at 06:24 PM ---


I see you guys talking about us taking a full back, which I agree that we should. My brother in law however lives in the burgh and has heard them talking numerous times about how they don't want to use a full back in the run game and how they want to remain with going with 2 TE sets. I personally think this is why we didn't have the run game that we've had in the past.

As for drafting, I would love to see us trade up for a top tier tackle. If not, I think we really need to take a look at trading down. I think if we trade down to the mid 2nd, we could take a shot at Britton or even Macho Harris. Neither worth a 1st, but I'd be cool with spending a 2nd on them. Another guy who I personally think would play well in our defense is DE Robert Ayers outta Tennesse. He's only a 1 year starter, but I would like us to take a shot at him in the 2nd or 3rd. Similiar to what we did with Woodley.

I see you're on the right page. Trading up for a top tier OT I think is a very, very possible scenario. You also realize there's no need to reach for anybody. So many figure if the top OT's are taken it's a foregone conclusion that they must take Britton. Like you said, Britton simply isn't worth a first round pick. He's raw and a bit of a project. I highly doubt he starts anywhere next year baring injury. So trading down and taking a guy like Britton or William Beatty is another very possible scenario.

You also realize Macho Harris is a damn good player. He looks like a young "poor man's" Rod Woodson to me.

Robert Ayers would translate as a DE.

K Train
02-11-2009, 08:40 PM
duke robinson is better than justin blalock who went at the top of the 2nd. i think you might be underestimating just how valued olineman are

darnik44
02-11-2009, 08:50 PM
duke robinson is better than justin blalock who went at the top of the 2nd. i think you might be underestimating just how valued olineman are

Well, I've been a draftnik since 1989 and I'm a former coach, so I'm quite aware of the value teams place on offensive linemen. So I know interior linemen and LT's aren't so highly coveted. For an interior linemen to get drafted in the first round, they have to be a can't miss prospect.

In Robinson's case, he's just not that great. He's certainly nowhere near what many make him out to be. He plays high and doesn't bend his knees well at all. He doesn't finish off his blocks, and spends quite a bit of time on the ground. I've probably watched Robinson closer than any OL prospect this year. Blalock has become one of the better OG's in the league. He was once touted as a top 15 pick, and should have been. Robinson can't hold a candle to him. Eric Wood from Louisville is the guy I want.

Phil Loadholt is going to end up a 6-8 guard with bad feet. He showed at the Senior Bowl he doesn't even have adequate feet to play RT. He's just big and got a ton of hype last year because he was a junior college all-american before he got to Oklahoma.

K Train
02-11-2009, 08:55 PM
Well, I've been a draftnik since 1989 and I'm a former coach, so I'm quite aware of the value teams place on offensive linemen. So I know interior linemen and LT's aren't so highly coveted. For an interior linemen to get drafted in the first round, they have to be a can't miss prospect.

In Robinson's case, he's just not that great. He's certainly nowhere near what many make him out to be. He plays high and doesn't bend his knees well at all. He doesn't finish off his blocks, and spends quite a bit of time on the ground. I've probably watched Robinson closer than any OL prospect this year. Blalock has become one of the better OG's in the league. He was once touted as a top 15 pick, and should have been. Robinson can't hold a candle to him. Eric Wood from Louisville is the guy I want.

Phil Loadholt is going to end up a 6-8 guard with bad feet. He showed at the Senior Bowl he doesn't even have adequate feet to play RT. He's just big and got a ton of hype last year because he was a junior college all-american before he got to Oklahoma.

well, ive been alive since 1989 and i know that hype plays a big part in where players get drafted. He may not be that great but the fact remains there is alot of hype around him, hes got good size, good credentials, alot of experience against top competition and could potentially play RT. I would bet that he goes bottom first or early second.

ive siad loadholts footwork is gonna make or break him, but hes a massive man and has alot of hype too so who knows

darnik44
02-11-2009, 09:47 PM
well, ive been alive since 1989 and i know that hype plays a big part in where players get drafted. He may not be that great but the fact remains there is alot of hype around him, hes got good size, good credentials, alot of experience against top competition and could potentially play RT. I would bet that he goes bottom first or early second.

ive siad loadholts footwork is gonna make or break him, but hes a massive man and has alot of hype too so who knows

Hype gets players rated highly on draft sites, but teams do their homework. Trust me when I say Robinson won't get drafted in the 1st round because sites like scout.com say he should.

As for his competition, the Big 12 is known for it's prolific offenses and bad defense. Where he did face a solid defense was against Florida. He played horribly. When Oklahoma had the ball, I only watched Robinson.

K Train
02-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Hype gets players rated highly on draft sites, but teams do their homework. Trust me when I say Robinson won't get drafted in the 1st round because sites like scout.com say he should.

As for his competition, the Big 12 is known for it's prolific offenses and bad defense. Where he did face a solid defense was against Florida. He played horribly. When Oklahoma had the ball, I only watched Robinson.

you would like to think that teams do their homework....if teams did their homework there would never be a bust or a pro bowler that goes undrafted. some team will take a chance on him, maybe not first....but early second.

hes still got pro days and the combine so we will see i guess

darnik44
02-11-2009, 10:12 PM
you would like to think that teams do their homework....if teams did their homework there would never be a bust or a pro bowler that goes undrafted. some team will take a chance on him, maybe not first....but early second.

hes still got pro days and the combine so we will see i guess

I don't really see busts happening because of improper talent evaluation. I thinks it's simply a case of how the player responds once he becomes instantly rich. Think about it. You're a top 20 draft pick and you sign a contract guaranteeing you $20 mil. Most players continue to have that burning desire to be great. Others are at the club with their entourage.

As for undrafted and late rounders becoming pro bowlers, some players are simply overlooked. In fact, there's a lot of players that get overlooked. The difference there is they just don't get looked at, whereas a player a team is considering drafting high get a very long look.

It's been documented that teams holding very high draft picks have gone as far as talking to former high school and grade school classmates in an attempt to get a good idea about the person under the helmet. It seems each year teams do more and more to look inside the players heads and see what makes them tick.

$teelersRule
02-12-2009, 08:49 AM
question... what happened to Cieron Black from LSU wasn't he rated as one of the best tackles all year but i have not heard anything about him for a wile now. am i missing something? how could a player fall off the radar so fast?

darnik44
02-12-2009, 09:58 AM
question... what happened to Cieron Black from LSU wasn't he rated as one of the best tackles all year but i have not heard anything about him for a wile now. am i missing something? how could a player fall off the radar so fast?

Black was a mid 2nd round RT prospect. Black is only a junior and has decided to go back to LSU for his senior year.

My top 10 OT's for the 2010 Draft...

1. Russell Okung, 6-5, 300, Oklahoma State
2. Ciron Black, 6-5, 314, Louisiana State
3. Trinton Sturdivant, 6-5, 300, Georgia#
4. Sam Young, 6-8, 310, Notre Dame
5. Trent Williams, 6-5, 305, Oklahoma
6. Adam Ulatoski, 6-8, 310, Texas
7. Lee Ziemba, 6-8, 300, Auburn*
8. Anthony Davis, 6-6, 330, Rutgers*
9. Matt Reynolds, 6-6, 320, Brigham Young*
10. Kyle Hix, 6-7, 320, Texas*

Unless Black improves his feet in the off-season, he'll continue to be labeled a RT and will get passed up by a few OT's.

steelcityrockers
02-12-2009, 08:25 PM
Erm, Loadholt actually has fairly solid footwork. He is a good player. He will go No later than the 50th pick, barring decent pro day and combine workouts

Here is a scouting report on him by a well-known-in-the-football-world-scout. This was done last year, but it is still good.

http://www.newerascouting.com/profiler/viewprofile.php?id=163

darnik44
02-12-2009, 08:34 PM
Erm, Loadholt actually has fairly solid footwork. He is a good player. He will go No later than the 50th pick, barring decent pro day and combine workouts

Here is a scouting report on him by a well-known-in-the-football-world-scout. This was done last year, but it is still good.

http://www.newerascouting.com/profiler/viewprofile.php?id=163

You'll see. If that scouting report was even remotely correct, why did he only see reps at RT and OG at the Senior Bowl? That scouting report was the hype on him last year. He was a Junior College All-American, he's 6-8 and over 340 pounds, and the starting LT for the Oklahoma Sooners. Of course he's going to get a ton of hype. Absolute higest is mid 3rd for him, probably early 4th, as low as 6th round.

$teelersRule
02-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Black was a mid 2nd round RT prospect. Black is only a junior and has decided to go back to LSU for his senior year.

My top 10 OT's for the 2010 Draft...

1. Russell Okung, 6-5, 300, Oklahoma State
2. Ciron Black, 6-5, 314, Louisiana State
3. Trinton Sturdivant, 6-5, 300, Georgia#
4. Sam Young, 6-8, 310, Notre Dame
5. Trent Williams, 6-5, 305, Oklahoma
6. Adam Ulatoski, 6-8, 310, Texas
7. Lee Ziemba, 6-8, 300, Auburn*
8. Anthony Davis, 6-6, 330, Rutgers*
9. Matt Reynolds, 6-6, 320, Brigham Young*
10. Kyle Hix, 6-7, 320, Texas*

Unless Black improves his feet in the off-season, he'll continue to be labeled a RT and will get passed up by a few OT's.

thanks for the clarification thats just what i was asking for :yellowthumb:

steelcityrockers
02-12-2009, 11:30 PM
You'll see. If that scouting report was even remotely correct, why did he only see reps at RT and OG at the Senior Bowl? That scouting report was the hype on him last year. He was a Junior College All-American, he's 6-8 and over 340 pounds, and the starting LT for the Oklahoma Sooners. Of course he's going to get a ton of hype. Absolute higest is mid 3rd for him, probably early 4th, as low as 6th round.

Agree to disagree, but I think you're off your nut.