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View Full Version : 3rd and short/Tomlin and Arian's



NYCsteelersfan
12-25-2008, 04:53 AM
Just some statistical meat for anyone who is interested. These are all objective stats taken from play-by play logs. I have done no skewing of any kind. The only part of this post that is subjective are points #1, 6, 7 and 8 at the end of the post, but all other stats are facts.

17 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 4:

15 times in the shotgun formation; 2 sacks, 1 interception, 1 offensive penalty, 1 defensive penalty, 3 failed passes, 7 successful passes, 2 sucessful QB rushes

On 3rd and 4 we have ran 15 pass plays on 17 attempts, we converted successfully on 7 out of 15 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

14 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 3:

9 times in the shotgun formation; 1 sack, 1 offensive penalty, 4 failed passes, 6 successful passes and 2 successful rushes

On 3rd and 3 we have ran 12 pass plays on 14 attempts, we converted successfully on 6 out of 12 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

24 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 2:

11 times in the shotgun formation; 5 sacks, 3 interceptions, 3 failed passes, 2 defensive penalties, 9 successful passes and 2 successful rushes.

On 3rd and 2 we have ran 20 pass plays on 24 attempts, we converted successfully on 9 out of 20 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

27 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 1:

4 times in the shotgun formation; 2 sacks, 1 failed QB sneak, 3 failed passes, 7 failed rushes, 1 successful pass, 11 successful rushes, 2 successful QB sneaks.

On 3rd and 1 we have ran 6 pass plays on 27 attempts, we converted successfully on 1 out of 6 pass attempts and 13 out of 21 rush attempts.


What does this all amount to?

1. Arian's is an idiot
2. Arian's has called for shotgun 39 out of 82 times we have been faced with 3rd down and 4 or less. 15 shotgun formations on 17 3rd and 4's.
3. Arian's has called for 53 pass plays out of 82 times we have been faced with 3rd down and 4 or less.
4. We have converted 23 out of 53 pass plays on 3rd and 4 or less and have converted 19 out of 27 rush attempts on 3rd and 4 or less, the difference in rush success over pass success being clear as day yet Arian's continues to call twice as many pass plays in those 3rd and 4 or less situations.
5. 4 out of 14 of Roethlisberger's INT's have come in these situations.
6. These situations were directly responsible for the Giants and Colts losses.
7. At this point in the season Tomlin is just as guilty as Arian's for not having done anything to correct the "situation"
8. Arian's is an idiot.

yinzer
12-25-2008, 08:52 AM
IMO, arians will have a bigger hand in screwing us in the playoffs than the O line.

MERRY CHRISTMAS, STEELERADDICTS! :tt02: :cope:

BlitzburghRockCity
12-25-2008, 12:27 PM
If you can't run, which we can't, then you're never going to full anybody on 3rd and short. they know we're going to throw it most of the time or if we do line up in that bunch formation he always friggin runs to the strong side where the pile is. That's all well and good if you have a power back that can break a tackle but our RB's are small and just get swallowed up in the pile. 3rd and short used to be automatic for us, we'd just line up and run it and move the chains..now the only thing automatic about it is that we aren't going to convert. It's really a pitiful situation.

If Arians would just get his head out of his *** and be more creative, we might actually do something.

HUNT4SEVEN
12-25-2008, 01:25 PM
We have to get back to Steelers football plain an simple:cursin:This system is bu** ****:cursin:i know it won't happen this year but next year we better go back to an full back:cursin:, but i would like to see the stats of how when it was 3rd an 2,3,4 etc.... how many times we tried to throw for an 20 yard pass:rant2:

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 01:40 PM
I buy into the fact that we have not run the ball well all season. I do not buy into the fact that we can not run the ball. Something is going on as far as the running game is concerned. I agree that far. I just don't know what it is. Who is to say ,that we can not try a different play out of that same.old,tired formation? I been saying all along that what you see now, is not what you might get in the playoffs. Trust "our" team,and trust "our" coaches,they have a chance to bring home another trophy for "our"beloved "Steelers". MERRY CHRISTMAS to all !

LatrobePA
12-25-2008, 03:19 PM
our running game is gone by choice. BA is an air it out kinda guy.

Merry Xmas you all!!

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 05:34 PM
our running game is gone by choice. BA is an air it out kinda guy.

Merry Xmas you all!!

If there is one thing about Arians , that i have learned ,that is what you see in the regular season , is not what you may expect to see in the post season.
Don't even laugh ,we came to a close call before.
People just have trouble distinguishing the difference between regular and post season.
Thank my God as i know him that he is in control and not "US" fans.
Let him do his job! If he doesn't complete his task , then call for his head.
You have to have "faith".
Can't teach faith. you either have it or you don't!

BlitzburghRockCity
12-25-2008, 05:38 PM
Running the ball is matter of not only will and determination which I don't doubt that we have but it also involves execution and play a "hat on a hat" as Cowher used to call it and just taking control of your guy and moving him out of the way. we've only done it a hand full of times this year with good success. Until we stop being so predictable on offense we are going to continue seeing 7 in the box, even 8 at time to stop the run. Let's face it when you line up in a 2 TE set and run it to the strong side everybody on the defense knows what you're going to do as soon as you line up so it's doomed from the start.

All I know is you can't win a superbowl without running atleast just enough to keep the defense honest so they better get their act together.

Troyisabeast_43
12-25-2008, 06:48 PM
Running the ball is matter of not only will and determination which I don't doubt that we have but it also involves execution and play a "hat on a hat" as Cowher used to call it and just taking control of your guy and moving him out of the way. we've only done it a hand full of times this year with good success. Until we stop being so predictable on offense we are going to continue seeing 7 in the box, even 8 at time to stop the run. Let's face it when you line up in a 2 TE set and run it to the strong side everybody on the defense knows what you're going to do as soon as you line up so it's doomed from the start.

All I know is you can't win a superbowl without running atleast just enough to keep the defense honest so they better get their act together.

I agree TG but why not play to your teams strengths instead and use the pass to set up the run instead of vice versa. If the Steelers offense would come out of the gate throwing the ball and go 4-5 wide spread I really believe with the talent they have on offense with the receivers and Ben that they will be able to put instant points on the board. Once you do that and get a 10 point lead or so with this Steelers defense then you can begin to try and run the ball because you will have the defense on their heels more being down by 10 or more in the game which in turn will open up the running game for the Steelers a lot more and allow it to be much more successful then the way it is now.

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 07:04 PM
I feel ya "TG" but i still stand by , why show all of your guns till you need them. Think back one time in our spectacular season ,and tell me one time when we needed every arsonal that we had available?
Were we hiding a weakness? Or were we disguising a strong suit?
Its up to the team to decide , but i do have my own beliefs.
You are a top knotch site operater ,but i have to stand by my guns ,that we have not yet seen the capability of our offense just yet.
I firmly believe that. I am only 47 years old, but i have seen this type of thing before.
I have watched this team so many times , and they gave ground.
Only to come back and gain ground.
People need to realize, that once the post season starts it 0-0.
0-0 ,thats the score. Whole new season. I am sure that coach mike is preaching that,he already said as much.
They are gearing up for the play-offs my friend.
Make no question about it.

Troyisabeast_43
12-25-2008, 07:23 PM
If there is one thing about Arians , that i have learned ,that is what you see in the regular season , is not what you may expect to see in the post season.
Don't even laugh ,we came to a close call before.
People just have trouble distinguishing the difference between regular and post season.
Thank my God as i know him that he is in control and not "US" fans.
Let him do his job! If he doesn't complete his task , then call for his head.
You have to have "faith".
Can't teach faith. you either have it or you don't!

Well you are right about that seeing that he did throw the ball against the Steelers when he was with the Browns in 2002 about 50-60 times for 430 yards in that playoff game that the Browns lost when the Browns were primarily a run first team that year. And last year the in the playoffs down 28-10 Arians started using the 4-5 wide set and it lead the Steelers to score 19 unanswered points and take a 29-28 lead which they eventually lost 31-29. So let's hope they turn it up a notch in the playoffs offensively and start trying new things because if they keep doing what they have been for most of the season come playoff time this offense and this Steelers team in general is going to be in big big trouble.

NYCsteelersfan
12-25-2008, 07:24 PM
I feel ya "TG" but i still stand by , why show all of your guns till you need them. Think back one time in our spectacular season ,and tell me one time when we needed every arsonal that we had available?
Were we hiding a weakness? Or were we disguising a strong suit?
Its up to the team to decide , but i do have my own beliefs.
You are a top knotch site operater ,but i have to stand by my guns ,that we have not yet seen the capability of our offense just yet.
I firmly believe that. I am only 47 years old, but i have seen this type of thing before.
I have watched this team so many times , and they gave ground.
Only to come back and gain ground.
People need to realize, that once the post season starts it 0-0.
0-0 ,thats the score. Whole new season. I am sure that coach mike is preaching that,he already said as much.
They are gearing up for the play-offs my friend.
Make no question about it.

I'll actually back you up on your one point. Although I feel Arian's has already proved worthless to me during the course of this regular season depite anything that happens in the Borwns game, if Arian's is in fact playing "possum" and if he somehow pulls a rabbit out of his hat for 3 straight playoff games, then #$%^ whatever he did in the regular season right? That I agree with. But until that happens I'm gonna gripe a bit more cause this offense looks disasterous.

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 08:06 PM
We have not yet drawed first on a team just yet. I like it that way. Means you think ya don't have to. If we have that kind of attitude, then i am fine with that. I have no doubt that we can shoot from the hip! The record is 0-0 . Browns are just a shooting gallery.
I love Tomlins approach to the game!!!! The more Tomlin stays in Pittsburgh ,the more serious he gets.Dudes ,ya gotta love that attitude!

--- Added 12/25/2008 at 06:06 PM ---


Well you are right about that seeing that he did throw the ball against the Steelers when he was with the Browns in 2002 about 50-60 times for 430 yards in that playoff game that the Browns lost when the Browns were primarily a run first team that year. And last year the in the playoffs down 28-10 Arians started using the 4-5 wide set and it lead the Steelers to score 19 unanswered points and take a 29-28 lead which they eventually lost 31-29. So let's hope they turn it up a notch in the playoffs offensively and start trying new things because if they keep doing what they have been for most of the season come playoff time this offense and this Steelers team in general is going to be in big big trouble.

My point is maybe now he has a chance to run the ball. We can't run the balll ! Forget that in the post season! The team we face does not know what the F...... we are gonna do. We surely can't run the ball. As Steelers fans , i think we are in for a treat!
Make no mistake about it, i actually think we have been drawing pressure to our running game. Defenses have been paying attention too.Wait till they see the real deal!!!!!
All of the statistics go flying out the window ,when the post season begins.
This team has been running the ball too long for teams to not respect it.
Arians has faced our defense before. I think he will be fine.
He takes a lot of heat, and most well deserved.
I would wait for the post season results, before i made my decision, on whether i wanted his head or not.

yinzer
12-25-2008, 08:48 PM
look, guys. you make strong points but let's not start to believe this whole "vanilla" play calling nonsense. they've shown us what they're capable of on offense to the fullest capacity. i guarantee right here, right now... WE WILL SEE THE SAME OL' CRAPPY PLAY CALLING AND PREDICTABILITY THAT WE'VE SEEN THE ENTIRE SEASON. there's nothing else. the same thing goes for the defense as well.

if you want to make a case for what you're all saying, ask yourself WHY arians would WAIT to do something like that. and, don't tell me it's because we're in the playoffs now. arians didn't know we'd be in the playoffs 16 weeks ago yet his play calling has been horrendous the entire season. he wasn't just sitting back knowing we'd be in the position that we're in 16 weeks ago and decided to suck during the regular season just to come out and turn into super O.C. for the playoffs.

if we stick with what works and our skill positions play like they're capable of, we're getting one for the other thumb.

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 09:05 PM
look, guys. you make strong points but let's not start to believe this whole "vanilla" play calling nonsense. they've shown us what they're capable of on offense to the fullest capacity. i guarantee right here, right now... WE WILL SEE THE SAME OL' CRAPPY PLAY CALLING AND PREDICTABILITY THAT WE'VE SEEN THE ENTIRE SEASON. there's nothing else. the same thing goes for the defense as well.

if you want to make a case for what you're all saying, ask yourself WHY arians would WAIT to do something like that. and, don't tell me it's because we're in the playoffs now. arians didn't know we'd be in the playoffs 16 weeks ago yet his play calling has been horrendous the entire season. he wasn't just sitting back knowing we'd be in the position that we're in 16 weeks ago and decided to suck during the regular season just to come out and turn into super O.C. for the playoffs.

if we stick with what works and our skill positions play like they're capable of, we're getting one for the other thumb.

Yo Steeler man, i don't know why Arians would be waitin for such a chance. His name is relatively only known to us fans.
Has not made a name for himself far as i know.
If i was a dude in the nfl ,and i wanted to get my name out to other teams, especially if there were other teams interested in a new coach, i would be bringin my best f.....n game i could.
This is your brain ..............and this is your brain on drugs. Any questions?

Troyisabeast_43
12-25-2008, 09:36 PM
look, guys. you make strong points but let's not start to believe this whole "vanilla" play calling nonsense. they've shown us what they're capable of on offense to the fullest capacity. i guarantee right here, right now... WE WILL SEE THE SAME OL' CRAPPY PLAY CALLING AND PREDICTABILITY THAT WE'VE SEEN THE ENTIRE SEASON. there's nothing else. the same thing goes for the defense as well.

if you want to make a case for what you're all saying, ask yourself WHY arians would WAIT to do something like that. and, don't tell me it's because we're in the playoffs now. arians didn't know we'd be in the playoffs 16 weeks ago yet his play calling has been horrendous the entire season. he wasn't just sitting back knowing we'd be in the position that we're in 16 weeks ago and decided to suck during the regular season just to come out and turn into super O.C. for the playoffs.

if we stick with what works and our skill positions play like they're capable of, we're getting one for the other thumb.

You really believe Yinzer that this defense is overrated and crappy based on one sub-par performance last week in Tennessee?? This defense has carried this team basically all year long and if not for it the Steelers wouldnt be the AFC North champs and have the number 2 seed and bye week in the playoffs. The defense will show up in the playoffs and be on top of it's game, and I guarantee you if the Steelers do lose in the playoffs at some point it wont have anything to do with the defense it will be strictly because of the offense much like it has been for all 4 games the Steelers have lost so far this season.

Gettysburgh_Steel
12-25-2008, 10:13 PM
You really believe Yinzer that this defense is overrated and crappy based on one sub-par performance last week in Tennessee?? This defense has carried this team basically all year long and if not for it the Steelers wouldnt be the AFC North champs and have the number 2 seed and bye week in the playoffs. The defense will show up in the playoffs and be on top of it's game, and I guarantee you if the Steelers do lose in the playoffs at some point it wont have anything to do with the defense it will be strictly because of the offense much like it has been for all 4 games the Steelers have lost so far this season.

No i do not. The defense may have picked a bad day to be off though. I love all of your insight and all ,but this is about arians and the offense no? People been cuttin on our offense more than Jim Rockford cut on Angel!! Don't know if you know who that is anyway.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-25-2008, 11:22 PM
Our defense just flat out had a bad game last weekend, it's happens to the best of them. They've been going 100 mph for 15 weeks straight and sooner or later unit just has a bad day at the offense. Credit the Titans for executing better than we did as much as you credit us for not playing well. I have full faith in our defense for the playoffs no question.


I agree TG but why not play to your teams strengths instead and use the pass to set up the run instead of vice versa. If the Steelers offense would come out of the gate throwing the ball and go 4-5 wide spread I really believe with the talent they have on offense with the receivers and Ben that they will be able to put instant points on the board. Once you do that and get a 10 point lead or so with this Steelers defense then you can begin to try and run the ball because you will have the defense on their heels more being down by 10 or more in the game which in turn will open up the running game for the Steelers a lot more and allow it to be much more successful then the way it is now.

Oh man trust me I would love that, to see us coming spread offense. Run the no huddle, use the dink and dunk, take a couple shots down field. Ive been screaming all year to play to our strengths which this year is Ben making plays in the passing game. Use the short passing game as a substitute running game. Lots of teams do it when they have troubles running the ball or just for the simple fact of not staying so predictable. If Arians would actually do that for the whole game, my God we'd be marching up and down the field all day. he's so damn stubborn to run the ball conventionally that we just go backwards time and time again.

If you can't run it the old fashioned way then sit back there and take 3 step drops and just start dumping it off and march down the field on a 10-15 play drive and eat up clock that way. Mix in some draws and regular runs and by golly you've got yourself an offense.

Silverback
12-26-2008, 02:37 AM
The Steelers in the spread? O god I hate Bruce Arians for what our offense has come to.:evilshake: We need to throw Davis and Russell in the backfield and play some smashmouth.

yinzer
12-26-2008, 08:57 AM
You really believe Yinzer that this defense is overrated and crappy based on one sub-par performance last week in Tennessee?? This defense has carried this team basically all year long and if not for it the Steelers wouldnt be the AFC North champs and have the number 2 seed and bye week in the playoffs. The defense will show up in the playoffs and be on top of it's game, and I guarantee you if the Steelers do lose in the playoffs at some point it wont have anything to do with the defense it will be strictly because of the offense much like it has been for all 4 games the Steelers have lost so far this season.

all i'm saying is that we've seen all we're going to see; from the O and the D. i don't understand the assumption that I think our D is trash. i know i've used the word "overrated" before in a fit of rage but not today. i know the D is good.

my entire point of my first post was that there are no "playoff plays" on either side of the ball. it may have looked like a vanilla steeler team last week but it only LOOKED that way. when you have **** poor execution mixed in with the worst O.C. in the league, you have a product that resembles vanilla play calling.