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BlackGold4vr
12-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Did a little research on pro-bowl tackles going back to the 2003 season. Below is the list of OT's and where they were drafted in their perspective draft. I think you will find the list eye opening. Listed by name, year drafted, round drafted, overall draft #, number of times selected to the pro-bowl.


Jordan Gross | 2003 | 1st round | 8th overall | 1X
Walter Jones | 1997 | 1st round | 6th overall | 9X
Jason Peters | 2004 | UFA | UFA | 2X
Joe Thomas | 2007 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 2X
Flozell Adams | 1998 | 2nd round | 38th overall | 4X
Matt Light | 2001 | 2nd round | 48th overall | 2X
Willie Anderson | 1996 | 1st round |10th overall | 4X
Jonathon Ogden | 1996 | 1st round | 4th overall | 11X
Orlando Pace | 1997 | 1st round | 1st overall | 7X
Tarik Glenn | 1997 | 1st round | 19th overall | 3X
Tra Thomas | 1998 | 1st round | 11th overall | 3X
Willie Roaf | 1993 | 1st round | 8th overall | 11X
Chris Samuels | 2000 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 6X


Here is our guys. See a difference?

Willie Colon | 2006 | 4th round | 131st overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS
Max Starks | 2004 | 3rd round | 75th overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS


As you can plainly see with the exception of Jason Peters of the Bills who was an Unrestricted Free Agent, all the pro-bowl tackles of the past 5 or 6 years were top picks in the draft. My point is that if the Steelers want to see their O-line significantly improve maybe we need to place a little more emphasis in our draft picks on the O-line. You can coach a terd, you can polish a terd, you can even dress up a terd to look like something else, but in the end it is still a terd. You want a stud, you better go early and be prepared to move up to get one!


Wouldn't a Michael Oher or a Eugene Monroe look good in the Black&Gold? :yesnod:

Lunchbucket
12-23-2008, 10:27 PM
Who was our last first round O line draft pick? Was it Alan Faneca? How many years has it been?

DIESELMAN
12-23-2008, 10:37 PM
Did a little research on pro-bowl tackles going back to the 2003 season. Below is the list of OT's and where they were drafted in their perspective draft. I think you will find the list eye opening. Listed by name, year drafted, round drafted, overall draft #, number of times selected to the pro-bowl.


Jordan Gross | 2003 | 1st round | 8th overall | 1X
Walter Jones | 1997 | 1st round | 6th overall | 9X
Jason Peters | 2004 | UFA | UFA | 2X
Joe Thomas | 2007 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 2X
Flozell Adams | 1998 | 2nd round | 38th overall | 4X
Matt Light | 2001 | 2nd round | 48th overall | 2X
Willie Anderson | 1996 | 1st round |10th overall | 4X
Jonathon Ogden | 1996 | 1st round | 4th overall | 11X
Orlando Pace | 1997 | 1st round | 1st overall | 7X
Tarik Glenn | 1997 | 1st round | 19th overall | 3X
Tra Thomas | 1998 | 1st round | 11th overall | 3X
Willie Roaf | 1993 | 1st round | 8th overall | 11X
Chris Samuels | 2000 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 6X

Here is our guys. See a difference?

Willie Colon | 2006 | 4th round | 131st overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS
Max Starks | 2004 | 3rd round | 75th overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS

As you can plainly see with the exception of Jason Peters of the Bills who was an Unrestricted Free Agent, all the pro-bowl tackles of the past 5 or 6 years were top picks in the draft. My point is that if the Steelers want to see their O-line significantly improve maybe we need to place a little more emphasis in our draft picks on the O-line. You can coach a terd, you can polish a terd, you can even dress up a terd to look like something else, but in the end it is still a terd. You want a stud, you better go early and be prepared to move up to get one!


Wouldn't a Michael Oher or a Eugene Monroe look good in the Black&Gold? :yesnod:

:plus1: Yeah, we've been blowing off drafting a stud OT for some time now. With the way Ben has been tossed around the past few years, its time for a serious investment.


Who was our last first round O line draft pick? Was it Alan Faneca? How many years has it been?

Actually it was Kendall Simmons in 2002, Faneca was drafted in 1998

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 10:20 AM
Here is the our O-line.

Max Starks | 2004 | 3rd round | 75th overall | ZERO PRO BOWLS
Chris Kemoeatu | 2005 | 6th round | 204th overall | ZERO PRO BOWLS
Justin Hartwig | 2002 | 6th round | 187th overall | ZERO PRO BOWLS
Darnell Stapleton | 2007 | UFA | UFA | ZERO PRO BOWLS
Willie Colon | 2006 | 4th round | 131st overall | ZERO PRO BOWLS


That is a pretty rag tag bunch and if you compared it to any other teams O-line I believe you would see why ours is one of the worst O-lines in the entire league. The whole line is piecemealed together with scraps. Not a single player is a thoroughbred to build around. Sometimes you get exactly what you pay for! :yesnod:

One of the happiest men around must be Alan Faneca (1st round, 26th overall, 10X Pro Bowls) who left this bunch to go play with some studs.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson | 2006 | 1st round | 4th overall |Zero Pro Bowls
Nick Mangold | 2006 | 2nd round | 29th overall | 1X Pro Bowls
Damien Woody | 1999 | 1st round | 17th overall | 1X Pro Bowls

Mangold and Ferguson are future perrenial pro-bowlers. Woody is a stud who has already won a couple SB's with the Patriots.

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 10:42 AM
We've got the weapons on offense, now its time to get a franchise OT and a road grading OG and not in that particular order.

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 10:45 AM
We've got the weapons on offense, now its time to get a franchise OT and a road grading OG and not in that particular order.

I would be happy if we wheeled and dealed and cashed in all of our draft picks to pick the top tackle and top guard in the draft. 2 solid draft horses who we could build around. Throw the scraps back into the scrap heap. :lol:

Most football fans know that games are won or lost in the trenches. On the defensive side we have some real warriors and they win the battles most of the time. On the offensive side we recruited some of the local peasants and are asking them to battle with real warriors........and they are losing most of the time. Yet, some are surprised by these results. I am not!

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 10:53 AM
I would be happy if we wheeled and dealed and cashed in all of our draft picks to pick the top tackle and top guard in the draft. 2 solid draft horses who we could build around. Throw the scraps back into the scrap heap. :lol:

We have to do something about our OL in next years draft and I'm not talking day 2. This is getting pitiful.....every year we wait and wait and ****ing wait, we got nothing to show for it except no running game and Ben gettin killed every year.

Steelersfan
12-24-2008, 11:00 AM
Anyone know of any good FA's for next year they could look at? Not saying they don't need to draft too. I'd just like to see a good vet come in that can take control of the line and teach whomever is drafted.

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 11:00 AM
I'm okay with the Steelers staying out of the free agent market and building through the draft. I am not happy that other teams like the Cowboys and Patriots are wheeling and dealing on draft day to position themselves to get the players THAT THEY WANT, while our team seems content to stay where they are at and take whatever they can get. Make some moves, package some picks, target the guy you want and go get him! If we don't do that soon we won't need to worry about grabbing quality picks because we will be moving near the front of the picking order! :yesnod:

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 11:06 AM
Anyone know of any good FA's for next year they could look at? Not saying they don't need to draft too. I'd just like to see a good vet come in that can take control of the line and teach whomever is drafted.
Nothin to brag about or won't get resigned by their current clubs.

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 11:20 AM
Is Michael Oher playing left tackle for the Steelers in 2009! :hilarious:

And if I was really good you can throw in a Duke Robinson at RG.

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Is Michael Oher playing left tackle for the Steelers in 2009! :hilarious:That would be sweet but he'll be a top 5 pick and we played way better then anyone we would. Anyone watch LSU's OG Herman Johnson play this season?

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 11:33 AM
That would be sweet but he'll be a top 5 pick and we played way better then anyone we would. Anyone watch LSU's OG Herman Johnson play this season?

No, I haven't. I was thinking maybe we could have a shot at Phil Loadholt (OT) from Oklahoma. The guy is 6'8 350 and along with Duke Robinson part of an O-line that has destroyed most who lined up in front of it this year. Herman Johnson is listed at 6'7 386 that sounds a little heavy to me. Is he a fat-***?

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 11:50 AM
No, I haven't. I was thinking maybe we could have a shot at Phil Loadholt (OT) from Oklahoma. The guy is 6'8 350 and along with Duke Robinson part of an O-line that has destroyed most who lined up in front of it this year. Herman Johnson is listed at 6'7 386 that sounds a little heavy to me. Is he a fat-***?

I don't think so.....some places have him listed as 350-360

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/16/161687.jpg

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 11:55 AM
No, I haven't. I was thinking maybe we could have a shot at Phil Loadholt (OT) from Oklahoma. The guy is 6'8 350 and along with Duke Robinson part of an O-line that has destroyed most who lined up in front of it this year.
The way Mendenhall and Sweed fell to us last year, you never know what will happen in the draft. I would love to see us get both Robinson and Loadholt!! Stranger things have happened.....

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 12:04 PM
The way Mendenhall and Sweed fell to us last year, you never know what will happen in the draft. I would love to see us get both Robinson and Loadholt!! Stranger things have happened.....


That is true. It is possible because underclassmen have not yet started to declare whether they are entering the NFL draft yet. When they do you can expect the whole scout.com draft board to undergo drastic changes which could slide someone like Robinson or Loadholt down even further. I'll bet at least a third of the 1st rounders will end up being underclassmen. Most of the underclassmen who do declare are usually studs who know they will be drafted high. :yesnod:

Also with 7 offensive tackles selected last year by the 20th pick in the first round there will be a few less teams in the market for franchise tackles. Who might be this years Branden Albert (underclassmen) who started off as a late 2nd rounder and eventually ended up as the 15th pick overall to the Chiefs?

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/58/581070.jpg
Phil Loadholt, OT, 6'8 350

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/54/546448.jpg
Duke Robinson, OG, 6'5 330

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2008, 12:36 PM
Did a little research on pro-bowl tackles going back to the 2003 season. Below is the list of OT's and where they were drafted in their perspective draft. I think you will find the list eye opening. Listed by name, year drafted, round drafted, overall draft #, number of times selected to the pro-bowl.


Jordan Gross | 2003 | 1st round | 8th overall | 1X
Walter Jones | 1997 | 1st round | 6th overall | 9X
Jason Peters | 2004 | UFA | UFA | 2X
Joe Thomas | 2007 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 2X
Flozell Adams | 1998 | 2nd round | 38th overall | 4X
Matt Light | 2001 | 2nd round | 48th overall | 2X
Willie Anderson | 1996 | 1st round |10th overall | 4X
Jonathon Ogden | 1996 | 1st round | 4th overall | 11X
Orlando Pace | 1997 | 1st round | 1st overall | 7X
Tarik Glenn | 1997 | 1st round | 19th overall | 3X
Tra Thomas | 1998 | 1st round | 11th overall | 3X
Willie Roaf | 1993 | 1st round | 8th overall | 11X
Chris Samuels | 2000 | 1st round | 3rd overall | 6X

Here is our guys. See a difference?

Willie Colon | 2006 | 4th round | 131st overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS
Max Starks | 2004 | 3rd round | 75th overall | ZERO PRO-BOWLS

As you can plainly see with the exception of Jason Peters of the Bills who was an Unrestricted Free Agent, all the pro-bowl tackles of the past 5 or 6 years were top picks in the draft. My point is that if the Steelers want to see their O-line significantly improve maybe we need to place a little more emphasis in our draft picks on the O-line. You can coach a terd, you can polish a terd, you can even dress up a terd to look like something else, but in the end it is still a terd. You want a stud, you better go early and be prepared to move up to get one!


Wouldn't a Michael Oher or a Eugene Monroe look good in the Black&Gold? :yesnod:

No shock that most Pro Bowl OL were drafted within the first two rounds of the draft.....The Steelers will have no shot at Oher or Monroe....I really want Andre Smith from Alabama but he will be the first OT taken in the draft....His stock will rise by the time the combine and draft gets here....He is already a top 15 pick but I think Smith will go within the top 5.....I also think Oher will go between the top 5-10....With Monroe going anywhere from 10-15.....The Steelers will have to trade up if they want those guys....I also like Jason Smith from Baylor....But I also think he will be gone by the time the Steelers draft in the first round....

At this point I wouldn't mind Duke Robinson in the first round if his stock holds up to a first round pick....I think it will be but you never know who will drop......But Ciron Black is an OT I wouldn't mind the Steelers taken a shot at in the 2nd round....

If the Steelers can't land Oher, Andre Smith or Jason Smith, or Eugene Monroe..........Then I wouldn't mind Duke Robinson and Ciron Black in the first two rounds....I really like Max Unger to.....But OT is such a higher need then center....

I don't want nothing to do with Loadholt.....I think his stock will fall and he will end being drafted in the 3rd or maybe even 4th round....Mark it down....

DIESELMAN
12-24-2008, 12:41 PM
http://www.walterfootball.com/images/fball/HJohnson_int.jpg

Herman Johnson 79

POSITION: Offensive Line
HEIGHT: 6-7
WEIGHT: 356
CLASS: Junior
EXPERIENCE: 2L
HIGH SCHOOL: Denton HS
HOMETOWN: Olla, La.


2008 Preseason First-Team All-SEC (SEC Coaches, SEC Media)
2007 First-Team All-SEC (AP, SEC Coaches)
One of the most physically imposing players in college football ... Tremendous physical specimen who is the biggest player to ever wear the purple and gold ... Returns as the starter at left guard ... Can also play both tackle positions ... Has also lined up in the backfield in short-yardage and goal-line situations ... Has all of the tools necessary, including a huge frame, to dominate at the collegiate level ... Physically overpowers defensive tackles ... Has surprisingly quick feet and good mechanics despite his huge size ... Goes into his senior season with 25 career starts (22 at left guard, three at right guard) ... Has seen action in a total of 37 games in his LSU career.

JUNIOR SEASON (2007)
Starter in all 14 games at left guard ... Earned first-team All-SEC honors from both the AP and the SEC Coaches ... Paved the way for an LSU rushing attack that rated second in the SEC and 11th nationally ... Joined Ciron Black as the only players in school history to play more than 1,000 plays from scrimmage in a single season ... Played a total of 1,030 snaps as a junior, one fewer than Black ... Credited with 58 knockdown blocks and two pancake blocks ... Recorded 11 knockdowns and a pancake block, both season highs, in the win over Tulane ... Had eight knockdowns in the win over South Carolina ... Played every offensive snap in games against South Carolina (69 plays), Florida (80), Kentucky (91), Auburn (68), Arkansas (101) and Tennessee (81).

SOPHOMORE SEASON (2006)
Started the last 10 games of the season on the offensive line ... Got the nod at right guard twice and left guard eight times ... Recorded 62 knockdown blocks and 22 pancake blocks ... Played a total of 649 snaps from scrimmage ... Didnít miss a snap in four straight games (vs. Tennessee, Alabama, Ole Miss and Arkansas) ... Recorded a season-high 17 knockdown blocks and four pancakes in the Tigersí win over Tennessee ... Contributed nine knockdowns vs. Alabama ... Had a season-best five pancake blocks to go along with three knockdowns against Florida ... Did not play against Auburn.

REDSHIRT FRESHMAN SEASON (2005)
Played in 11 games with one start ... Started for first time in career against Vanderbilt ... Also saw action on LSUís field goal and PAT protection units ... Saw action on 160 snaps from scrimmage, which included a career-best 39 against Vanderbilt and 25 against Mississippi State .... Recorded one pancake and 25 knockdowns ... Did not allow a sack and gave up just two quarterback pressures.

FRESHMAN SEASON (2004)
Played in two games ... Granted a medical redshirt ... Saw action on 13 snaps against Arkansas State and then played 29 snaps in a win over Mississippi State ... Missed all of fall camp after getting an infection from a spider bite.

HIGH SCHOOL
One of the most sought after offensive lineman in the nation ... Graded out at 88 percent at tackle and did not allow an entire sack his senior season ... Shined in the U.S. Army All-American Bowl in December of 2003 ... Coached by Gary Fischer.

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't want nothing to do with Loadholt.....I think his stock will fall and he will end being drafted in the 3rd or maybe even 4th round....Mark it down....


I remember that you and I both said that about Jeff Otah last year and he has turned out to be a dominant tackle for the Panthers. I have been impressed by him in the Carolina games I have watched. :yesnod:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2008, 12:59 PM
I remember that you and I both said that about Jeff Otah last year and he has turned out to be a dominant tackle for the Panthers. I have been impressed by him in the Carolina games I have watched. :yesnod:

I wasn't high on Jeff Otah but I never thought of his stock falling that to the 3rd or 4th round....I wouldn't have minded the Steelers drafting him in the 2nd round at all....But still Otah has proved to be a great first round pick this year....Lets not forget that he is still just a rookie so lets not enshirne him in Canton just yet......But yes I have been impressed with Otah to this year.....

I'm not that impressed with Loadholt....I have watched some Oklahoma games this year and he really didn't stand out to me....I'm not saying he sucked but I didn't jump out of my chair saying wow what a badass...lol I also didn't see every Oklahoma game so I'm far from an expert on Sooner games.....I think Loadholt has Max Starks written all over him.....I don't think we would want another Max Starks...

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 01:15 PM
This is the scouting report from Chris Steuber. I am in no way fixated on this guy but he doesn't sound all that bad to me. Of course I would love to see Oher or Monroe but as you have said they will be long gone before we pick. Jason Smith seems a little undersized. They have him listed at 270 which woulda worked in the 70's or 80's. You are asking a lot if you want him to block 320-350 pound DT's (Shawn Rogers).


Phil Loadholt
Ht: 6-8 Wt: 350
Position: OT
Class: Senior
Junior College: Garden City
College: Oklahoma

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/58/589284m.jpg

Scout.com Player Evaluation:
STRENGTHS
Power And Strength
Size
Toughness
AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT
Body Control and Balance
Feet

Loadholt is a huge, monstrous tackle who can shed the opposition away with ease. He stays square to the opposition, has good technique and uses his brute strength to his advantage to knock defenders off their rush. He's a strong run-blocker who drives the opposition off the line and finishes his blocks until the whistle blows. - Chris Steuber, Scout.com

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2008, 02:02 PM
This is the scouting report from Chris Steuber. I am in no way fixated on this guy but he doesn't sound all that bad to me. Of course I would love to see Oher or Monroe but as you have said they will be long gone before we pick. Jason Smith seems a little undersized. They have him listed at 270 which woulda worked in the 70's or 80's. You are asking a lot if you want him to block 320-350 pound DT's (Shawn Rogers).

That scouting report of Loadholt sounds like Max Starks to me......It seems Loadholt is just another big *** dude that can dominate in college but will be average at best in the NFL.....Read about his footwork and balance....Those are two areas were Starks has been very **** poor.....I think Max Starks has looked alright this year for filling in for Smith at LT....But still I'm far from saying Starks is a very good LT.....lol

Maybe I'm wrong on Loadholt but I wouldn't spend a first round or second round pick on the guy....In the third round then ok if he is there....Which I think he will be....If that is true about Jason Smith then yea I agree he won't be able to play OT in the NFL at that weight.......But he probably could add 10-15 pounds and play OG.....Which then I would rather have Duke Robinson....

BlackGold4vr
12-24-2008, 05:07 PM
I am still holding out to see what underclassmen declare themselves eligible for the draft. So far just one has declared and he is currently ranked #7 on scout.com's draft board (Vontae Davis, Illinois, CB, 6'0 204). There will be many more and some of them will be studs. By the time all the underclassmen declare there might just be enough OT's for us to grab one.......I hope! :lol:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2008, 05:24 PM
I am still holding out to see what underclassmen declare themselves eligible for the draft. So far just one has declared and he is currently ranked #7 on scout.com's draft board (Vontae Davis, Illinois, CB, 6'0 204). There will be many more and some of them will be studs. By the time all the underclassmen declare there might just be enough OT's for us to grab one.......I hope! :lol:

I hope so to 4ver......The Steelers can not afford to head into another season with these current clowns at OTs or the OL in general.....Its going to be hard to fix the entire OL in one off-season but the drafting of an first round OT would be a nice start.....I would like to see two OTs drafted......Take a shot at a Loadholt in the 3rd if he is there but the Steelers must do everything in their power to land a top prospect at the OT position....Even if it means trading up.......