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Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 11:03 AM
I know its to late for this season. But how would you fix our O-line?

I hate drafting O-linemen in the first round, its boring, but it is needed. We have to go first rounder lineman, they maybe second rounder a wr. We need to throw more three step drop, and throw passes. But I think our receivers are are to small to make a push of the line. They arent open quick enough.

I also want a really good free agent lineman. I`m not sure who will be available but we need to make this priority.

Our first two rounds shouldn`t be a problem. On offense our Qb`s are secure, RB`s will be fine when we get Mendenhall back next season, I think we have three TE`s One great one and two solid back ups. Our receivers are weak, Ward is a stud, Holmes is above average, and Washington is also above average, slightly, Sweed????
On defense, our db`s are good, linebackers are great, and dL are deep.

So lets go first round O-line. Everyone agrees that Ben has had an off season, and Willie also has been under performing. Well most of this goes back to our O-line. Even Bens int. yesterday, he had no room to step into that pass, he had to throw off his back foot.

AZ_Steeler
12-29-2008, 11:49 AM
It probably wouldn't hurt to go o-line both first and second round! Might even want to find a better o-line coach like the Steelers had in Grimm because the line hasn't really been the same since his departure.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 11:56 AM
It probably wouldn't hurt to go o-line both first and second round! Might even want to find a better o-line coach like the Steelers had in Grimm because the line hasn't really been the same since his departure.

Good point! :yesnod:

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 12:01 PM
It probably wouldn't hurt to go o-line both first and second round! Might even want to find a better o-line coach like the Steelers had in Grimm because the line hasn't really been the same since his departure.

:ditto: Especially the coach part. :lol:

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 12:02 PM
:ditto: Especially the coach part. :lol:

Speaking of coaches, do we start with arians? Knowing that we have a weak line, shouldn`t he be calling plays accordingly?

Zachintosh66
12-29-2008, 12:28 PM
I'd like to Draft the Best OL position availible... then bring in a Vet also

Second round... DL
Thrid Round... KR/PR

Next years OL is gonna be up in the air... Do we re-sign Smith? Will he ever be healthy enuff again? Starks signed all that $, but sucks. Stapleton is a scrub at best. Colon is a joke. Colon is a FA too i think.

My Prediction on next years line:
OT: Rook/Vet/Hills
OG: Kemo
C: Hartwig
OG: Simmons
OT: Rook/Vet/Hills

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 12:29 PM
Pray.....

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 12:32 PM
Draft offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds if you have too but for God sakes do something. If we have to go another year with our Tackles as they are now we're in for more of the same.

Resign Kemo
Hartwig will be fine at Center
keep stapleton at RG and backup Center
get rid of Simmons
Move Colon to guard and let him fight it out with Stapleton and Kemo, and also can be used at emergency Tackle if needed
Re-sign Starks and move him to RT
Get a monster LT in the draft or FA
Keep Essex around as a backup


and there you go.. my :2cents: on the OL fix

LatrobePA
12-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Free agents! Draft 1 or 2, but we need vet. players. Hopefull this scare with Ben will force the FO to spend a little money this offseason!

Bring a bunch in, run them through and keep the best ones for the JOB!

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 12:41 PM
Free agents! Draft 1 or 2, but we need vet. players. Hopefull this scare with Ben will force the FO to spend a little money this offseason!

Bring a bunch in, run them through and keep the best ones for the JOB!

I agree! We have a good team NOW, and need players that can step in now, while building for the future!

AZ_Steeler
12-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Who on the list is worth going on after?

Matt Birk, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Birk is a Pro Bowl center who has gotten the job done for the Vikings for the last decade. He’s fairly athletic for a lineman and is playing alongside another great lineman, guard Steve Hutchinson, making Birk’s life even easier on the field. He’s grounded in Minnesota, so the chances of him choosing to leave seem slim at the moment. However, Minnesota is grooming John Sullivan in hopes that he will eventually replace Birk.

Mike Goff, UFA, San Diego Chargers
While the Chargers would probably prefer to keep Goff, the franchise has been effective in drafting and developing linemen and might look for Goff’s replacement at a better price. Goff has been a leader who simply goes about his business and players like running back Ladainian Tomlinson have benefited from his level of play. Goff has played for a quality line for some time and he’s a big part of the equation when it comes to success.

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers
A first round pick in 2003, Gross earned a starting role in his rookie season and held that role as a tackle for the entire season. His ability to step in and play well right away paid off for the Panthers, as the team put together a run to an NFC Championship. He’s continued being a starter since that rookie season and is a solid player. Carolina slapped the franchise tag on him for this season, and chances are he will be another team come ’09.

Mark Tauscher, UFA, Green Bay Packers
Tauscher is a seventh round pick that became a success story. In his first season in the NFL, he was forced into a starting role because of an injury to another player. Tauscher isn’t an elite player, but he is solid in his role as a starter and hasn’t missed a game since 2002. Tauscher could be at the top of many team’s lists because he could come cheaper than some of the other free agent lineman, but could be nearly or equally effective.

Other Offensive Lineman
Stacy Andrews, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Khalif Barnes, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Jordan Black, UFA, Houston Texans
Jason Brown, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Vernon Carey, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Jahri Evans, UFA, New Orleans Saints
George Foster, UFA, Detroit Lions
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Pete Kendall, UFA, Washington Redskins
Seth McKinney, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Jon Runyan, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Jeff Saturday, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Marvel Smith, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Tra Thomas, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Fred Weary, UFA, Houston Texans
John Welbourn, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs

Zachintosh66
12-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Gross is a beast and Im pretty sure they scouted Stacey Andrews coming out of the draft

BlackGold4vr
12-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Draft offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds if you have too but for God sakes do something. If we have to go another year with our Tackles as they are now we're in for more of the same.

Resign Kemo
Hartwig will be fine at Center
keep stapleton at RG and backup Center
get rid of Simmons
Move Colon to guard and let him fight it out with Stapleton and Kemo, and also can be used at emergency Tackle if needed
Re-sign Starks and move him to RT
Get a monster LT in the draft or FA
Keep Essex around as a backup


and there you go.. my :2cents: on the OL fix


I would shitcan Starks, Simmons, and Smith which would clear about 18 mil of cap space. The #1 pick MUST be a stud left tackle. We have to make whatever kind of deal we have to and move up into the top 15. We should be getting another 3rd round compensatory pick for Alan Faneca which could help us deal our regular (3rd rnd) pick. Package our 1st and 3rd to move up. Pick up a guy like Michael Oher or Andre Smith. Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas are just a few of the recent top tackles taken and these guys stepped up right away and contributed. Joe Thomas is going to his second consecutive pro-bowl. I'm with you on Hartwig and Kemo, they are both keepers. Also with you on letting Colon and Stapleton fight over the RG position. We will need to draft another tackle to compete with Tony Hill for the RT position. That would also give us depth at every position. Still have Essex on the bench and the loser of the RG battle between Colon and Stapleton, and the loser between Tony Hill and our #2 draft pick. :2cents:

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 12:10 PM ---


Free agents! Draft 1 or 2, but we need vet. players. Hopefull this scare with Ben will force the FO to spend a little money this offseason!

Bring a bunch in, run them through and keep the best ones for the JOB!


Many rookie players step right in and play great! Joe Thomas went to the pro-bowl his rookie year and is returning again this year. Ryan Clady is another rookie LT that has played great this year. Jake Long has started and played great for Miami this year as a rookie. You don't need free agents unless your draft picks aren't worth a ****. I don't know why people on this site have the mindset that players need 2 or 3 years seasoning on the bench before they can play in this league. That is just not true! With all the success Steeler fans have witnessed firsthand with rookies over the years you would think this has been debunked. Jack Lambert started and played the entire season his rookie year which culminated in our first superbowl win over the Vikings. He also managed to win the NFL rookie of the year award. Guess its a good thing Chuck Noll didn't favor the 2 to 3 year seasoning program so many on this site buy into! Players can be and are great right out of the gates if you are picking the right ones. Rookies step into starters roles all over the league every year and some even excel right away! What our team needs to do is be more active on draft day and make moves to go after (ie. make deals to move up) the players they want and need. Best available is fine if you have no immediate needs to fill. Thats not us! :nono:

ItAintEasyBeingPeazy
12-29-2008, 02:19 PM
Fixing the O-line is going to be a money problem too with the big deals that Troy and Big Ben got.If this team is serious about protecting their face of the franchise then sacrifices are gonna have to be made..letting players like Nate Washington,Larry Foote and maybe Willie Parker go might happen to get some cushion under the cap.I hate to see players go but something needs to be done with that line..and not another band-aid fix like Mahan.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Fixing the O-line is going to be a money problem too with the big deals that Troy and Big Ben got.If this team is serious about protecting their face of the franchise then sacrifices are gonna have to be made..letting players like Nate Washington,Larry Foote and maybe Willie Parker go might happen to get some cushion under the cap.I hate to see players go but something needs to be done with that line..and not another band-aid fix like Mahan.
i think those players you mentioned might take a pay cut to stay with the Steelers. Foote can try another team, but with timmons, and fox behind him I dont see that hurting us tjhat much. Same for the other two. We have good depth, and I don think we will suffer if we dont have those three guys.

DIESELMAN
12-29-2008, 03:34 PM
It seems like we have this conversation every year. There should be no excuse as to why we don't draft a franchise OT and a road grader for a OG. Tomlins 1st year he focused on D (Woodley and Timmons), 2nd year was offensive weapons (even though we didn't use them, Mendenhall and Sweed). The 2009 draft should by all rational thinking be the year we focus on the O line. :pray:

BlackGold4vr
12-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Fixing the O-line is going to be a money problem too with the big deals that Troy and Big Ben got.If this team is serious about protecting their face of the franchise then sacrifices are gonna have to be made..letting players like Nate Washington,Larry Foote and maybe Willie Parker go might happen to get some cushion under the cap.I hate to see players go but something needs to be done with that line..and not another band-aid fix like Mahan.


Canning Starks, Simmons, and Smith would clear about 18 mil of cap space. That sounds like plenty of money to sign the rookie class and then some. :yesnod:

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 03:56 PM
The line is fine. Did you see any LINE problems when Leftwich was in there (all 3 times)
All we have to do is get Ben to THROW THE DAMN BALL (as Whisenhunt used to yell at him). The pats,saints,Giants and Titans dont have GREAT offensive lines they just have qbs who GET RID OF THE BALL QUICK so the line is not a problem. THIS year the Titans are regarded as having a good offensive line. How about LAST year when Vince was the qb? They had lots of sacks and werent regarded as a good line. What changed? The blocking schemes? The personnel? NO! The QB. Colling gets the ball out and the line is now regarded as good. Same thing happend on the Giants. Rememebr a few years ago when Kurt Warner was the qb? SACK CITY. They blamed the sacks on the O-line. Enter Eli, he got the proper knowledge now he gets the ball out quickly and now their line is regarded as a good line.

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 04:08 PM
The line is fine. Did you see any LINE problems when Leftwich was in there (all 3 times)
All we have to do is get Ben to THROW THE DAMN BALL (as Whisenhunt used to yell at him). The pats,saints,Giants and Titans dont have GREAT offensive lines they just have qbs who GET RID OF THE BALL QUICK so the line is not a problem. THIS year the Titans are regarded as having a good offensive line. How about LAST year when Vince was the qb? They had lots of sacks and werent regarded as a good line. What changed? The blocking schemes? The personnel? NO! The QB. Colling gets the ball out and the line is now regarded as good. Same thing happend on the Giants. Rememebr a few years ago when Kurt Warner was the qb? SACK CITY. They blamed the sacks on the O-line. Enter Eli, he got the proper knowledge now he gets the ball out quickly and now their line is regarded as a good line.

Yes, i did see line problems, but at the same time, you cannot judge the line when a backup steps in there and takes a few snaps. The defense is readjusting as well, so you need more than that to say we have no line problems. and if you really believe we have no line problems, you must be snorting too many lines........

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:16 PM
You act like EVERY qb in the NFL gets 6 seconds to pass. Sorry bro its NOT going to happen. If it did most qbs would be lights out and very accurate. The pats are regarded as having a good line but didnt Brady tear an acl due to being hit? Defenses are too good if a qb gets 3 seconds hes lucky thats why you have to get the ball out quickly. Its easy to blame the line But Ben often leaves the pocket prematurely and the defender sees this but the offensive lineman does not. You try blocking under those circumstances its not easy.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 04:17 PM
The line is fine. Did you see any LINE problems when Leftwich was in there (all 3 times)
All we have to do is get Ben to THROW THE DAMN BALL (as Whisenhunt used to yell at him). The pats,saints,Giants and Titans dont have GREAT offensive lines they just have qbs who GET RID OF THE BALL QUICK so the line is not a problem. THIS year the Titans are regarded as having a good offensive line. How about LAST year when Vince was the qb? They had lots of sacks and werent regarded as a good line. What changed? The blocking schemes? The personnel? NO! The QB. Colling gets the ball out and the line is now regarded as good. Same thing happend on the Giants. Rememebr a few years ago when Kurt Warner was the qb? SACK CITY. They blamed the sacks on the O-line. Enter Eli, he got the proper knowledge now he gets the ball out quickly and now their line is regarded as a good line.
dont know about all that. I think the Titans and Giants have the best OL. I know the titans do. How many times has Collins been sacked this year? not all that much. And look at the pocket Eli stands in. Dude can go through his progression twice. give Ben half that time and you would be looking at the Greatest Show on Grass....

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 04:20 PM
You act like EVERY qb in the NFL gets 6 seconds to pass. Sorry bro its NOT going to happen. If it did most qbs would be lights out and very accurate. The pats are regarded as having a good line but didnt Brady tear an acl due to being hit? Defenses are too good if a qb gets 3 seconds hes lucky thats why you have to get the ball out quickly. Its easy to blame the line But Ben often leaves the pocket prematurely and the defender sees this but the offensive lineman does not. You try blocking under those circumstances its not easy.

I'll take 3 seconds all day every day. When you get pressure on the snap, you have problems....:yesnod:
As I've said many times on several threads, there are many to blame and Ben is indeed one of them. But, he's ours and I'll take him. :yellowthumb: :cope:
Off with Arians' head!!! :lol:

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:28 PM
dont know about all that. I think the Titans and Giants have the best OL. I know the titans do. How many times has Collins been sacked this year? not all that much. And look at the pocket Eli stands in. Dude can go through his progression twice. give Ben half that time and you would be looking at the Greatest Show on Grass....

How about the titans ONE YEAR AGO? How was that line with Vince? Vince has more mobility than Collins but took way more sacks BEHIND THE SAME LINE. How about when Kurt Warner was on the Giants? How did Elie get his shot? Cause Warner was taking too many sacks,fumbles etc.
Is it a coincidence that every qb that gets rid of the ball quickly has a offensive line thats regarded as good? Show me where the Titans line was regarded as good from last season. Only difference in the Titans from last year till today is the Qb, thats it.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets multiply that by 4
500 Atts 20 sacks

2008
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks

Is it the line or the qb?? Of course its the line. I know I know

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 04:31 PM
I think this is the third or fourth thread you have brought your "I hate Ben" rant into. We get it, you don't like Ben. :yellowthumb:

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:38 PM
I think your sniffing glue. I like Ben but I LOVE the Steelers. Its ok to bash Arians galore. Its ok to bash Willie Parker galore but GOD FORBID anyone to tell the truth about Ben. If I have told ONE lie on Ben please bring it to my attention. I dont hate Ben. I'm just shedding some TRUTH to the woes of our offense. The woes are due to a slow to process the information qb, not the line, not the playcalling and not the talent. Its ironic that everything disappears when Ben is not in there. That is a fact you CANNOT refute. Have we won with Ben? Absolutely. But he is also the cause of some losses (see the last 5 losses if you dont believe me)

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 04:40 PM
:popcorn:

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Bens also the reason we have 5 or 6 fourth quarter come backs this year.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:46 PM
Bens also the reason we have 5 or 6 fourth quarter come backs this year.

Ben is the reason we were behind too. Name those 5 or 6 comebacks sir and I will prove my point. Lastly, OUR DEFENSE is the reason we had a chance to win those games. But we arent talking about Ben we are talking about the line. Dont IGNORE the numbers I posted. How do you explain ALL THOSE SACKS? Somebody give me the latest excuse.

JensK
12-29-2008, 04:47 PM
You act like EVERY qb in the NFL gets 6 seconds to pass. Sorry bro its NOT going to happen. If it did most qbs would be lights out and very accurate. The pats are regarded as having a good line but didnt Brady tear an acl due to being hit? Defenses are too good if a qb gets 3 seconds hes lucky thats why you have to get the ball out quickly. Its easy to blame the line But Ben often leaves the pocket prematurely and the defender sees this but the offensive lineman does not. You try blocking under those circumstances its not easy.

One thing is that you do not like Big Ben.. That is fine and all, but defending the line is just bringing it out into something retarded atempt to bash on ben. The line sucks, period. There is no denying it whatsoever.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:51 PM
How about the titans ONE YEAR AGO? How was that line with Vince? Vince has more mobility than Collins but took way more sacks BEHIND THE SAME LINE. How about when Kurt Warner was on the Giants? How did Elie get his shot? Cause Warner was taking too many sacks,fumbles etc.
Is it a coincidence that every qb that gets rid of the ball quickly has a offensive line thats regarded as good? Show me where the Titans line was regarded as good from last season. Only difference in the Titans from last year till today is the Qb, thats it.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets multiply that by 4
500 Atts 20 sacks

2008
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks

Is it the line or the qb?? Of course its the line. I know I know

Explain how its the line. Here is one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL franchises in the history of the NFL. They have the TOP front office in the league as our success proves. You mean to tell me that our GREAT front office is going to leave the offensive line un addressed for FIVE YEARS??? It seems the Front office believe as I believe. Its not all on the line. How do you explain these numbers?

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 02:51 PM ---


One thing is that you do not like Big Ben.. That is fine and all, but defending the line is just bringing it out into something retarded atempt to bash on ben. The line sucks, period. There is no denying it whatsoever.

If I have told ONE lie on Ben then please bring it to my attention. I like Ben but I LOVE the Steelers.

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 04:55 PM
Don't need to explain them. Compiling numbers and then saying they explain everything is chicken shiat. If I felt like wasting my time, I could compile a set of numbers that would prove my arguement. Point is this, Ben has his faults and in the near future, they may be his undoing. But for now, he is one of the top 3 if not top 2 QB's in the league and I, and many many others including our front office, like him right where he is at. :yesnod: :nahnah:

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-29-2008, 04:56 PM
I know how to fix the offensive line woes. Trade Byron Leftwitch for at least two. Good heads up by Tomlin and the front office for having the sense to sign him.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 04:57 PM
Explain how its the line. Here is one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL franchises in the history of the NFL. They have the TOP front office in the league as our success proves. You mean to tell me that our GREAT front office is going to leave the offensive line un addressed for FIVE YEARS??? It seems the Front office believe as I believe. Its not all on the line. How do you explain these numbers?

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 02:51 PM ---



If I have told ONE lie on Ben then please bring it to my attention. I like Ben but I LOVE the Steelers.
We had a different line Bens first two years, better center, and better all around chemistry. Look at the sacks from his first two season, and the last three. That tells the story in a nut shell. I doubt Ben forgot how to get rid of the ball. Its not like all his sacks come from him rolling out and trying to make a play. Look at the philly game. or the giants game. He was dead in the water in seconds. Thats because the OL sucks. Has nothing to do with holding the ball longer. Explain our running Game....they suck too. this is the worst we have ever done in running the ball. Thats due to our crappy OL. Or do you want to blame Ben for that too?

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 04:58 PM
Don't need to explain them. Compiling numbers and then saying they explain everything is chicken shiat. If I felt like wasting my time, I could compile a set of numbers that would prove my arguement. Point is this, Ben has his faults and in the near future, they may be his undoing. But for now, he is one of the top 3 if not top 2 QB's in the league and I, and many many others including our front office, like him right where he is at. :yesnod: :nahnah:

So what you mean to say is you CANT explain them. Why dont you just say that? Uh Ben is not in the top 2 or 3 qbs. If he was then how come hes not in the Pro Bowl? If you think Ben is in the top 2 or 3 qbs in the league then you have proven my point. Thx sir

ejsteeler
12-29-2008, 05:01 PM
We had a different line Bens first two years, better center, and better all around chemistry. Look at the sacks from his first two season, and the last three. That tells the story in a nut shell. I doubt Ben forgot how to get rid of the ball. Its not like all his sacks come from him rolling out and trying to make a play. Look at the philly game. or the giants game. He was dead in the water in seconds. Thats because the OL sucks. Has nothing to do with holding the ball longer. Explain our running Game....they suck too. this is the worst we have ever done in running the ball. Thats due to our crappy OL. Or do you want to blame Ben for that too?

Yeah, go put these numbers together since you like doing that so much. compare the running game. Dig deeper and find out when the sacks happened. If theyt were coverage sacks, oline collapse or Ben holding it too long. Then come back with your nonsense.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:01 PM ---


So what you mean to say is you CANT explain them. Why dont you just say that? Uh Ben is not in the top 2 or 3 qbs. If he was then how come hes not in the Pro Bowl? If you think Ben is in the top 2 or 3 qbs in the league then you have proven my point. Thx sir

dude, if you put your hopes on a probowl, that is picked way too early by the way, to decide who is good, you have no footbal sense and can only repeat what you hear the grown ups saying around the dinner table. :bunny:

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:04 PM
We had a different line Bens first two years, better center, and better all around chemistry. Look at the sacks from his first two season, and the last three. That tells the story in a nut shell. I doubt Ben forgot how to get rid of the ball. Its not like all his sacks come from him rolling out and trying to make a play. Look at the philly game. or the giants game. He was dead in the water in seconds. Thats because the OL sucks. Has nothing to do with holding the ball longer. Explain our running Game....they suck too. this is the worst we have ever done in running the ball. Thats due to our crappy OL. Or do you want to blame Ben for that too?

That tells me that Cowher and Whisenhunt didnt TRUST him and didnt let him pass that much. You didnt notice the difference in attempts? In 06 Cowher HAD to let Ben pass alot due to all the turnovers he had we needed to get back in games. Whisenhunt didnt get along with Ben. Why? Because Ben was slow to process the information and it pissed Whiz off.
In regards to the Eagles game. The Eagles send 7 blitzers we have 5 blockers plus 1 te and rb in pass protection. Its up to the qb to read the blitz and call a hot route to counter it. Or audible to a screen or quick pass. Did you see the Eagles blitz having the same effect of Leftwich after he came in? He was standing in the pocket and BURNING that blitz. How do you think we almost scored that td? Same line, Same blitzes but different qb and different results. You guys say I hate Ben. I dont hate him. Just because I tell the truth about him does not equal hate.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:08 PM
Pro Bowls...What a joke!!! Ben is close to League MVP by what Phil simms thinks, and I thought the guy hated Ben. For a former SB MVP QB to say that about Ben, speaks volumes about the type of player he is.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:12 PM
Yeah, go put these numbers together since you like doing that so much. compare the running game. Dig deeper and find out when the sacks happened. If theyt were coverage sacks, oline collapse or Ben holding it too long. Then come back with your nonsense.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:01 PM ---

The running game? Are you kidding me? 04 05 we had Duce Staley/Bettis having productive seasons. And Willie had 1,200
06 07 Willie had 1,400 and 1,300
08 Willie had almost 800 (injured) and Mewelde had almost 600 for a GRAND TOTAL of almost 1,400. NEXT EXCUSE?

dude, if you put your hopes on a probowl, that is picked way too early by the way, to decide who is good, you have no footbal sense and can only repeat what you hear the grown ups saying around the dinner table. :bunny:

Ok fair enough. Look at Bens numbers NOW and you tell me WHO he should replace in the Pro Bowl since he is top 2 or 3 according to you.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:12 PM ---


Pro Bowls...What a joke!!! Ben is close to League MVP by what Phil simms thinks, and I thought the guy hated Ben. For a former SB MVP QB to say that about Ben, speaks volumes about the type of player he is.

So your relying on Phill Simms? Your kidding right. I GUARANTE Ben wont get ONE vote for MVP this season. Ed Bouchette wont even vote for him. Guaranteed. You actually think Ben should be MVP??? WOW

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:14 PM
That tells me that Cowher and Whisenhunt didnt TRUST him and didnt let him pass that much. You didnt notice the difference in attempts? In 06 Cowher HAD to let Ben pass alot due to all the turnovers he had we needed to get back in games. Whisenhunt didnt get along with Ben. Why? Because Ben was slow to process the information and it pissed Whiz off.
In regards to the Eagles game. The Eagles send 7 blitzers we have 5 blockers plus 1 te and rb in pass protection. Its up to the qb to read the blitz and call a hot route to counter it. Or audible to a screen or quick pass. Did you see the Eagles blitz having the same effect of Leftwich after he came in? He was standing in the pocket and BURNING that blitz. How do you think we almost scored that td? Same line, Same blitzes but different qb and different results. You guys say I hate Ben. I dont hate him. Just because I tell the truth about him does not equal hate.
Yeah whatever. That has nothing to do with the running game. and almost scoring a TD is worthless. This is football not horse shoes....forcing a QB to pass more due to turnovers is not a situation you want to put any QB in. It makes you one dimensional, and easy to pick apart.

JensK
12-29-2008, 05:18 PM
That tells me that Cowher and Whisenhunt didnt TRUST him and didnt let him pass that much. You didnt notice the difference in attempts? In 06 Cowher HAD to let Ben pass alot due to all the turnovers he had we needed to get back in games. Whisenhunt didnt get along with Ben. Why? Because Ben was slow to process the information and it pissed Whiz off.
In regards to the Eagles game. The Eagles send 7 blitzers we have 5 blockers plus 1 te and rb in pass protection. Its up to the qb to read the blitz and call a hot route to counter it. Or audible to a screen or quick pass. Did you see the Eagles blitz having the same effect of Leftwich after he came in? He was standing in the pocket and BURNING that blitz. How do you think we almost scored that td? Same line, Same blitzes but different qb and different results. You guys say I hate Ben. I dont hate him. Just because I tell the truth about him does not equal hate.

It was nothing about trust jeez.. Get you history straight please. Cowher ran the ball. He ran it untill he couldnt run it anymore, and then he ran again. But we can just set this straight once and for all:

SB Rings: Big Ben 1 - Leftwich 0

Wins after the first 5 seasons: Big Ben 50 (league record) - Leftwich 34 (which probably is way high seeing he did not start all his games at all).

Avg: QB rating: Leftwich 80.3 - Big Ben 89.4

end of discussion about Big Ben vs. Leftwich.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:18 PM
Ok fair enough. Look at Bens numbers NOW and you tell me WHO he should replace in the Pro Bowl since he is top 2 or 3 according to you.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:12 PM ---



So your relying on Phill Simms? Your kidding right. I GUARANTE Ben wont get ONE vote for MVP this season. Ed Bouchette wont even vote for him. Guaranteed. You actually think Ben should be MVP??? WOW
First off, I would put Ben in the probowl before Cutler or Farve. And I dont know if I would vote for him over Manning for league MVP, but I think he should be considered.

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-29-2008, 05:19 PM
Lord please forgive him. The freak is obviously on at least a 5 day binge and should be forgiven.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Yeah whatever. That has nothing to do with the running game. and almost scoring a TD is worthless. This is football not horse shoes....forcing a QB to pass more due to turnovers is not a situation you want to put any QB in. It makes you one dimensional, and easy to pick apart.

Your just arguing to be arguing you are bring zero merit to the table. Ben had 23 ints in 06 and we were 8-8 and you dont think we were behind and had to pass alot? Do you remember that season? How about the Raider game? Ben had 25 turnovers that season (23 ints and 2 fumbles lost) in the motorcycle year (his worst) He had 15 ints and 7 lost fumbles this season. He had 23 turnovers (2 less than his WORST season) and you saying hes top 2 or 3?? WOW

JensK
12-29-2008, 05:20 PM
First off, I would put Ben in the probowl before Cutler or Farve. And I dont know if I would vote for him over Manning for league MVP, but I think he should be considered.

Hell yeah. I mean, look how the almighty Favre have lead the Jets to the playoffs with a 12-4 score and a division swipe..

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:21 PM
So what you mean to say is you CANT explain them. Why dont you just say that? Uh Ben is not in the top 2 or 3 qbs. If he was then how come hes not in the Pro Bowl? If you think Ben is in the top 2 or 3 qbs in the league then you have proven my point. Thx sir

I do believe Ben has the talent to be a top 3 QB, but not with this offense. Not with our OC, or our line, or receivers.

1.) Our O-line like yesterday, I blame for the pick, Ben had no room to throw, and step into it, he threw off his back foot, because our line was beaten. And when he got injured, to plays in a row he was buried, by a defense that has less sacks together, than Harrison does. They give Willie no time to be a patient back, like Bettis has taught him.

2.) Goes hand in hand with one. Our recievers are to small, they get bumped off the line, every play. So the play takes longer to develop, and our line can only hold so long. When Ben gets in his 2 minute drill, he hits receivers with quick strikes, and no huddle, we have to do that more with our line, if the receivers can get off the ball.

3.) Knowing everything that we do about 1.) and 2.) arians should have been calling plays that fit our offense and our talent. Maybe he has some good plays drawn up, but not with our below average line, and average receivers. Especially in goal line situations, he has ZERO receivers in on 3rd and goal, okay let see, will it be a pass?? Hell no! Everything is televised for the opponen.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:23 PM
First off, I would put Ben in the probowl before Cutler or Farve. And I dont know if I would vote for him over Manning for league MVP, but I think he should be considered.

Considered? Based on what? 23 turnovers? your kidding right? All those qbs have a better qb rating than Ben. Ben is not MVP come on dude

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:25 PM
First off, I would put Ben in the probowl before Cutler or Farve. And I dont know if I would vote for him over Manning for league MVP, but I think he should be considered.

I think Cutler had a better year than Ben, but 22 picks for Favre suck! Ben for MVP, no way, we do not have an offensive player worthy of consideration!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:26 PM
I do believe Ben has the talent to be a top 3 QB, but not with this offense. Not with our OC, or our line, or receivers.

1.) Our O-line like yesterday, I blame for the pick, Ben had no room to throw, and step into it, he threw off his back foot, because our line was beaten. And when he got injured, to plays in a row he was buried, by a defense that has less sacks together, than Harrison does. They give Willie no time to be a patient back, like Bettis has taught him.

2.) Goes hand in hand with one. Our recievers are to small, they get bumped off the line, every play. So the play takes longer to develop, and our line can only hold so long. When Ben gets in his 2 minute drill, he hits receivers with quick strikes, and no huddle, we have to do that more with our line, if the receivers can get off the ball.

3.) Knowing everything that we do about 1.) and 2.) arians should have been calling plays that fit our offense and our talent. Maybe he has some good plays drawn up, but not with our below average line, and average receivers. Especially in goal line situations, he has ZERO receivers in on 3rd and goal, okay let see, will it be a pass?? Hell no! Everything is televised for the opponen.


All of the above is called an excuse. The reason I say that is because how come these problems dont exist when Byron is in? That very fact right there renders your whold arguement meritless.
The pick Ben threw was a late errant pass. He threw it late and BEHIND Heath. It was NOT the offensive lines fault- that sir is humourous

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-29-2008, 05:29 PM
All of the above is called an excuse. The reason I say that is because how come these problems dont exist when Byron is in? That very fact right there renders your whold arguement meritless.
The pick Ben threw was a late errant pass. He threw it late and BEHIND Heath. It was NOT the offensive lines fault- that sir is humourous

You seem like you have sense sir. Why are you not showing it?

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:29 PM
All of the above is called an excuse. The reason I say that is because how come these problems dont exist when Byron is in? That very fact right there renders your whold arguement meritless.
The pick Ben threw was a late errant pass. He threw it late and BEHIND Heath. It was NOT the offensive lines fault- that sir is humourous

Watch the replay. he couldn`t step into it! There is no way Leftwich is better! Not even close!

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:30 PM
Considered? Based on what? 23 turnovers? your kidding right? All those qbs have a better qb rating than Ben. Ben is not MVP come on dude

Based on getting his team a bye week. Hanging in there under heavy pressure, playing hurt most of the year. The only numbers that matter in the NFL are wins. How did Farve and Cutler do this year on leading their teams? I would love to see Eli and Jacobs behind this OL. It would be laughable.....Better QB rating...lol good for them...That should get them...lets see...nothing. not even respect. winning is all that matters.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:33 PM
Based on getting his team a bye week. Hanging in there under heavy pressure, playing hurt most of the year. The only numbers that matter in the NFL are wins. How did Farve and Cutler do this year on leading their teams? I would love to see Eli and Jacobs behind this OL. It would be laughable.....Better QB rating...lol good for them...That should get them...lets see...nothing. not even respect. winning is all that matters.

I agree, Ben is a winner, he gets the job done, although sometimes ugly. I really think our offense is ready to break out of thier slump. If they do, we are in great shape

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:34 PM
Watch the replay. he couldn`t step into it! There is no way Leftwich is better! Not even close!
I agree, and so do the coaches. this team is not about one guy. If Lefty was better, he would start...

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:37 PM
Based on getting his team a bye week. Hanging in there under heavy pressure, playing hurt most of the year. The only numbers that matter in the NFL are wins. How did Farve and Cutler do this year on leading their teams? I would love to see Eli and Jacobs behind this OL. It would be laughable.....Better QB rating...lol good for them...That should get them...lets see...nothing. not even respect. winning is all that matters.

Uh our DEFENSE is the reason for our record NOT Ben. Your kidding right? Ben has not played like a Pro Bowler and if you believe that your a homer

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:37 PM ---


I agree, Ben is a winner, he gets the job done, although sometimes ugly. I really think our offense is ready to break out of thier slump. If they do, we are in great shape

We didnt break ouf of our slump ALL SEASON but we will in playoffs? Ok

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:40 PM
I agree, and so do the coaches. this team is not about one guy. If Lefty was better, he would start...

Right!

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:38 PM ---


Uh our DEFENSE is the reason for our record NOT Ben. Your kidding right? Ben has not played like a Pro Bowler and if you believe that your a homer

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:37 PM ---



We didnt break ouf of our slump ALL SEASON but we will in playoffs? Ok

Our defense is the main reason! No doubt! But baltimore won a SB without a QB awhile ago! I know he is better than that

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:40 PM ---


Uh our DEFENSE is the reason for our record NOT Ben. Your kidding right? Ben has not played like a Pro Bowler and if you believe that your a homer

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:37 PM ---



We didnt break ouf of our slump ALL SEASON but we will in playoffs? Ok

I know, but I`m hopeful! We`ve had glimpses of greatness, especially when the game is on the line. Arians has to go back and watch what worked and when and why. And call those plays!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:40 PM
I agree, and so do the coaches. this team is not about one guy. If Lefty was better, he would start...

I never said Lefty was better. I said he processes the information better. He manages the game better and thats all this team needs. You guys sure have a problem with Leftwich lol. He has played well when called upon IF your a Steeler fan how could that **** you off? When you say Ben should be in the probowl and that that pick was the lines fault that is MANIFEST proof that you are a homer and are biased to the 8th power.
What did the annalyst say after that pass? Did you watch the game? Ben threw the ball late but its the lines fault? THAT IS FUNNY

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:42 PM
I never said Lefty was better. I said he processes the information better. He manages the game better and thats all this team needs. You guys sure have a problem with Leftwich lol. He has played well when called upon IF your a Steeler fan how could that **** you off? When you say Ben should be in the probowl and that that pick was the lines fault that is MANIFEST proof that you are a homer and are biased to the 8th power.
What did the annalyst say after that pass? Did you watch the game? Ben threw the ball late but its the lines fault? THAT IS FUNNY

Mike Tomszak played well from time to time to, but when called upon to start, he sucked. Leftwich has to long a stroke, and he throws side arm. He has played well, but I haven`t seen anything great!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Right!

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:38 PM ---



Our defense is the main reason! No doubt! But baltimore won a SB without a QB awhile ago! I know he is better than that

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:40 PM ---



I know, but I`m hopeful! We`ve had glimpses of greatness, especially when the game is on the line. Arians has to go back and watch what worked and when and why. And call those plays!

Baltimore won a SB because they had a qb that DIDNT TURN THE BALL OVER AND HURT THE TEAM (Dilfer) that is Byron NOT Ben. Again, Look at our last 5 losses and tell me how the qb played. Look at our game vs the Cowboys and how did their qb play? (Cost them the game) How did Romo play yesterday? Cost them the game. Thats what happens when a qb turns the ball over. More times than not you lose. Check out our last 5 losses and tell me how the qb played

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Uh our DEFENSE is the reason for our record NOT Ben. Your kidding right? Ben has not played like a Pro Bowler and if you believe that your a homer

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:37 PM ---



We didnt break ouf of our slump ALL SEASON but we will in playoffs? Ok

this is a team sport, and our Def is part of the reason, not the only reason we are in the playoffs. Ben is a huge part of that. It wasn't the Def leading us down the field in those last few games to win it out. It was Bionic Ben, and the juggrenaut known the the Steeler Offense. Dude, I have seen your kind before. Your what we call a Browns fan in disguise. You hop forums trying to stir up trouble because your team sucks and you need to cling to greatness. Just come out and be honest. your only lying to yourself. If after 5 years of Ben you dont think he's one of the top 3 in the league, then... I dont know what to tell you.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:44 PM
I never said Lefty was better. I said he processes the information better. He manages the game better and thats all this team needs. You guys sure have a problem with Leftwich lol. He has played well when called upon IF your a Steeler fan how could that **** you off? When you say Ben should be in the probowl and that that pick was the lines fault that is MANIFEST proof that you are a homer and are biased to the 8th power.
What did the annalyst say after that pass? Did you watch the game? Ben threw the ball late but its the lines fault? THAT IS FUNNY

I was hoping they would go back and make my points, I was surprised. But if you know football so well, go back and watch the play again! The annoucers are just there to keep people interested in a meaningless game, that why we were stuck with them! Tasker! Sucks!

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-29-2008, 05:44 PM
I never said Lefty was better. I said he processes the information better. He manages the game better and thats all this team needs. You guys sure have a problem with Leftwich lol. He has played well when called upon IF your a Steeler fan how could that **** you off? When you say Ben should be in the probowl and that that pick was the lines fault that is MANIFEST proof that you are a homer and are biased to the 8th power.
What did the annalyst say after that pass? Did you watch the game? Ben threw the ball late but its the lines fault? THAT IS FUNNY

Batch has a 3-0 record as a starter. You take Leftwitch ,and we'll keep batch. Leftwitch is just to keep the bench warm for Batch. You still don't get it do ya?

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:44 PM
Mike Tomszak played well from time to time to, but when called upon to start, he sucked. Leftwich has to long a stroke, and he throws side arm. He has played well, but I haven`t seen anything great!

Hes outplayed the starter thats for sure. Funny how you guys UPGRADE Bens performance this season and downplay Byrons. Too funny.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:45 PM
Baltimore won a SB because they had a qb that DIDNT TURN THE BALL OVER AND HURT THE TEAM (Dilfer) that is Byron NOT Ben. Again, Look at our last 5 losses and tell me how the qb played. Look at our game vs the Cowboys and how did their qb play? (Cost them the game) How did Romo play yesterday? Cost them the game. Thats what happens when a qb turns the ball over. More times than not you lose. Check out our last 5 losses and tell me how the qb played

5 losses?? We had 4 all season! Whats the chances that we would have gone 16-0. SO Ben has been banged up, he`ll be fine.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Batch has a 3-0 record as a starter. You take Leftwitch ,and we'll keep batch. Leftwitch is just to keep the bench warm for Batch. You still don't get it do ya?

Batch lost vs the Ravens last season (last game) By the way in that game he passed 31 times and was NEVER sacked. How come the line blocks when Ben is out? Im confused. Byron will be a starter somewhere next season sir. Why the hate for Byron? I dont get it.
Batch is 3-2 as a starter sir.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:47 PM
Hes outplayed the starter thats for sure. Funny how you guys UPGRADE Bens performance this season and downplay Byrons. Too funny.

Man if you only payed attention! Ben has not had a great season, not disagreeing! Bryon hasn`t played bad, but not as well as you make it sound! Two partial games, one against the browns. We were up 7-0 yesterday, Ben had one bad play. He was driving when he was injured, completing a pass.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:48 PM
5 losses?? We had 4 all season! Whats the chances that we would have gone 16-0. SO Ben has been banged up, he`ll be fine.

Uh we lost in the playoffs last season sir (hence LAST 5 LOSSES) Jacksonville (Ben 5 turnovers) Giants (Ben 4 turnovers), Eagles (Ben 5 turnovers), Colts (Ben 3 turnovers) and Titans (Ben 4 turnovers). We lost EVERYONE of those games due to turnovers. I know I know it was the lines fault and Arians etc. I know I know

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:51 PM
yesterday Byron played so much better????? Our you for real?

B. Roethlisberger 9/14 110 0 1
B. Leftwich 7/12 80 0 0


Wow MVP Leftwich

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:51 PM ---


Uh we lost in the playoffs last season sir (hence LAST 5 LOSSES) Jacksonville (Ben 5 turnovers) Giants (Ben 4 turnovers), Eagles (Ben 5 turnovers), Colts (Ben 3 turnovers) and Titans (Ben 4 turnovers). We lost EVERYONE of those games due to turnovers. I know I know it was the lines fault and Arians etc. I know I know

Once again, I`ll try and slow this down for you! LIKE I SAID! It is a combo of Ben not playing as well as expected some of which is his injuries, our poor O-line, and our average receivers. Oh yeah and our playing calling is horrific.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 05:51 PM
I never said Lefty was better. I said he processes the information better. He manages the game better and thats all this team needs. You guys sure have a problem with Leftwich lol. He has played well when called upon IF your a Steeler fan how could that **** you off? When you say Ben should be in the probowl and that that pick was the lines fault that is MANIFEST proof that you are a homer and are biased to the 8th power.
What did the annalyst say after that pass? Did you watch the game? Ben threw the ball late but its the lines fault? THAT IS FUNNYUm, no. Anyone here will tell you I have been calling for Lefty all year because Ben has been hurt. He comes in a plays for a half, and teams dont practice for him, thats the only reason he has played OK. If any team knew he was the starter, he would be dog meat. Maybe....He needs a job, and like I have said all year, if Lefty plays, we get the best he has ever played.....

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:52 PM
Man if you only payed attention! Ben has not had a great season, not disagreeing! Bryon hasn`t played bad, but not as well as you make it sound! Two partial games, one against the browns. We were up 7-0 yesterday, Ben had one bad play. He was driving when he was injured, completing a pass.

Byron produced 17 points sir. Here is a man that doesnt get the reps, he is rusty, he doesnt play with the 1st team but yet he leads the offense to points on 3 out of his 1st 4 drives. In the Eagles game Ben got sacked 8 times our offense was horrible. Enter Leftwich and he drives is ALL THE WAY DOWN the field. Stares that blitz in the face and hits Nate time and time again. Had Nate have held that td pass the game would have been 15-13 and who knows what would have happened. Ben struggles in the Skins game and enter Byron and the offense looked like a different offense. There is electiricity in our O when Byron is in there. If you cant see it then you are biased.

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:55 PM
Byron produced 17 points sir. Here is a man that doesnt get the reps, he is rusty, he doesnt play with the 1st team but yet he leads the offense to points on 3 out of his 1st 4 drives. In the Eagles game Ben got sacked 8 times our offense was horrible. Enter Leftwich and he drives is ALL THE WAY DOWN the field. Stares that blitz in the face and hits Nate time and time again. Had Nate have held that td pass the game would have been 15-13 and who knows what would have happened. Ben struggles in the Skins game and enter Byron and the offense looked like a different offense. There is electiricity in our O when Byron is in there. If you cant see it then you are biased.

You give the first 7 to Byron, Ben is the one that drove them down there. And BL threw for 80 yards, how much could he have done?? Man your easy!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:55 PM
yesterday Byron played so much better????? Our you for real?

B. Roethlisberger 9/14 110 0 1
B. Leftwich 7/12 80 0 0


Wow MVP Leftwich

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 03:51 PM ---



Once again, I`ll try and slow this down for you! LIKE I SAID! It is a combo of Ben not playing as well as expected some of which is his injuries, our poor O-line, and our average receivers. Oh yeah and our playing calling is horrific.


He produced SEVENTEEN points sir. Ben produced 7. How come you didnt list Byrons TD run? Notice the NO TURNOVERS?
Was Ben hurt in the Jags game in the playoffs last season? Ben is hurt, the line, the playcalling.
How come all of this goes away when Byron is in? If this was a FACT wouldnt it still exist when you change qbs?

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Byron produced 17 points sir. Here is a man that doesnt get the reps, he is rusty, he doesnt play with the 1st team but yet he leads the offense to points on 3 out of his 1st 4 drives. In the Eagles game Ben got sacked 8 times our offense was horrible. Enter Leftwich and he drives is ALL THE WAY DOWN the field. Stares that blitz in the face and hits Nate time and time again. Had Nate have held that td pass the game would have been 15-13 and who knows what would have happened. Ben struggles in the Skins game and enter Byron and the offense looked like a different offense. There is electiricity in our O when Byron is in there. If you cant see it then you are biased.

Blah Blah Blah, your high! LOL I have to leave!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Um, no. Anyone here will tell you I have been calling for Lefty all year because Ben has been hurt. He comes in a plays for a half, and teams dont practice for him, thats the only reason he has played OK. If any team knew he was the starter, he would be dog meat. Maybe....He needs a job, and like I have said all year, if Lefty plays, we get the best he has ever played.....

So what your telling me is that the Dcordinators dont have a PLAN B? You dont think Lebeau prepares for the backup as well? YOUR KIDDING RIGHT? NEXT EXCUSE

AZ_Steeler
12-29-2008, 05:57 PM
I could have ****ing swore that this thread was about how to make the ****ing offensive line better!!!! Keep it on topic... there are already two other threads about Ben vs. Byron!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Blah Blah Blah, your high! LOL I have to leave!

I think that would be best sir

Stairwayto7
12-29-2008, 05:59 PM
He produced SEVENTEEN points sir. Ben produced 7. How come you didnt list Byrons TD run? Notice the NO TURNOVERS?
Was Ben hurt in the Jags game in the playoffs last season? Ben is hurt, the line, the playcalling.
How come all of this goes away when Byron is in? If this was a FACT wouldnt it still exist when you change qbs?

Thats passing omly stats, Ben gets some credit for the TD, come on they were driving when he got hurt! Ben had one turnover, so what! You are starting to lose respect here! Sorry!

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:00 PM
I could have ****ing swore that this thread was about how to make the ****ing offensive line better!!!! Keep it on topic... there are already two other threads about Ben vs. Byron!

The qb/offensive line and coordinators go hand in hand. One cant have success without the other.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 06:01 PM
Thats passing omly stats, Ben gets some credit for the TD, come on they were driving when he got hurt! Ben had one turnover, so what! You are starting to lose respect here! Sorry!
I already called him out. He's a Browns fan, and has nothing better to do. Steeler fans would never feel that way about Ben, even if it were true....

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:02 PM
Thats passing omly stats, Ben gets some credit for the TD, come on they were driving when he got hurt! Ben had one turnover, so what! You are starting to lose respect here! Sorry!

So you get points for driving? How many points do you get? We were also driving when Ben threw his pick. We were also driving vs the Titans when someone fumbled on the 1 yard line. How many points did we get as a result of "driving"??

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:02 PM ---


I already called him out. He's a Browns fan, and has nothing better to do. Steeler fans would never feel that way about Ben, even if it were true....

To be a Browns fan I sure know ALOT about the Steelers. Next excuse

AZ_Steeler
12-29-2008, 06:03 PM
This thread looks a lot like the other two (BYRON LEFYWICH (http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17795) and Wasn't all Big Bens fault (http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17691))... it's all about Ben and Byron and nothing of the offensive line... Yes they go hand in hand but this thread is about the offensive line and not BEN vs BYRON

:deadhorse:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 06:06 PM
Scalaid6 the thread is about fixing the O-line......So stay on topic please......But if you really think this offensive line is a quality line then stop watching football please......The Steelers current OL is average at best.......Big reason the Steelers havn't been throwing deep much lately is due to the O-line....Both Arians and Ben prefer a more deep passing game.....But since the O-line can't sustain their block long enough that is why the Steelers have gone to more of a dink and dunk passing game which hasn't been a strength of Ben's.....So he has had to change his game somewhat.....Now the Wr's have had trouble separating at times also so its not the entire fault of the O-line.....Ben also does hang onto the ball to much at times.....But most of it is on the O-line.....

Its funny you keep knocking Ben but defend the O-line.......

Willie Colon probably leads the NFL in false starts and holding penalties.......Ben has had two TDs to Nate called back due to Colon holds....One against the Giants and one against the Browns Sunday.......Willie Colon is probably one of the worst OT's in football.....In my opinion he doesn't run block or pass block well......Then at RG there was Kendall Simmons until he went down with injury who has been average at best since suffering a torn ACL a few years ago and with his personal battle with diabetes.......I don't think Darnell Stapleton has been that much better of an upgrade....But he is still young so I'm not ready to give up on the kid........But he was undrafted for a reason......I don't see the next Alan Faneca with Stapleton....lol

As for Hartwig at center he has done a solid job and really been an upgrade over Sean Mahan......I really have no complaints about Hartwig.....But he is nowhere in the class of Dermonnti Dawson or Jeff Hartings........Those guys were rock solid centers that anchored the Steelers OL for years......I didn't see Mike Webster or Ray Mansfield but those were the two that anchored the center position before those two.....I would like to see the Steelers to find another center close to those guys......Alex Mack could be that center and I wouldn't mind at all if the Steelers drafted him in the first round this year.......

As for Chris Kemoeatu.....The man has the size to dominate at LG but I question his ability mentally....He also has **** poor footwork and really is pushed around to much at times for a man his size due to his footwork...........Same goes for Max Starks about footwork that has always been a question mark on him....I will say he does look alot better at LT then RT.......Remember he was beat out at RT by Willie Colon....lol I still don't think Starks is the long term answer at LT........He is far from a franchise LT this team still needs.... As for Marvel Smith due to his injury problems I hope he isn't back....How can he really be counted on......

As for the offense looking better with Leftwich under center I do agree you some what......But really there isn't enough evidence to really know if the offense would have been better with Byron Leftwich starting the majority of the season.......Sorry I don't think it would have been due to Leftwich's past performance's in the NFL.....He isn't a terrible QB but he was replaced as the Jags starter for a reason so remember that please......But I do understand its frustrating seeing the offense look better the few times he was in there.....But like I said the few snaps he played it really doesn't give us that much proof......

The bottom line the offensive line still needs to be rebuilt......A true LT would be great but if not then any OT, OG, or center would help.....In the first round players like Duke Robinson or Alex Mack have to be considered especially if the Steelers can't land one of the top OT's.........But an OT like Ciron Black could be there in the 2nd.....The offensive line has to be the focus heading into the draft.....

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:10 PM
This thread looks a lot like the other two (BYRON LEFYWICH (http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17795) and Wasn't all Big Bens fault (http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17691))... it's all about Ben and Byron and nothing of the offensive line... Yes they go hand in hand but this thread is about the offensive line and not BEN vs BYRON

:deadhorse:

I agree with you but if ANY qb gets rid of the ball quickly that aids the line. This is how all of this started. The good offensive lines in the league have qbs that get the ball out like Brees, Brady, both Mannings and even SORRY Kerry Collins. If Ben does this it would help our line and make them look better, its simple. Byron does it and so does Batch. Last game of the season batch passed 31 times vs the Ratbirds and didnt get sacked one time. So in talking about the line, this is how the qbs get in the mix.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:10 PM ---


Scalaid6 the thread is about fixing the O-line......So stay on topic please......But if you really think this offensive line is a quality line then stop watching football please......The Steelers current OL is average at best.......Big reason the Steelers havn't been throwing deep much lately is due to the O-line....Both Arians and Ben prefer a more deep passing game.....But since the O-line can't sustain their block long enough that is why the Steelers have gone to more of a dink and dunk passing game which hasn't been a strength of Ben's.....So he has had to change his game somewhat.....Now the Wr's have had trouble separating at times also so its not the entire fault of the O-line.....Ben also does hang onto the ball to much at times.....But most of it is on the O-line.....

Its funny you keep knocking Ben but defend the O-line.......

Willie Colon probably leads the NFL in false starts and holding penalties.......Ben has had two TDs to Nate called back due to Colon holds....One against the Giants and one against the Browns Sunday.......Willie Colon is probably one of the worst OT's in football.....In my opinion he doesn't run block or pass block well......Then at RG there was Kendall Simmons until he went down with injury who has been average at best since suffering a torn ACL a few years ago and with his personal battle diabetes.......I don't think Darnell Stapleton has been that much better of an upgrade....But he is still young so I'm not ready to give up on the kid........But he was undrafted for a reason......I don't see the next Alan Faneca with Stapleton....lol

As for Hartwig at center he has done a solid job and really been an upgrade over Sean Mahan......I really have no complaints about Hartwig.....But he is nowhere in the class of Dermonnti Dawson or Jeff Hartings........Those guys were rock solid centers that anchored the Steelers OL for years......I didn't see Mike Webster or Ray Mansfield but those were the two that anchored the center position before those two.....I would like to see the Steelers to find another center close to those guys......Alex Mack could be that center and I wouldn't mind at all if the Steelers drafted him in the first round this year.......

As for Chris Kemoeatu.....The man has the size to dominate at LG but I question his ability mentally....He also has **** poor footwork and really is pushed around to much at times for a man his size due to his footwork...........Same goes for Max Starks about footwork that has always been a question mark on him....I will say he does look alot better at LT then RT.......Remember he was beat out at RT by Willie Colon....lol I still don't think Starks is the long term answer at LT........He is far from a franchise LT this need still nees.... As for Marvel Smith due to his injury problems I hope he isn't back....How can he really be counted on......

As for the offense looking better with Leftwich under center I do agree you some what......But really there isn't enough evidence to really know if the offense would have been better with Byron Leftwich starting the majority of the season.......Sorry I don't think it would have been due to Leftwich's past performance's in the NFL.....He isn't a terrible QB but he was replaced as the Jags starter for a reason so remember that please......But I do understand its frustrating seeing the offense look better the few times he was in there.....But like I said the few snaps he played it really doesn't give us that much proof......

The bottom line the offensive line still needs to be rebuilt......A true LT would be great but if not then any OT, OG, or center would help.....In the first round players like Duke Robinson or Alex Mack have to be considered especially if the Steelers can't land one of the top OT's.........But an OT like Ciron Black could be there in the 2nd.....The offensive line has to be the focus heading into the draft.....

Scalaid6 wasnt the only one off topic so be consistent. Just because I'm blowing your bad line theory to shreds dont get made refute it. Our line is not the best but its funny that when we change qb the sack totals change as well.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:11 PM
I think sometimes we judge Kemo based on our past experience of the last 10 years with Faneca. He was a pro bowler and the best OL we had during his era so Kemo is not going to live up to those expectations at all. All in all though I think he's done a good job, he's a helluva run blocker and with this years experience he's getting better with his feet. I wouldn't mind having him back at LG but he's a FA I believe so we'll have to see what he's going to want.

Simmons just needs to go, he's not been the same for the last 3 years and the dude is just an underachiever when he's in there. Stapleton has been doing a real good job and he's versatile to play Center too. so help if this team doesn't get atleast 2 OL in this draft and premium picks at that I'm going to blow a gasket!

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 06:15 PM
I agree with you but if ANY qb gets rid of the ball quickly that aids the line. This is how all of this started. The good offensive lines in the league have qbs that get the ball out like Brees, Brady, both Mannings and even SORRY Kerry Collins. If Ben does this it would help our line and make them look better, its simple. Byron does it and so does Batch. Last game of the season batch passed 31 times vs the Ratbirds and didnt get sacked one time. So in talking about the line, this is how the qbs get in the mix.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:10 PM ---



Scalaid6 wasnt the only one off topic so be consistent. Just because I'm blowing your bad line theory to shreds dont get made refute it. Our line is not the best but its funny that when we change qb the sack totals change as well.

I did refute it dick wipe.......Reason I went off topic is answer your constant pointless trash you post.....:lol:

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:16 PM
Again, we have one of the best front offices in the NFL. I NEVER worry about who we draft or who we let go or keep. While people were complaining that we let Porter go I had faith in our front office becuase they KNOW what they are doing. To say that this GREAT fornt office disregarded our line is saying you have more knowledge than them. Trust me our FO KNOW what they are doing. If they think we have a line problem then I have trust and faith that they will fix it. But is kind of hard to sell that the line is bad when you have 1400 yards rushing consistently. Ben needs to work on quick reads and that will help the line. Its a team game and the blocking and passing game goes hand in hand. For those of you that think the line needs work, I think the Qb needs work. How come we both cant be right? Is that too wrong?

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:16 PM ---


I did refute it dick wipe.......Reason I went off topic is answer your constant pointless trash you post.....:lol:

Temper temper. Anger is a sign of losing ones wits. Get it together sir

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 06:18 PM
I think sometimes we judge Kemo based on our past experience of the last 10 years with Faneca. He was a pro bowler and the best OL we had during his era so Kemo is not going to live up to those expectations at all. All in all though I think he's done a good job, he's a helluva run blocker and with this years experience he's getting better with his feet. I wouldn't mind having him back at LG but he's a FA I believe so we'll have to see what he's going to want.

Simmons just needs to go, he's not been the same for the last 3 years and the dude is just an underachiever when he's in there. Stapleton has been doing a real good job and he's versatile to play Center too. so help if this team doesn't get atleast 2 OL in this draft and premium picks at that I'm going to blow a gasket!

Dude I don't know how you thought Kemoeatu was any good this year....He has one good game that follows up with three poor games....He is very inconsistent and really doesn't dominate like a man his size should....He has **** poor footwork and really isn't that smart of a player.....Him pulling one time to free Parker for a TD run against the Browns isn't enough to convince me....I had high hopes for him coming out of Utah....I really thought he was a steal.....He really should a further along in his progression as a player.....

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:19 PM
Im not going to go back and edit the last 3 pages of this thing right now but keep this thread on topic and civil or we'll have to close it down which I'd hate to do because there is a lot of good discussion in here amongst all the BS.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:21 PM
Dude I don't know how you thought Kemoeatu was any good this year....He has one good game that follows up with three poor games....He is very inconsistent and really doesn't dominate like a man his size should....He has **** poor footwork and really isn't that smart of a player.....Him pulling one time to free Parker for a TD run against the Browns isn't enough to convince me....I had high hopes for him coming out of Utah....I really thought he was a steal.....He really should a further along in his progression as a player.....


ok maybe "good" is a bit of stretch, he was inconsistent but he did have some solid games..enough to make me think with this year under his belt and some solid coaching during the offseason he can come back and be pretty decent. Honestly I don't know if the FO is willing to retool the entire line this year so bringing him back for atleast the immediate future might be a wise idea unless they plan on being active in FA with offensive lineman.

steel-tex
12-29-2008, 06:26 PM
So what you mean to say is you CANT explain them. Why dont you just say that? Uh Ben is not in the top 2 or 3 qbs. If he was then how come hes not in the Pro Bowl? If you think Ben is in the top 2 or 3 qbs in the league then you have proven my point. Thx sir

the pro bowl is a freaken joke - who has had a better year ben or brett - bretts there. i won't even watch it - means nothin proves nothin. there are guys going there that shouldn't be - and guys stayin that should be goin. big joke. if we had an offensive cord. that could call a good play once in a while we might not be ranked 24th in the NFL on offense. and yes our o line sucks so bad we can't get 1 yard when we need to. like i said before the o line makes the difference, any decent back can run through a big hole that a good line makes. our running game sucks because our o line can't run block. also our qb gets sacked all the time because they cant pass block either. ben would take half the sacks he does if the line would block someone - then u could bitch about him holdin on to the ball too long and taken 20 sacks a year instead of 40.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:29 PM
Somebody else to keep an eye on is Jason Capizzi, he's going to challenge for a starting job next year at Tackle. With Marvel gone and our situation being what it is I'd really like to see this kid step and take a starting Tackle job on this team. Especially with Starks being a UFA he's got the opportunity to make a name for himself.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:37 PM
I think Kemo is good. But lets not forget he is green and learning on the job. And I'm tired of people saying that I hate Ben. I dont hate Ben. Our team is special and should be undefeated. Our line is not the cause of these losses, its Bens turnovers. Does that mean I hate him becuase I point out the truth? Thats insane. Hate is what is posted in regards to Leftwich (thats hate). Our offensive line is not the best and its not the worst. The cowboys have what is considered a GOOD Offensive line and what did the Eagles do to them yesterday? Id say our line did better than Dallas' when we played them. Had Romo got the ball out those turnovers would not have happened. Holding the ball HURTS your line it doesnt help it. That is not hate it is the truth.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:40 PM
Are you watching through black n gold glasses? Our offensive line was horrific against both the eagles and the cowboys. The eagles had like 6 sacks in the first half and 9 I believe it was in the whole game and not because of Ben holding onto the ball.

Dallas had what like 5 sacks and we couldn't run the ball effectively either; again not because of Ben. They just are not picking up the blitzers and way too many guys are coming free off the edge or up the middle. Dallas did have a good line this year overall as did the Giants, compared to both of those units our front 5 guys aren't even in that same league...LOL

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 06:42 PM
Again, we have one of the best front offices in the NFL. I NEVER worry about who we draft or who we let go or keep. While people were complaining that we let Porter go I had faith in our front office becuase they KNOW what they are doing. To say that this GREAT fornt office disregarded our line is saying you have more knowledge than them. Trust me our FO KNOW what they are doing. If they think we have a line problem then I have trust and faith that they will fix it. But is kind of hard to sell that the line is bad when you have 1400 yards rushing consistently. Ben needs to work on quick reads and that will help the line. Its a team game and the blocking and passing game goes hand in hand. For those of you that think the line needs work, I think the Qb needs work. How come we both cant be right? Is that too wrong?

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:16 PM ---



Temper temper. Anger is a sign of losing ones wits. Get it together sir

Going off topic again....Joey Porter has nothing to do with this thread......

As for the FO............They're human right?.....So they can mistakes right?.......Max Starks, Chris Kemoeatu, Justin Hartwig, Darnell Stapleton, Willie Colon doesn't really represent the next great Steelers offensive line.......So much elite talent along that currnet starting five and on the roster in general.....lol Hey genius remember Jamain Stephens,Kris Farris,Mathais Nkwenti, Chukky Okobi, Bo Lacy, Drew Caylor,Cameron Stephenson?........Those were all offensive lineman drafted by our so called great front office....lol We have a solid front office but like I said they're human and make mistakes....Drafting stiffs like that is a big reason why our current OL is in shambles.....


The front office has to start think about adding elite talent to the offensive line......Faneca was the last elite OL drafted by this team....Marvel Smith has been solid and really a success as a 2nd round pick....But we must do better then Max Starks, Chris Kemoeatu, and Willie Colon......Those five offensive lineman that I just mentioned along with Kendall Simmons reprsent the Steelers lineman that were drafted that have been starting material since 1998 and only one in Faneca was elite......

That is why the Steelers must draft at least two offense lineman on the first day of the draft this year add some potential elite talent to the offensive line......

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:43 PM
the pro bowl is a freaken joke - who has had a better year ben or brett - bretts there. i won't even watch it - means nothin proves nothin. there are guys going there that shouldn't be - and guys stayin that should be goin. big joke. if we had an offensive cord. that could call a good play once in a while we might not be ranked 24th in the NFL on offense. and yes our o line sucks so bad we can't get 1 yard when we need to. like i said before the o line makes the difference, any decent back can run through a big hole that a good line makes. our running game sucks because our o line can't run block. also our qb gets sacked all the time because they cant pass block either. ben would take half the sacks he does if the line would block someone - then u could bitch about him holdin on to the ball too long and taken 20 sacks a year instead of 40.

So our line has ben bad for Bens WHOLE career? Because he has taken sacks at a high level his whole career. So the great Steler organization is going with a bad line for Five years? In the meantime we have won a Super Bowl and been in two AFC Championships with a BAD LINE. If it aint broke dont fix it.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 06:43 PM
Dude, this is the worst OL in Steeler history. Like I said before, if it was Ben, we should still be able to run the ball. These guys cant even make small holes for the HB. They suck..BA sucks, and its because of Ben that we are even close to being able to stay in the games when our great Def gets us the ball back. Sure Ben has cost us some games, but jesus man, he's see ghost back there.

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Are you watching through black n gold glasses? Our offensive line was horrific against both the eagles and the cowboys. The eagles had like 6 sacks in the first half and 9 I believe it was in the whole game and not because of Ben holding onto the ball.

Dallas had what like 5 sacks and we couldn't run the ball effectively either; again not because of Ben. They just are not picking up the blitzers and way too many guys are coming free off the edge or up the middle. Dallas did have a good line this year overall as did the Giants, compared to both of those units our front 5 guys aren't even in that same league...LOL

I said we did better than Dallas' line. Never said we looked good. The turnovers lost the game not the line and not the sacks. The score was 15-6 if you recall. Nate catches that td pass in endzone from Byron and its 15-13. GAME ON

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 06:48 PM
Somebody else to keep an eye on is Jason Capizzi, he's going to challenge for a starting job next year at Tackle. With Marvel gone and our situation being what it is I'd really like to see this kid step and take a starting Tackle job on this team. Especially with Starks being a UFA he's got the opportunity to make a name for himself.

Dude if we're resting our hopes on Jason Capizzi and Tony Hills as our future OT's then we will be in worse shape then we are in now....The time has come for this team to add elite talent to this offensive line.....I would prefer a LT but I would settle for a RT, OG or center.....

I'm tired of hoping that undrafted FA's or second day picks will turn into studs.....The proof is there that the Steelers brass has not been finding any talent worth damn along the offensive line with undrafted FA's or second day pick......

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 06:48 PM
I said we did better than Dallas' line. Never said we looked good. The turnovers lost the game not the line and not the sacks. The score was 15-6 if you recall. Nate catches that td pass in endzone from Byron and its 15-13. GAME ON
your big on stats so look up how many times teams score once they get sacked....those sacks hurt us, just like anyone else...

Scalaid6
12-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Going off topic again....Joey Porter has nothing to do with this thread......

As for the FO............They're human right?.....So they can mistakes right?.......Max Starks, Chris Kemoeatu, Justin Hartwig, Darnell Stapleton, Willie Colon doesn't really represent the next great Steelers offensive line.......So much elite talent along that currnet starting five and on the roster in general.....lol Hey genius remember Jamain Stephens,Kris Farris,Mathais Nkwenti, Chukky Okobi, Bo Lacy, Drew Caylor,Cameron Stephenson?........Those were all offensive lineman drafted by our so called great front office....lol We have a solid front office but like I said they're human and make mistakes....Drafting stiffs like that is a big reason why our current OL is in shambles.....


The front office has to start think about adding elite talent to the offensive line......Faneca was the last elite OL drafted by this team....Marvel Smith has been solid and really a success as a 2nd round pick....But we must do better then Max Starks, Chris Kemoeatu, and Willie Colon......Those five offensive lineman that I just mentioned along with Kendall Simmons reprsent the Steelers lineman that were drafted that have been starting material since 1998 and only one in Faneca was elite......

That is why the Steelers must draft at least two offense lineman on the first day of the draft this year add some potential elite talent to the offensive line......

Joey Porter was mentioned in relation to the decisions made by the front office, the same front office your post is regarding. The front office drafts the players. Offensive lineman are players hence I am not off topic. I think the front office is qualified to make personnel decisions and I'm confident in that. They have a good track record and I do not thats why you dont see me telling them what they should do. If you think your qualified to make personnel decisions then feel free to submit an application. If you can help the team I'm all for it.

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 04:55 PM ---


your big on stats so look up how many times teams score once they get sacked....those sacks hurt us, just like anyone else...

I dont understand the question. Please clarify

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Dude if we're resting our hopes on Jason Capizzi and Tony Hills as our future OT's then we will be in worse shape then we are in now....The time has come for this team to add elite talent to this offensive line.....I would prefer a LT but I would settle for a RT, OG or center.....

I'm tired of hoping that undrafted FA's or second day picks will turn into studs.....The proof is there that the Steelers brass has not been finding any talent worth damn along the offensive line with undrafted FA's or second day pick......

Trust me man I'll be first in line waving my terrible towel if Tomlin and the scouts can actually put together an offseason where we completely retool the line and get guys in here that can be in it for the long haul and be successful. I just don't know if they will based on the last 5-7 years of drafting but trust I'd love nothing more than to see it happen.

Putting our hopes in either of those guys is not the best way to go about putting together a successful offense but at the same time they may very well be part of the equation and atleast right now we can hope their potential lives up to their reality. I've been saying it for years, you neglect the offensive line year in and year out and what you end up with is what we have right now :evilshake:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 07:00 PM
Joey Porter was mentioned in relation to the decisions made by the front office, the same front office your post is regarding. The front office drafts the players. Offensive lineman are players hence I am not off topic. I think the front office is qualified to make personnel decisions and I'm confident in that. They have a good track record and I do not thats why you dont see me telling them what they should do. If you think your qualified to make personnel decisions then feel free to submit an application. If you can help the team I'm all for it.

As for the list of bum offensive lineman that I mentioned you have no response for....lol Just proves you don't have a clue.....

This offensive line of the Steelers is a joke and really you're the only that can't see it....We need some serious help along that offensive line.......If that means trading up to land a top OT in the first then I'm all for it......

The Steelers have question marks at both OT and OG....Hartwig is a solid center but still we could do better......

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 05:00 PM ---


Trust me man I'll be first in line waving my terrible towel if Tomlin and the scouts can actually put together an offseason where we completely retool the line and get guys in here that can be in it for the long haul and be successful. I just don't know if they will based on the last 5-7 years of drafting but trust I'd love nothing more than to see it happen.

Putting our hopes in either of those guys is not the best way to go about putting together a successful offense but at the same time they may very well be part of the equation and atleast right now we can hope their potential lives up to their reality. I've been saying it for years, you neglect the offensive line year in and year out and what you end up with is what we have right now :evilshake:

I know man you're all for the drafting of some badass offensive lineman that can actually block......I just laughed when I read about Cappizi......I hope he is a very good OT but I'm not counting on it....lol

I understand why Tomlin and Colbert passed on the OL in the first and second round last year......But they must take a more aggressive approach this time especially since they will have an extra third round pick due to Faneca.......I hope they trade up to get an OT or stay put and hope Duke Robinson is there or take Alex Mack.....Robinson is the top OG in this draft and Mack the top center.....

Steelersfan
12-29-2008, 07:00 PM
How about the titans ONE YEAR AGO? How was that line with Vince? Vince has more mobility than Collins but took way more sacks BEHIND THE SAME LINE. How about when Kurt Warner was on the Giants? How did Elie get his shot? Cause Warner was taking too many sacks,fumbles etc.
Is it a coincidence that every qb that gets rid of the ball quickly has a offensive line thats regarded as good? Show me where the Titans line was regarded as good from last season. Only difference in the Titans from last year till today is the Qb, thats it.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets multiply that by 4
500 Atts 20 sacks

2008
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks

Is it the line or the qb?? Of course its the line. I know I know

Last time I checked the Steelers don't and have not used a quick passing game like the Pats or Colts have. So you would have to look at the play calling now wouldn't you? Of course not. It's all Ben. I know I know.


I think your sniffing glue. I like Ben but I LOVE the Steelers. Its ok to bash Arians galore. Its ok to bash Willie Parker galore but GOD FORBID anyone to tell the truth about Ben. If I have told ONE lie on Ben please bring it to my attention. I dont hate Ben. I'm just shedding some TRUTH to the woes of our offense. The woes are due to a slow to process the information qb, not the line, not the playcalling and not the talent. Its ironic that everything disappears when Ben is not in there. That is a fact you CANNOT refute. Have we won with Ben? Absolutely. But he is also the cause of some losses (see the last 5 losses if you dont believe me)


Yes, it is the line. Say what you want. Lefty was on his back more than a couple times Sunday and took shots in the other games he played in. This OL gets no push in the run game. Allows to many defenders to come free and take shots at whomever the QB is. Not to mention teams don't have to blitz to get pressure which allows them to keep more back in pass coverage which makes it harder for the WR's to get open. A lot of us have said the answer to this is to spread the field and start using the quick passing game. Have they? Nope. Guess that goes to play calling.

ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING BEN DOESN"T SHARE SOME OF THE BLAME BUT IT ISN"T ALL HIS FAULT EITHER.

And by the way, can you show me another QB that a team hasn't won some with while also losing some because of the same QB? What kind of statement is that? The Steelers are 12-4. I'll take that every year thanks.

How about placing the blame where it belongs, the play calling not being utilized to the players strength's.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 07:04 PM
Last time I checked the Steelers don't and have not used a quick passing game like the Pats or Colts have. So you would have to look at the play calling now wouldn't you? Of course not. It's all Ben. I know I know.




Yes, it is the line. Say what you want. Lefty was on his back more than a couple times Sunday and took shots in the other games he played in. This OL gets no push in the run game. Allows to many defenders to come free and take shots at whomever the QB is. Not to mention teams don't have to blitz to get pressure which allows them to keep more back in pass coverage which makes it harder for the WR's to get open. A lot of us have said the answer to this is to spread the field and start using the quick passing game. Have they? Nope. Guess that goes to play calling.

ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING BEN DOESN"T SHARE SOME OF THE BLAME BUT IT ISN"T ALL HIS FAULT EITHER.

And by the way, can you show me another QB that a team hasn't won some with while also losing some because of the same QB? What kind of statement is that? The Steelers are 12-4. I'll take that every year thanks.

How about placing the blame where it belongs, the play calling not being utilized to the players strength's.

Good post sir.......I agree about the offensive line......I can't recall seeing a Steelers offensive line getting dominated and getting no push even in the run game like these current clowns.......

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 07:05 PM
As for the list of bum offensive lineman that I mentioned you have no response for....lol Just proves you don't have a clue.....

This offensive line of the Steelers is a joke and really you're the only that can't see it....We need some serious help along that offensive line.......If that means trading up to land a top OT in the first then I'm all for it......

The Steelers have question marks at both OT and OG....Hartwig is a solid center but still we could do better......

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 05:00 PM ---



I know man you're all for the drafting of some badass offensive lineman that can actually block......I just laughed when I read about Cappizi......I hope he is a very good OT but I'm not counting on it....lol

I understand why Tomlin and Colbert passed on the OL in the first and second round last year......But they must take a more aggressive approach this time especially since they will have an extra third round pick due to Faneca.......I hope they trade up to get an OT or stay put and hope Duke Robinson is there or take Alex Mack.....Robinson is the top OG in this draft and Mack the top center.....


I'll tell ya what else is a concern, that fact that our day 2 drafting has been horrific to say the least over the last 10 years. If we don't land offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds in the 2009 draft there's no guarantee any of them in the 4th round or later will even make the team.

We gotta think Tomlin knows something has to be done about those front 5, he can't possibly be that blind to it. He'll say the right things during the year but when push comes to shove he's got to man up and get the big hogs fixed if we're going to do anything. I would love to see get some gems in the later rounds to work into the offensive line as project depth guys that can be ready to go in the couple years as well as fixing what we have now.

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 07:06 PM
Thats because this is the worst OL in Steeler history.....

Black@Gold Forever32
12-29-2008, 07:12 PM
I'll tell ya what else is a concern, that fact that our day 2 drafting has been horrific to say the least over the last 10 years. If we don't land offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds in the 2009 draft there's no guarantee any of them in the 4th round or later will even make the team.

We gotta think Tomlin knows something has to be done about those front 5, he can't possibly be that blind to it. He'll say the right things during the year but when push comes to shove he's got to man up and get the big hogs fixed if we're going to do anything. I would love to see get some gems in the later rounds to work into the offensive line as project depth guys that can be ready to go in the couple years as well as fixing what we have now.

I'm all for finding late round gems to....But we can't pin our hopes on that finding them anymore....So drafting offensive lineman in the early rounds is a must and then if Tomlin wants to add a couple more picks to the OL in rounds 5-7 then great....But it seems since 2003 with the Steelers spending no picks on the offensive line in the first two rounds and hoping to find gems in rounds 3 and on hasn't worked......Since we havn't found any gems....lol

I'm not ready to give up on Chris Kemoeatu but if he isn't resigned then it won't break my heart.....Willie Colon is terrible at RT and really should be switched to OG to see if he has any kind of future....

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm all for finding late round gems to....But we can't pin our hopes on that finding them anymore....So drafting offensive lineman in the early rounds is a must and then if Tomlin wants to add a couple more picks to the OL in rounds 5-7 then great....But it seems since 2003 with the Steelers spending no picks on the offensive line in the first two rounds and hoping to find gems in rounds 3 and on hasn't worked......Since we havn't found any gems....lol

I'm not ready to give up on Chris Kemoeatu but if he isn't resigned then it won't break my heart.....Willie Colon is terrible at RT and really should be switched to OG to see if he has any kind of future....
Yeah, the only problem is that we are going to be picking at 32 this year, and I dont see there being a lot of good OL man at 32. We could get lucky and trade down for something, but this team needs to look ar free agents. All we need is a better OL, and we will run off 3 SB in a row....Everything else is championship level. We will still win it all this year, but its going to be hard to do. Hence our 32 pick...lol

--- Added 12/29/2008 at 05:23 PM ---


We are 12-4 on the strength of our Defense. Yes the line let Byron get hit and so what? Dude this is FOOTBALL. The quick pass is not a scheme. If I'm the qb and I see blitz I am hot routing one of my receivers to a quick pass or two of them. You dont see all of the talking Brady, Manning and Brees do at the line? (even Carson) They are audibling (some dummy calls). Your telling me Peyton Manning wouldnt be good in our offense? I'm telling you we would be undefeated. How come we didnt sack either manning? Are you telling me it was due to the line? No sir, It was because those two can get the ball out quickly and thats the key. Let me rewind back to the Jags game. Ben played this game as he should play all games (except the pick 6 to Rashean) he was hot routing and audibling and getting the ball out. If Ben plays like he did in this game, we are undefeated. For those of you who still have the jags game. Please watch it. Ben at his finest.uh, no way in hell either manning plays well behind this OL. neither one of them can scramble out of danger. Eli has one of the best OL in football dude. Do you not see him standing in that pocket going through his progressions? Even Madden said something about that. He has time to go through them twice over....and Payton...lol the guy would be toast....

Dean Denton
12-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Their lines are good because they get the ball out. Eli plays behind the same line that got Kurt Warner killed. Our line is not the best but its not as bad as you guys let on. When the colts play the chargers this weekend watch the blitz and watch how fast Peyton gets that ball out.OK smart guy...you realize that that line has played together for about 6 years now, and when they started out, they were bad, real bad. Now I dont know what the sack stats were, but my gay friend is a giants fans so I watched all the games with him. Those guys took almost 5 years to figure out what to do. This league these guys are all pros, and it takes time to sometimes get it together. If they can. these guys are all 300 lbs, and should learn to block at some point, but our guys are not. sure some guys are better then others, but over all an OL takes time to get that chemistry of working together, and who knows, maybe in another 3 years these below average players we have will get it together. Warner was busted up because that line at that time was not good yet, but they have become great after 5 or 6 years.....

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 08:17 PM
You can't disguise a poor offenslive line forever and our line is as much the reason for poor performance as Ben, Willie or anyone else is. You can only do so much with poor blocking. Quick release and quick decision making and short drops are all well and good and that's the best way to counteract a sub par blocking group but it doesn't last forever because teams will then just drop guys back and flood the short to intermediate stuff because they know you can't drop back and fire it down field and they know you can't run well so anybody with a decent defensive line can get you which is what we've found out this year and last year and what we'll see in the playoffs.

yinzer
12-29-2008, 10:58 PM
remove scrubs, insert studs...

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 11:31 PM
Im telling you if I see one more post griping about other QB's using our line or anything else that is not directly related to fixing our oline, 100 percent, no question to OUR oline this thread is gone. This WAS a great thread with lots of ideas but it's so f'd up with intermittent bullshit and arguing as to who is making the better points that you can't even follow it anymore. I was going to feature this thread on the homepage but not now!

No excuses, no BS, nothing, keep it on track or it's done!

Steelersfan
12-29-2008, 11:34 PM
So, how do you think the Celtics will do this year?.............:reddevil:


















Just j/k with ya TG!

I say scrap the entire OL and start over......lol

BlitzburghRockCity
12-29-2008, 11:55 PM
I've got some pee wee offensive lineman here in my area that are looking like some pretty good prospects so you know never know :lol:

Im anxious to see what Tomlin and Colbert do this year with the draft, is it going to be status quo and forget the offensive lineman again or is it going to be all hands on deck in free agency and the draft. Scrapping the entire thing and starting over isn't the worst idea in the world I'll tell ya that much..lol.

Scalaid6
12-30-2008, 12:21 AM
You can't disguise a poor offenslive line forever and our line is as much the reason for poor performance as Ben, Willie or anyone else is. You can only do so much with poor blocking. Quick release and quick decision making and short drops are all well and good and that's the best way to counteract a sub par blocking group but it doesn't last forever because teams will then just drop guys back and flood the short to intermediate stuff because they know you can't drop back and fire it down field and they know you can't run well so anybody with a decent defensive line can get you which is what we've found out this year and last year and what we'll see in the playoffs.

I'll say it again. Our line is not as bad as advertised. I have faith in the Steeler brass and no way they go into 5 straight seasons with a bad line. Theres too much evidence substantiating that point. How can this line yield almost 15 hundred yards rushing and be called bad? 176 yards vs the Browns. I dont care if it was the Browns they are in the NFL. Those same Browns beat the Super Bowl champs. Our line is not that bad. Sure it has flaws but so does everyones line. Again, our front office knows what its doing and I back them 100%

BlitzburghRockCity
12-30-2008, 12:33 AM
They've gone the last 4 with a below average line, really even the super bowl line was good but not great. The fact that we had Bettis helped their cause alot and of course Hartings will still there. Bad knees and all that guy was the best Center we've had since Dawson no question.

As a fan you have to hope your front office and scouts have done their homework enough to realize how much help this unit needs. You can't just be happy with tweaking it here or there with a player and hope it's fixed. That strategy hasn't worked the last several years and now it's as bad as ever. They seemed to be getting better at the midway point of the season then it all went into the tank again vs the Ravens and Cowboys and has since really been no better. There is no quick fix, no magic wand, it's going to take good drafting a free agent or 2 to retool this unit. You have a QB that holds onto the ball and makes a lot of plays so you have to compensate and get him better protection.

Scalaid6
12-30-2008, 12:41 AM
Its a convenient excuse (blaming the line) but lets be honest what team goes 12-4, 10-6 and 11-5 with the kind of line you guys are describing. Sorry I dont buy it. I know its the Steeler message board theme song but the facts say otherwise.

BlacknGold Bleeder
12-30-2008, 12:51 AM
Its a convenient excuse (blaming the line) but lets be honest what team goes 12-4, 10-6 and 11-5 with the kind of line you guys are describing. Sorry I dont buy it. I know its the Steeler message board theme song but the facts say otherwise.

the facts say that this line leaves alot to be desired !!

Scalaid6
12-30-2008, 01:12 AM
Again, The facts say we are 12-4. The Texans O-line in the David Carr Days was bad and the record indicated that. How do you go 12-4, 10-6 and 11-5 in the last 3 years with a line as bad as you guys describe? Below is clips from the Titans game. There is always time to throw the ball. In the play where Ben fumbles on the 1. Tell me Heath Miller is not open in the left flat? No need to run, Throw Heath the ball. Notice after the fumble Ben looks to see who recovers the ball, once he sees its the Titans then the shaking of the head like hes hurt routine (callin it like I see it). 2nd fumble (2nd qtr) Yes Ben is rushed and its a bad job by the line here. But the check down is Willie to the left. He throws that pass and its a big gain. Yes its bad protection here but no excuse not to take care of the ball. Next play 1st and 10. Ben gets time and throws a strike to Sirsmokealot. Nice play, good pass and good protection. 3rd quarter. 2nd and 10 Ben has adequate protection STAYS IN THE POCKET (this is key) and finds the one on one coverage and hits Hines for the 1st. Good read by Ben and good recognition of the matchup were looking for. Next play GOOD play action fake by Ben-freezes the Lbs and throws a strike to Hines over the middle for the Td.(notice with the quick pass the pass rush is not an issue; quick read, quick pass defeats the pressure 90% of the time). Next play for us: Its 3rd and 2, the line gives Ben PLENTY of time he steps up and forces a pass into the teeth of the D and the Safety picks it off. Rewind the play and see AGAIN, in the flats MEWELDE is wide open to Bens left, this is the checkdown he needs to hit for a big gain. 2 more fumbles- gotta take care of the ball and live to fight another down. Last play 1st and 10 Ben has time he steps up in the pocket and throws a errant pass to Hines that is a pick 6.
Our Line is not the best but its NOT as bad as advertised. A few better decisions here and there and we win this game.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d89145

BlitzburghRockCity
12-30-2008, 01:16 AM
Look man, this topic is beaten to death and at this point it's just back and forth with the same stuff. The simple fact is this oline is sub par and anybody that can't see is completely blind. The line is not the whole problem but it's certainly a big issue. Play calling is to blame, lack of a running game is to blame, penalties, you name it. The fact that we've been able to be successful with the line in it's current state and the state in the last few years is a tribute to our defense and to Ben and the WR's and TE's making plays when they absolutely have too. It's as simple as that. Why make it so damn hard on yourself with sub par blocking when you can make it easier on yourself by having good guys upfront that know how to pick up the blitz, run block, pull, trap,and everything else and be effective at it on a consistent basis.

BlitzburghNation
12-30-2008, 01:19 AM
No argument from me,,,,,,,:popcorn:

We need a better o-line 'period' We will address it in this years draft,,,,,,,,:yesnod:

NCSteeler
12-30-2008, 02:39 AM
dont know about all that. I think the Titans and Giants have the best OL. I know the titans do. How many times has Collins been sacked this year? not all that much. And look at the pocket Eli stands in. Dude can go through his progression twice. give Ben half that time and you would be looking at the Greatest Show on Grass....

You are right on. The other way to judge a good line.... Running game, Titans and the Giants are the leagues best. Ours???

--- Added 12/30/2008 at 12:39 AM ---


All of the above is called an excuse. The reason I say that is because how come these problems dont exist when Byron is in? That very fact right there renders your whold arguement meritless.
The pick Ben threw was a late errant pass. He threw it late and BEHIND Heath. It was NOT the offensive lines fault- that sir is humourous

Why are we killing Tom Brady and then he gets hurt and all of sudden Bledsoe is the second coming of Montana?? Defenses plan on certain things and the QB playinga certain way and having habits like and dislikes are all part of that. When you change the QB you change all those habits and wala they look great. You know why Lefty isn't starting anymore? (beside his two bum ankles). Once Ds know to prepare for his long wind up he is an easy mark.

JensK
12-30-2008, 07:06 AM
Im surpriced the Steelers havnt called you already. Obviously you are the only solid absolut infinit truth, together with the front office. Really, no QB WHATSOEVER could have done great for a long time with this line. Leftwich has hardly played, so you just cannot judge the line with him. 2 quarters does NOT define a season.

Colon leads the league in false starts and holdings. Starks have somewhat alright the last few games, but he sure as hell is not good. As long as he's got a big slow dude, he can handle it, but the man can't keep ben safe for 1 second if they bring a fast guy, or blitz with the cb.

Kemo is actually okay imho. He is no faneca, but he gets the job done most of the time. He did have starting problems, but he has got his act together and is, imo, the best line man we have right now (which is terrible -.-). He is the only damn person on the line who'll actually block down the field.

Hartwig is getting the job done, but he is by no means good, and he is definetly not our long-tirm answer there.

Stapleton have done what you can expect for a UFA (i believe he is a UFD?). Anyways, he can block a guy, but if they bring on the heat he'll pull a Starks.

There you have it! Kemo is the only guy on the line who is worth keeping. He'll get better with some new fresh blood on the o-line. The rest are just scrubs who will never get succes with the steelers (i said the steelers because they could probably do better with another team, but they are not fit for Steelers football).

Stairwayto7
12-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Bottom line, to get back on track!

Steelers Offesnive line is the weakest link, and needs the most off season attention.

This is to good of a team to build the line through the draft alone. So I would suggest, hitting free agency for atleast one tackle, the draft two linemen early.

Also we need to upgrade our receivers, we need a big receiver, not just tall! A big receiver! We need a reveiver the size of TO, but I wouldn`t want TO.

ejsteeler
12-30-2008, 11:01 AM
Again, we have one of the best front offices in the NFL. I NEVER worry about who we draft or who we let go or keep.


The front office drafts the players. Offensive lineman are players hence I am not off topic. I think the front office is qualified to make personnel decisions and I'm confident in that. They have a good track record and I do not thats why you dont see me telling them what they should do.


I'll say it again. Our line is not as bad as advertised. I have faith in the Steeler brass and no way they go into 5 straight seasons with a bad line. Theres too much evidence substantiating that point......Again, our front office knows what its doing and I back them 100%

Our front office has never been much on spending great deals of money, especially on a lineman. We have prided ourselves on finding hidden talent at a bargain price. I too have faith that they will do it again, and need to very, very badly and you will see the urgency this offseason I promise you. I also have faith that this same front office you tout so much and love to death has Ben in there for a reason. :yesnod: (Sorry TG, I couldn't help it. :dunno:)

Stairwayto7
12-31-2008, 10:27 AM
Our we second guessing, letting Faneca go? Or did he just want way to much $$$$, and to many years for a Guard at his age?