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View Full Version : Life without Hines Ward!



Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 06:35 AM
Anybody ever think what our team will be like without Hines Ward? I know he still has a couple productive years left, but the end will come one day. He is one of the players that you just expect to be there every game. Alot of our fire, feeds from him. His furious blocking, or his grit to fight for every yard has to be contagious for his team mates. I was just talking about this the other day with someone who was going to buy a jersey for Christmas, and didn`t want a Ward jersey because his time is limited. Wow it will suck, we can draft a wideout with good hands, or one that runs great routes, but is there another Hines Ward?

Captcoolhand
11-24-2008, 06:48 AM
Wow, you're on early! Did you wake up dreaming about this.....:D

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 06:59 AM
No! I`m kinda going through a layoff!

Captcoolhand
11-24-2008, 07:05 AM
No! I`m kinda going through a layoff!Join the club...And it sucks too! :yesnod:

DIESELMAN
11-24-2008, 07:07 AM
There will never be another Hines Ward in the NFL. The way he runs routes, has great hands and his blocks are out of this world devastating (ask Keith Rivers and anyone on the Ratbirds defense :greengrin:). You can tell his style has rubbed off on the other receivers, maybe not as well but they are getting there. We do have Holmes, Washington and Sweed is up and coming. Hopefully Ward will stay on as a receivers coach once he retires.

steelersgal86
11-24-2008, 07:13 AM
There will never be another Hines Ward in the NFL. The way he runs routes, has great hands and his blocks are out of this world devastating (ask Keith Rivers and anyone on the Ratbirds defense :greengrin:). You can tell his style has rubbed off on the other receivers, maybe not as well but they are getting there. We do have Holmes, Washington and Sweed is up and coming. Hopefully Ward will stay on as a receivers coach once he retires.

Now that would be nice...I think Hines is great...he is such a positive person a great leader...I love how he is always smiling and you know if he is not then look out..I agree it would be great to see him as a receivers coach after he retires...

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 07:26 AM
I just hope, that before he goes, he leaves his legacy, and everyone on the team at that time follows in his footsteps!

Prosdo
11-24-2008, 07:41 AM
It will be odd not seeing Hines on the field, but it was odd not seeing the Bus there as well. Interesting to see how the team dynamic will change.

BlitzburghRockCity
11-24-2008, 08:01 AM
Hines is second to none and if he doesn't make it to the HOF someday it will be a travesty IMO. He is the single best draft pick to ever come out of the Cowher era; even on the same level as Big Ben. Ward does everything you ask and then some and is respected all over the league. He may not have the numbers of some of his counterparts but you can bet your last dollar there isn't a team in the NFL that wouldn't want Hines in their colors on Sunday.

HUNT4SEVEN
11-24-2008, 08:05 AM
Hines is an special player, He's an mixture of old school an new school, we won't be able to replace Hines but i hope hwe stays on as an Reciever coach when he retires:imho::tt02::yellowthumb:

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 09:32 AM
Hines is an special player, He's an mixture of old school an new school, we won't be able to replace Hines but i hope hwe stays on as an Reciever coach when he retires:imho::tt02::yellowthumb:

Great thought!

Axeman
11-24-2008, 09:58 AM
Hines is second to none and if he doesn't make it to the HOF someday it will be a travesty IMO. He is the single best draft pick to ever come out of the Cowher era; even on the same level as Big Ben. Ward does everything you ask and then some and is respected all over the league. He may not have the numbers of some of his counterparts but you can bet your last dollar there isn't a team in the NFL that wouldn't want Hines in their colors on Sunday.

he better make it to the HOF, here are his #'s compared to the 2 Steelers HOF wr's

Ward- Yrs....Games....Rec.....Yds.......TD
11 165 773 9455 70

Swann- 8 115 336 5462 51

Stallworth 14 165 537 8723 63


and Hines still has a few years left, Hines is going to leave a hefty mark for anyone to pass him in a Steelers Uniform. Hines is and always will be the Steelers GOAT.

jpele
11-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Hopefully Ward will stay on as a receivers coach once he retires.

I would rather see him coach the O'line, they could learn a lot from Hines.:yesnod:

ejsteeler
11-24-2008, 12:43 PM
It will suck without him, but to keep him on in any fashion would be a boost to this teams core.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Ward's cap hit is something like 9 million next year so if he doesn't take a pay cut then life without Hines Ward could be next year......Sorry I like Hines Ward as much as anyone but he isn't worth that 9 million cap hit.....

Dean Denton
11-24-2008, 03:22 PM
I think he's worth every penny. He's a big reason a run game works at all to the outside, and he gives this team hidden yards. No WR is more of an MVP to their team then Ward.

floodcitygirl
11-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Geesh! I haven't been able to log in today until now and saw the title of this thread and nearly lost my lunch! Scared me to death. lol

I don't want to think about no having Hines yet. He's a huge asset to the team in more ways than just his play on the field.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-24-2008, 04:12 PM
I think he's worth every penny. He's a big reason a run game works at all to the outside, and he gives this team hidden yards. No WR is more of an MVP to their team then Ward.

Ward at his age isn't worth 9 million sorry but you're crazy if you think so.....

BlitzburghRockCity
11-24-2008, 04:16 PM
Have you seen our offense without him on the field man..LOL. Until we get a quality 3rd WR that can step up when Hines isn't available he is worth every penny we pay him, so to speak.

He's still got 2 or 3 good years left in him for sure but beyond that this team is going to have to look to Sweed in addition to another FA or draft pick to start grooming for the future. It took Holmes 2 full seasons to really begin to get a grasp of what he's doing and be a legitimate threat. Washington isn't that guy and never will be for us if you ask me so that leaves Sweed for right now.

Steelersfan
11-24-2008, 04:16 PM
he better make it to the HOF, here are his #'s compared to the 2 Steelers HOF wr's

Ward- Yrs....Games....Rec.....Yds.......TD
11 165 773 9455 70

Swann- 8 115 336 5462 51

Stallworth 14 165 537 8723 63


and Hines still has a few years left, Hines is going to leave a hefty mark for anyone to pass him in a Steelers Uniform. Hines is and always will be the Steelers GOAT.


You can't compare him to Swann and Stallworth. It is how he compares to other WR's of his time. I'm not saying he will or won't get in, just that they all played in different era's and voters (I would think) will compare Ward to players that played around the same time as him.

Black@Gold Forever32
11-24-2008, 04:24 PM
Have you seen our offense without him on the field man..LOL. Until we get a quality 3rd WR that can step up when Hines isn't available he is worth every penny we pay him, so to speak.

He's still got 2 or 3 good years left in him for sure but beyond that this team is going to have to look to Sweed in addition to another FA or draft pick to start grooming for the future. It took Holmes 2 full seasons to really begin to get a grasp of what he's doing and be a legitimate threat. Washington isn't that guy and never will be for us if you ask me so that leaves Sweed for right now.

I understand that but its unrealistic to think that the Steelers will keep Ward with a 9 million cap hit next year....I'm sure they will ask Ward to redo his deal to make it more cap friendly.....I'm sure Hines will be a good soldier and help the team also....You forget I always deal with reality when looking at any situation.....

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 04:39 PM
I do think that Hines will renegoatiate. I think he knew that his contract was to large and too long. Was it deserved? Yes! It looks like he is coaching already, Holmes is turning into a good blocker

Dee Mca
11-24-2008, 04:41 PM
He'll restructure to retire as a steeler. I'm sure theirs a place in Canton for Hines. Then a place on the sidelines for him.
Yrs....Games....Rec.....Yds.......TD
Ward- 11 165 773 9455 70
(With Qb's like Brister, Blackledge, O'donnell, Tomczak, Miller, Stewart, Granham, Maddox not really the same as Montana and Young like Rice had for most of his career)
Rice- 19 303 1549 22895 197

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 04:44 PM
Would like to see him get to 10,000 this season! 110 a game average

K Train
11-24-2008, 04:55 PM
and yet i cant ever remember losing a game when he was hurt...guys step up

ward is no hall of famer, theres wrs better than him that are still waiting to get in

Dean Denton
11-24-2008, 06:38 PM
and yet i cant ever remember losing a game when he was hurt...guys step up

ward is no hall of famer, theres wrs better than him that are still waiting to get in Yeah I doubt any of thoughs WR waiting to get in could have done for this team what Ward has. Ward is a special player, and tougher than any WR I have ever seen. He can get it on blocking alone. He's that master at it, and every team wishes they had that. What good would Rice have been for this team? This has always been a run team first, and Ward is a big reason we could do that.

Stairwayto7
11-24-2008, 06:39 PM
and yet i cant ever remember losing a game when he was hurt...guys step up

ward is no hall of famer, theres wrs better than him that are still waiting to get in

Better numbers? Yes! Better all-round? Huh!

K Train
11-24-2008, 09:20 PM
ward is a good player dont get me wrong, hes not a HOF caliber wr though...ok he blocks, sure yeah...ive seen nate and holmes block the **** out of players before. Ward has some highlight blocks because he lays people out, alot of the times they borderline dirty hits, hes just smart about it alot of the times....because thats what he is, hes a smart player. Hes a clutch player and hes good at making clutch catches but hes not even top 10 right now and hes really never been among the top 10 of active wrs, how does that give him hall of fame credentials? he does all the little things well and sticks to what hes good at but hes basically a 5-11 TE

Stairwayto7
11-25-2008, 06:27 AM
ward is a good player dont get me wrong, hes not a HOF caliber wr though...ok he blocks, sure yeah...ive seen nate and holmes block the shiat out of players before. Ward has some highlight blocks because he lays people out, alot of the times they borderline dirty hits, hes just smart about it alot of the times....because thats what he is, hes a smart player. Hes a clutch player and hes good at making clutch catches but hes not even top 10 right now and hes really never been among the top 10 of active wrs, how does that give him hall of fame credentials? he does all the little things well and sticks to what hes good at but hes basically a 5-11 TE

Lynn Swann made it! Why shouldn`t Ward!

Steelersfan
11-25-2008, 08:28 AM
Lynn Swann made it! Why shouldn`t Ward!

Different era. You have to compare Ward to WR's of his time. I'm really 50/50 on whether or not he gets in.

JensK
11-25-2008, 09:40 AM
Different era. You have to compare Ward to WR's of his time. I'm really 50/50 on whether or not he gets in.

Skillwise, i really do not think so. He is not that spectacular player, who makes one-hand catches all the time. He is consistant and he is a go-to guy, but he is not HOF material imho. Spiritwise, no doub about it.

Stairwayto7
11-25-2008, 09:52 AM
Different era. You have to compare Ward to WR's of his time. I'm really 50/50 on whether or not he gets in.

I`m not! My point is Swann had worse numbers than players of his era. But he helped win games, big games. Compare Swanns numbers to others in the 70`s.

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 11:18 AM
Has a case of mental retardation swept over everyone? Ward is the all time leader at WR in Pittsburgh, and last time I checked we had some pretty good ones in this city. When you look at any position in the NFL, and you have a player that is best all time at one of the things that that player is suppose to do, its hard not to say he is worthy of the HOF. There has never been a WR that blocks like Ward. There has never been a WR that gets you hidden yards like Ward. And when I say hidden yards, I'm talking about all the flags that get thrown because he draws late hits, or personal fouls. He can turn a 10 yard play into 25. Think about the 2 great QB Rice had throwing him the ball, then look at the sorry shiat stains that have been throwing to Ward. Then look at the style of play that Pittsburgh has been doing, and how few chances Ward has had to make plays. Yet every time the guy has come up big. There never has been a player like Ward, and I doubt you will see one like him after he's gone. Dirty my *** K train, its called football, and if more players at WR played like him, maybe this league wouldn't be turning into some kind of bitch sport with everyone crying about the hits.

If you can let someone like Steve Largent into the HOF, then its a no brainer that Hines gets in too. You tell me one WR that was more of an MVP to their team then what Ward has been to this one. How many SB MVP WR are not in the HOF?

Hines is the definition of Steeler football. Tough, physical, and gives you 110% everytime he takes the field. I have yet to see a WR play with more passion then hines Ward. You all that dont give him the nod for the HOF should be ashamed. If not for him we would have 4 rings not 5.

ejsteeler
11-25-2008, 12:32 PM
Has a case of mental retardation swept over everyone? Ward is the all time leader at WR in Pittsburgh, and last time I checked we had some pretty good ones in this city. When you look at any position in the NFL, and you have a player that is best all time at one of the things that that player is suppose to do, its hard not to say he is worthy of the HOF. There has never been a WR that blocks like Ward. There has never been a WR that gets you hidden yards like Ward. And when I say hidden yards, I'm talking about all the flags that get thrown because he draws late hits, or personal fouls. He can turn a 10 yard play into 25. Think about the 2 great QB Rice had throwing him the ball, then look at the sorry shiat stains that have been throwing to Ward. Then look at the style of play that Pittsburgh has been doing, and how few chances Ward has had to make plays. Yet every time the guy has come up big. There never has been a player like Ward, and I doubt you will see one like him after he's gone. Dirty my *** K train, its called football, and if more players at WR played like him, maybe this league wouldn't be turning into some kind of bitch sport with everyone crying about the hits.

If you can let someone like Steve Largent into the HOF, then its a no brainer that Hines gets in too. You tell me one WR that was more of an MVP to their team then what Ward has been to this one. How many SB MVP WR are not in the HOF?

Hines is the definition of Steeler football. Tough, physical, and gives you 110% everytime he takes the field. I have yet to see a WR play with more passion then hines Ward. You all that dont give him the nod for the HOF should be ashamed. If not for him we would have 4 rings not 5.

:plus1: I'm right there with you on this one......

K Train
11-25-2008, 01:09 PM
Has a case of mental retardation swept over everyone? Ward is the all time leader at WR in Pittsburgh, and last time I checked we had some pretty good ones in this city. When you look at any position in the NFL, and you have a player that is best all time at one of the things that that player is suppose to do, its hard not to say he is worthy of the HOF. There has never been a WR that blocks like Ward. There has never been a WR that gets you hidden yards like Ward. And when I say hidden yards, I'm talking about all the flags that get thrown because he draws late hits, or personal fouls. He can turn a 10 yard play into 25. Think about the 2 great QB Rice had throwing him the ball, then look at the sorry shiat stains that have been throwing to Ward. Then look at the style of play that Pittsburgh has been doing, and how few chances Ward has had to make plays. Yet every time the guy has come up big. There never has been a player like Ward, and I doubt you will see one like him after he's gone. Dirty my *** K train, its called football, and if more players at WR played like him, maybe this league wouldn't be turning into some kind of bitch sport with everyone crying about the hits.

If you can let someone like Steve Largent into the HOF, then its a no brainer that Hines gets in too. You tell me one WR that was more of an MVP to their team then what Ward has been to this one. How many SB MVP WR are not in the HOF?

Hines is the definition of Steeler football. Tough, physical, and gives you 110% everytime he takes the field. I have yet to see a WR play with more passion then hines Ward. You all that dont give him the nod for the HOF should be ashamed. If not for him we would have 4 rings not 5.

oh yeah we should be ashamed...the definition of steeler smashmouth football. its all bullshit. Being the leading wr on the steelers is NOT that big of an accomplishment compared to other teams, hes a good player but damn hop off his nuts. Swann made it because 1) he was considered to be one of the best back in his time when all they did was run the football and 2) he was on a team that one 4 superbowls.....those credentials get you in. And your fooling yourself if youve never seen ward throw a cheap shop, i get it that its football but his blocking is a little overrated because thats all hes known for is highlight blocks because thats what hes best at, while other wrs who block are more known for their skill at the position and going deep...i assure you hes not the only blocking wr...he'll make the steelers all star team but a hall of famer he is not

Stlrs4Life
11-25-2008, 01:28 PM
No, and don't want to think about it yet.

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 01:41 PM
First off the last 2 SB that 70's team won was done through the air more than running the football. Look at the points and stats. They were airing that out big time. And there are no other WR that block. What they do is called holding or just getting in the way. If what Ward did was cheap, then there would be flags. You know there would be flags. thats all they do now is throw flags. And those old Swann teams won those Sb with Def more than Off. Its hard to beat a team if you cant score on them.
Hines would be considered great in any era not just his own. Hines is more than just a WR, he's a football player. And the way this team has run the Off since 1992 there is not another WR I would rather have. Sure Harrison, Moss, TO, and a handful of others are better at the deep ball, but thats not the Off we have ever run here. If it were I would have a different opinion. All the WR today can not say that they are better at any one thing the way Ward can. He's a complete player thats not great at any one thing other than blocking, but is good at everything. Owens is great a dropping passes, Moss is great for making a fool of himself, same for Ocho stinko. Harrison has been money through out his carreer, so I have nothing to say bad about him other than if he were here he would not have had the kind of numbers that he does now. And he would not be looked at like he is because of the lack of production he would have had. You do not build your team around a WR, they just have to fit in. The day you build your team around the WR, you lose......Like i said, if Largent gets in, so does Ward. He's better. On top of all that Ward is more of a team leader than any WR playing today. Its not just what you do in the field that makes you great.

K Train
11-25-2008, 04:08 PM
you cant base it on who got in before and if your better than them your a lock to get in...90% of the players today are better than players in the same position playing in the 70s...that doesnt mean they are going to the hall of fame.

ward is not a hall of famer, he doesnt have the credentials and im sorry but "heart" just doesnt cut it...you will be waiting a long *** time jus to never see him get inducted

it is possible for a guy to just have a good long career and that be what hes remembered for....just being a solid player his whole career.

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 04:36 PM
you cant base it on who got in before and if your better than them your a lock to get in...90% of the players today are better than players in the same position playing in the 70s...that doesnt mean they are going to the hall of fame.

ward is not a hall of famer, he doesnt have the credentials and im sorry but "heart" just doesnt cut it...you will be waiting a long *** time jus to never see him get inducted

it is possible for a guy to just have a good long career and that be what hes remembered for....just being a solid player his whole career. I would agree with you if that were the case with Ward. But his numbers speak volumes about his play. and is a SB MVP. However, this team like the team of the 70's is a run first team, and yet Ward still has more TD's and Rec than any Steelers before him. and like you said, Hines has not always been the #1 WR on this team. If you are the #1 TD's, Rec on a team like The STEELERS,,,dude, your going to the HOF. What WR, that is not in the HOF, waiting to get in, is better than Ward? What WR has been more of an MVP to his team then Ward that is not in the HOF? Sorry, but when you let crap like Michael Irving into the HOF, I doubt they set the bar too high. He was not a team leader, he was a cancer, and a joke. The only reason they got 3 SB is because there was no salary cap. You can say Hines doesn't belong in the HOF, but the fact is he will be the first WR to go in as a first ballet. He will win in a land slide. Also, he might have another ring too.

Not sure what it is about Hines that you dont think he should get the nod. You act like all the top WR in this league would have had a better career here. I say fat chance. They are to selfish, and Cowher would have never given them the ball. Plus we didn't have anyone to get them the ball until 2004. Could you imagine Owens in Pittsburgh? Throw him the ball 4 times a game, he drops in 2 or 3 times...come on man....Also Rod Woodson as said it himself that Hines Ward is the BEST Steeler WR in the history of the team. I think he would know before either one of when it comes to great players and what it takes to make it into the HOF. This conversation with him came up when they kept Ward, and cut Plexi......Look it up. Your on your own with this one. but thats ok. We can always agree can we?

K Train
11-25-2008, 04:49 PM
now you think hes a first ballot hall of famer? there is no ****ing way, if by some chance he makes it it definitely wont be first ballot...not a chance in hell, do you understand what you have to do to be a first ballot hall of famer?

and btw TO would dominate in pittsburgh, just like he dominates no matter where he plays...no one said hes a good guy, but being a good guy doesnt always make you the best...the point im stressing is ward isnt even among the top 10 active wrs...how do you expect to place him among the all time greats?

first ballot lol

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 05:02 PM
If Ward isn't in the top 10 this year its not his fault we dont throw the ball. We aren't in the top 10 anything on Off this year. Are you saying Ward isn't good enough to throw to 10-15 times a game? He is more clutch the Owens.

I dont know what your basing Owens dominating in Pitts on. The guy leads the league almost every year in drops. What, you think once he gets here he stops dropping the ball? We would never throw the ball enough for him to make an impact here. Like I said you build your team around a WR, and you lose. He would get cut after 1 or 2 seasons. Cowher would not have changed his play calling with TO. He's too inconsistant. Do you watch football man? Really...Owens in Pittsburgh huh? laughable man..

And yes Ward will go 1st Ballet. There has never been anyone like him before. You cant say that about any other WR. Well, there was that one guy named Rice....He was pretty darn good...for a 49er..gay

K Train
11-25-2008, 05:11 PM
TO also has a ton of passes thrown his way, ive seen ward drop quite a few or just hit it up in the air to get picked off...thats a retarded stat to throw out, you know TO is one of the best WRs to ever play and just cause you dont like him you refuse to acknowledge that.

if art monk just got in after retiring in 95 and being hall eligible in 2000 how does ward get in first ballot?

if andre reed isnt even in yet, how does ward get in first ballot?

Irvin had to wait and he deserved a first ballot...just cause you didnt like doesnt mean he isnt on the great hines wards level.

Irving Fryar with 851 catches in 17 seasons ought to be in.

what about bob hayes? probably the best WR of the 70s?

if Tommy McDonald, Charlie Joiner and Steve Largent had to repeat the process in todays standards I doubt any of them would get in, you cant use those guys as evidence ward is a lock...the hall of fame voters are really hard on wrs and a few highlight blocks isnt gonna get wards in and to say first ballot is retarded coming from the guy who asked if mental retardation has swept over everyone

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 06:03 PM
Owens isn't dropping balls because he gets so many thrown to him. He drops them because he's over-rated as a clutch player. And in no way do I take him on this football team over Ward. Owens is all about Owens, and teams cant function that way. Ward understands what a team concept is, and thats one of the many reasons he's great. And in no way does Ward drop anywhere near the amount of balls as Owens. If you threw less to Owens the numbers of drops would be the same. Plus, he blocks like a girl and our running game would suffer for it. Do you forget that Ward is a big reason our running game has always been so good? Plus the hidden yards...duh

Art Monk is great and in no way do I think he should have waited along as he did to get in. That reason alone was enough to make me think the HOF is somwhat of a joke. Art Monk is one of the best route runners ever, and I cant explain the delay on him. No one can for that matter. It got to the point were a lot of people thought he should give them the finger and walk away.

Reed, I dont have as much of an issue with, and I do not think he's better than Ward. Art Monk is better than anyone playing today, and that was the issue I had with him not getting in. Ward will get another SB ring. Reed 0.

Irving....Deserve it..yes, but not over Monk. And again all these guys were not to their team what Ward has been. Not sure how you can be a Steeler fan, and not appriciate what Ward has done for this team. Or think he is not a 1st ballet HOF based on what he has done. There has never been anyone to play the position like him...ever!!! That alone will get him in. and yes, on the 1st ballet. You can not say the same for all the others. You will see 5 years after he retires. Its a lock. I'm qouting the guys on NFL network, so I'm not just saying this because I think so.

K Train
11-25-2008, 06:14 PM
ok no one said TO doesnt have some butter fingers sometimes, but he also scores a **** load of touchdowns and hes a dominate blocker for a WR.

Superbowl rings are overrated, but yet they do help...im not sure what makes you think ward will get another ring before its over, i dont know what this team has shown you to make that assumption.

the hidden yards comments are borderlining retarded, please stop. And he was a piece to the running game being so good over the years, not the biggest reason. When it was faneca, hartings and kreider blocking....they were big reasons, when it was bettis and parker running, they were big reasons. its like you forget that burress was a great blocker too and when he went to NY he continued to be one. He may never have jacked up keith rivers or bart scott or ed reed....but tis not like ward does that all the time, most of the time its just normal blocking like other WRs do, those highlights of him ****ing 5 defenders up isnt hall worthy in any way

maybe take off the steeler tinted sunglasses for a few minutes

Zachintosh66
11-25-2008, 06:35 PM
Join the club...And it sucks too! :yesnod:

Layoff this week too

--- Added 11/25/2008 at 05:35 PM ---

I think Ward will eventually get in, but def not 1st ballot

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 06:38 PM
SB rings are from from over-rated. They are about has hard to get as anything. Not to mention SB MVP. Owens scores a tone of TD because thats always the type of Off he's been apart of. That would not have been the case here. We run then pass. Ward would have had a lot more TD's somewhere else too. Yet he still has the most in Steeler history...hhhhmmm.

Hidden yardage is not restared, its a fact, and it helps. learn the value of it.
And Ward is more than just a piece of the running game. He's a huge part for the runs to the outside. dude, I get tossed during the games, but not that tossed....lol

And where is it that Plexi learned to block? not in NY, and that dude is not worthy. Sorry, he got his *** cut for a reason. And Owens is not that good of a blocker at all. He's good at getting in the way, but is that really blocking? And Ward has more High light reel blocks than most Def players. Owens is trash, and will have 0 rings to show for his hard work and big mouth because its always about him. Again, he's another cancer.

You need to look at these players as a whole and judge them. You need to look at what each team does, and how players fit in. Hines Ward is the definition of Steeler football. and is a big part of this teams success. I have asked you many question in this thread and you have yet to answer them. I guess thats ok, because it helps make my point.
I guess we can agree to disagree, but in the end I know where Ward will go.
And what makes me think this team can go to another SB? Well, simple fact that we are 8-3, and playing about as good as anyone in the AFC. and I never said it would be this year. I just said he would get another ring.

K Train
11-25-2008, 06:53 PM
SB rings are from from over-rated. They are about has hard to get as anything. Not to mention SB MVP. Owens scores a tone of TD because thats always the type of Off he's been apart of. That would not have been the case here. We run then pass. Ward would have had a lot more TD's somewhere else too. Yet he still has the most in Steeler history...hhhhmmm.

Hidden yardage is not restared, its a fact, and it helps. learn the value of it.
And Ward is more than just a piece of the running game. He's a huge part for the runs to the outside. dude, I get tossed during the games, but not that tossed....lol

And where is it that Plexi learned to block? not in NY, and that dude is not worthy. Sorry, he got his *** cut for a reason. And Owens is not that good of a blocker at all. He's good at getting in the way, but is that really blocking? And Ward has more High light reel blocks than most Def players. Owens is trash, and will have 0 rings to show for his hard work and big mouth because its always about him. Again, he's another cancer.

You need to look at these players as a whole and judge them. You need to look at what each team does, and how players fit in. Hines Ward is the definition of Steeler football. and is a big part of this teams success. I have asked you many question in this thread and you have yet to answer them. I guess thats ok, because it helps make my point.
I guess we can agree to disagree, but in the end I know where Ward will go.
And what makes me think this team can go to another SB? Well, simple fact that we are 8-3, and playing about as good as anyone in the AFC. and I never said it would be this year. I just said he would get another ring.

superbowl rings dont make you the best though, not on an individual basis. he got the MVP...wow some fans voted him superbowl MVP, deion branch must be hall bound as well. Plax didnt get cut, he didnt want to be here and he walked...we would have loved to keep him. And we run and then pass? maybe its time to move on from that thought process, thats history. I love when people bring up the definition of steeler football, what an awful ****ing cliche that has been forever. Your so quick to call owens trash and a cancer, im not saying hes not a diva....most are, but ward is one too...he has bitched and moaned everytime weve brought in another WR even though it was the best thing for the team.

your blind homerism is cute, but in the end the hall of fame is for the best of the best and not just the good

Steelersfan
11-25-2008, 06:56 PM
I`m not! My point is Swann had worse numbers than players of his era. But he helped win games, big games. Compare Swanns numbers to others in the 70`s.

I agree with you about Swann not having the best stats and I'll say the same about Ward.
IF he gets in it will be because he was a very good all around player at the position and not based on stats alone. I do think Ward has a shot but I don't think it is as clear cut as some make it out to be.

Dean Denton
11-25-2008, 07:27 PM
Why would you want to change from what has made this team great? We have had more wins than any other team in the league over the past 16 17 years. Not counting the 70's either. Why change that? If most teams could do it, they would.
Running the ball eats more clock, and keeps the others teams Off on the bench. Its smart football. And plexi didn't walk, he got shown the door. He didn't get the money he asked for. And dude, he was not worth it. I guess thats not cutting him, but not giving him what he wants is closer than him walking away. He left because we wouldn't play ball. and Dion Branch is a bust. Ward isn't. How many WR have been SB MVP? Not sure how you can compair the way Ward has bitched about bringing in WR to replace him to the circus that has been TO's career. Ward might have bitched, but never lost that top spot. It made him work harder. Sorry but Ward is no Diva. and when it comes to top WR in this league. I will take Harrison, and Ward. I would take those 2 out in Arizona too, but they have not shown the leadership skills of my top two WR in this league. sure there are guys with better numbers, but they come with a price that I wouldn't want to cheapen my team over. I was ready to give up on Holmes dumb *** too, and he's still in the crapper. but we will see.

You say the Hall is for the Best? What the Hell is Ward? No one in the History of the league has or could do what he has or they would have done it. I think leading the Steelers in all the things he's leading them in makes him the best we have ever had considering what was here before him. And dont tell me because we ran more back in the 70's is the only reason those guys didn't get the yards or TD's because we still just run the ball. Like I said, Rod Woodson is on my side, and this is one of the many victims of Hines Ward.....

K Train
11-25-2008, 09:22 PM
lol i love how you cite your sources....a former steeler player, good stuff.

Your being closed minded by saying how great harrison is, harrison just has the longevity...reggie wayne has been better than harrison the day he came into the league, harrison just had the background with manning in the first few years. And you are so quick to judge holmes as being just a dumbass thug...give me a break, your entirely to pro-ward to have this conversation with...i have nothing against him, i love him on this team but just because hes been playing good football long enough to break some team records doesnt make him the best ever...your just taking harrison and boldin and fitz over ward at this point? im taking Andre Johnson, calvin johnson, fitz, boldin, marshall, TO, moss, wayne, white, colston all over ward as being a pure WR and thats just active Wrs...not to mention how many have been better than him over the years.

you can use the heart and passion and leadership argument all you want, at the end of the day its just not gonna be enough

this really isnt going anywhere, in about 7 or 8 years when ward is eligible and your all decked out in your ward gear waiting to see whos gonna eb that years class and he doesnt even come close to making the finals make sure someone has a box of tissues ready for you cause with you mentality towards the situation i dont think your gonna be able to handle the let down

kgreen
11-25-2008, 09:29 PM
Hines is my hero. I mean can you name another reciever in the league who is barely 6' but hits like a train? No. That hit he put on Kieth Rivers was freakin' amazing. Any hit on Ed Reed is also great. He can also take a hit like a champ and GET UP SMILING. He smiles/laughs all the time! He's such a BAMF. As much as he smiles I don't think he's the kind of guy you want pissed off. Just ask the Chargers.

Stairwayto7
11-26-2008, 08:26 AM
Hines is my hero. I mean can you name another reciever in the league who is barely 6' but hits like a train? No. That hit he put on Kieth Rivers was freakin' amazing. Any hit on Ed Reed is also great. He can also take a hit like a champ and GET UP SMILING. He smiles/laughs all the time! He's such a BAMF. As much as he smiles I don't think he's the kind of guy you want pissed off. Just ask the Chargers.

Well said. I`m not sure if he`ll make the Hall of Fame. But in my biased opinion, he is the best wr we`ve ever had, and I`m usually old school!

kgreen
11-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Well said. I`m not sure if he`ll make the Hall of Fame. But in my biased opinion, he is the best wr we`ve ever had, and I`m usually old school!

Yeah he is at least the best all around player maybe we've ever had. His impact, even he's not making blacks or catching passes, is incredible. I think he's a Hall of Famer. I mean how can they not vote him in with those numbers? Swann and Stallworth were incredible. Especially Stallworth. I don't think he's gotten enough credit for what he did. He should have been the MVP of Super Bowl XIV. He was (in my opinion) the better of the two. Swann was amazing. He made the hardest catches look easy. I just love watching old game footage of those Super Bowls. Especially his catches in Super Bowl X. Just amazing. Hines belongs with those guys. I can honestly say that I believe that could have played football in the 70's with the Steelers.

This team without Hines Ward is hard to imagine because I think he is the face of this team (sorry Ben). It will be a sad day for sure when he calls it quits. However, I think that day is still a couple of years away. He is still one of the most consistent WR in the game. He has at least 2 or 3 good years left in him. Plus can you think of anyone in this league you would rather have as a slot reciever? I can't. To let guys like Santonio and hapefuly Sweed take ove over on the outside while Hines and Heath work the middle is an awesome concept to me.

Dean Denton
11-26-2008, 12:07 PM
lol i love how you cite your sources....a former steeler player, good stuff.

Your being closed minded by saying how great harrison is, harrison just has the longevity...reggie wayne has been better than harrison the day he came into the league, harrison just had the background with manning in the first few years. And you are so quick to judge holmes as being just a dumbass thug...give me a break, your entirely to pro-ward to have this conversation with...i have nothing against him, i love him on this team but just because hes been playing good football long enough to break some team records doesnt make him the best ever...your just taking harrison and boldin and fitz over ward at this point? im taking Andre Johnson, calvin johnson, fitz, boldin, marshall, TO, moss, wayne, white, colston all over ward as being a pure WR and thats just active Wrs...not to mention how many have been better than him over the years.

you can use the heart and passion and leadership argument all you want, at the end of the day its just not gonna be enough

this really isnt going anywhere, in about 7 or 8 years when ward is eligible and your all decked out in your ward gear waiting to see whos gonna eb that years class and he doesnt even come close to making the finals make sure someone has a box of tissues ready for you cause with you mentality towards the situation i dont think your gonna be able to handle the let downOk all these diva's that you seem to think are so much better then Hines, and half of them have not done crap yet in this league because they are far too new, could not survive in a Pittsburgh style Off. Again I am going to say this from the cheap seats...If you build your Off around a WR you are going to lose. That can not be the main focus of your Off. None of these guys would get the ball like they do now, and we would not change to accommadate them. Their numbers would not be all that. Colston???? Come on man..thats all they do is throw the ball in NO. Calvin Johnson? How many wins does that team have this year? Good thing they go to the WR all the time. Moss, and TO. These are my two favorites. Moss I like, but not in Pittsburgh, and not with Cowher. He would have never gotten the ball enough for his talent to be showcased. Same with TO. He drops the ball far to much for him to be of any use to us. If we only throw to him 5 times, he'll drop it 2 or 3 times. I cant say anything bad about Moss other than he is a big time diva,and would asked to be traded if he were in Pittsburgh. This team would not change because of a player like that. Moss is HOF bound, but with the coaching we have had, and the style of play we have always done, I take Ward. He fits the mold of the Off better.

You seem to fail to look at what is asked of Ward, and how he plays within the system. You think all those other guys are better because you say they are pure WR. Well I say Ward is better because he's a pure Football player, and is more capable of adjusting to to a system. As where those other player need to be catered too for them to be successful. I know I do not stand alone in my opinion of Ward, and many people outside of Steeler nation feel as I do. The guy is far from my favorite player, but I think he's a hybrid WR, and will be molded in years to come.

I know Ward is going into the HOF. There is no doubt. I might have been blowing him a little bit by saying 1st ballet, but I would not be shocked if he did. He plays WR different then anyone before him. I am not saying better, I'm saying different. but it works, and has worked for this team.

K Train
11-26-2008, 12:18 PM
i dont get why you have this certain mold of our offense predetermined in your little mind and i dont know why you think its so hard for a WR to play in. Not only are we a pass happy offense now that you still insist we run first, if we had a randy moss back when we ran he would still have a **** load of TDs because we would play to his strengths and him off the play action would be nasty...i hate that you make me post like i hate ward, cause i dont at all, but damn come down to earth about the whole topic a little bit

btw using wins to judge a WR is retarded, johnson is having an amazing year with **** throwing him the ball...next year he'll have 15 TDs and 1500 yards

ejsteeler
11-26-2008, 12:35 PM
I just think it's funny that you can't disagree with someone, K Train, without attacking them and calling them names. Get over yourself. :yesnod:

Dean Denton
11-26-2008, 12:46 PM
i dont get why you have this certain mold of our offense predetermined in your little mind and i dont know why you think its so hard for a WR to play in. Not only are we a pass happy offense now that you still insist we run first, if we had a randy moss back when we ran he would still have a shiat load of TDs because we would play to his strengths and him off the play action would be nasty...i hate that you make me post like i hate ward, cause i dont at all, but damn come down to earth about the whole topic a little bit

btw using wins to judge a WR is retarded, johnson is having an amazing year with shiat throwing him the ball...next year he'll have 15 TDs and 1500 yards You are wrong. We would not play to the strengh of Moss in his prime. He would have been asked to play to what the team was doing. There is no player greater than the team. and Cowher would not have change is ways for one guy. I told you yesterday we didn't have a QB that could get the ball deep until 2004. I have a mold for our Off because it never changed except in 2003, and that was a bust. Moss would have been a waste. Except in the red zone. And I bring up Johnson because they spend so much time trying to get him the ball that they dont use the rest of the team, and thats one of the reason they cant win. And only now are we passing more, but again this is the first time in years that this Off of Pitt has no Identity.

What team builds itself around any one player? And if they did, the WR would be behind the QB and HB. And if the build it around the WR....well look at the Lions. Hey, but the guy will have HOF numbers right? If you cant see how the Steelers have played ball through out the years then there isn't much I can tell you. You see it the way you want to. If you think any coach we have had over the last 36 years would change the way they run the Off because we have a player like Moss or TO, then you dont know much about Steeler Football. There is a system in place in Pittsburgh, from the draft to the Identity of the team that the Rooneys have always wanted, and players like Moss , and TO do not fit in. How can you not tell from watching games for the last 30 years that each team is a carbon copy from the year before? Run hard, stop the run.
Now that I think about it, is that TO on your avitar with Hampton bring up the rear....lol

K Train
11-26-2008, 12:49 PM
when you have one of the best WRs to ever play the game you find ways to get them the ball, when you have hines ward you tell him to run underneath routes and runblock. its a personnel thing, not a scheme thing

Dean Denton
11-26-2008, 12:59 PM
when you have one of the best WRs to ever play the game you find ways to get them the ball, when you have hines ward you tell him to run underneath routes and runblock. its a personnel thing, not a scheme thing Again, learn the concept of Steeler football.

K Train
11-26-2008, 01:04 PM
right right, smashmouth, hardcore, grind em out, play in the mud...give me a break

JensK
11-26-2008, 01:45 PM
I don't believe in the whole "scheme" thing. You play the weapons you have. If you have a killer WR like Moss, well you get him the ball. If you have Adrian Peterson, you run him all the time. Why? because those guys will make plays for you. It would be stupid to think, that you would have the best weapon in the league, but becaues he is not part of the scheme, he won't get the ball as much. No coach would do that... You build your scheme from what weapons you have. If you have a franchise WR, then you build it around him. If you have a franchise RB, then you built it around him.

Hines Ward is a great blocker, and a good reciever, but thats it. He has been loyal, indeed, and i love Hines and hes attitude, but i just don't think he is a HOF member right now.


Also: Dean - come on man.. Steeler football? With a QB like Big Ben you just won't run the ball like we did when we played everyones so-called "Steelers football". Like i said, its about building a team aorund the players you have.

steelcitysfinestXL
11-26-2008, 02:51 PM
when you have one of the best WRs to ever play the game you find ways to get them the ball, when you have hines ward you tell him to run underneath routes and runblock. its a personnel thing, not a scheme thing

Hines would be a wasted talent in a verticle offense. Just as useless as Randy Moss would be running short crossing routes. K for the most part is right.... take Holmes for example: He is most useful with the ball in his hands, yet people insist he is this great deep threat. Nate is a better downfield WR than Tone, but Tone can take a 6 yard slant the distance anytime! Nate and Ward cannot (although Ward is very tough after the catch too, he lacks top-end speed).

Thats why we throw #10 the quick slants and hot reads, #86 looms around the first down mark at all times and #85 is usually getting verticle. When we are playing good offense, its when we play to our guys strengths rather than force a guy like Nate to run across the middle and send Ward deep... that would be forcing guys to fall into the scheme. Not saying Arians doesnt do that, but its usually when we start to faulter as an offense.

We are playing the best ball when Ben lets it fly as SOON as his back foot plants ie: the last 2 weeks ie: Ward 2 solid games running underneath patterns. That means ben is getting rid of the ball sooner to guys running shorter routes (ward and Holmes). Soon that will lead to less pressure and Nate getting open on double moves and Ben airing it out. Thats playing to our personel's strengths!!!

Dean Denton
11-26-2008, 04:50 PM
I don't believe in the whole "scheme" thing. You play the weapons you have. If you have a killer WR like Moss, well you get him the ball. If you have Adrian Peterson, you run him all the time. Why? because those guys will make plays for you. It would be stupid to think, that you would have the best weapon in the league, but becaues he is not part of the scheme, he won't get the ball as much. No coach would do that... You build your scheme from what weapons you have. If you have a franchise WR, then you build it around him. If you have a franchise RB, then you built it around him.

Hines Ward is a great blocker, and a good reciever, but thats it. He has been loyal, indeed, and i love Hines and hes attitude, but i just don't think he is a HOF member right now.


Also: Dean - come on man.. Steeler football? With a QB like Big Ben you just won't run the ball like we did when we played everyones so-called "Steelers football". Like i said, its about building a team aorund the players you have. Ok, look. You do not build your Off around 1 guy just because he is one of the best in the league. Because If and when he gets hurt, then your screwed. You put him into the system your coach has. Kinda of like what was done with Ben, and what is being done now. If you have a Moss, then you make plays to get him the ball, but you are not going to change the whole of your Off because of one guy. Thats stupid coaching if your talking about a WR. Its different with a HB. Sure you just feed him the rock, and if he goes down the next guy will take over. But if that guy is Adrian Peterson, and all you have is Kevin Faulk, well, your screwed. Its a lot different if its the WR. You lose Moss, who on your roster can come close to the deep threat-jump ball that moss can do? I am telling you if you build your Off around a WR you are going to lose. When you talk about skill positions, the QB and the HB are your focus. thats where you start. Championships are not won on QB-WR combinations or Marino would have had many of rings.

And what about Ben? He is still playing within the system that his coach has in place. This is not some special design for him. If it is, then it sucks. Our best Off football over the last few years was under Cowher. We had some 6 or 7 QB under Cowher, none of them did all that great until Ben got there, and guess what it was the same system all the other losers were using. The only difference was that it got simplified for a rookie QB and then he just was that much better. but I can tell you Cowher did not change from how he coached because of Ben.

Thats how you coach a team. You make it work with your system. Maybe if Mora wasn't trying to build a system around Vick they could have gone somewhere. The tool shed in New England didn't change his Off for Moss, he added him to it.

--- Added 11/26/2008 at 03:50 PM ---


Hines would be a wasted talent in a verticle offense. Just as useless as Randy Moss would be running short crossing routes. K for the most part is right.... take Holmes for example: He is most useful with the ball in his hands, yet people insist he is this great deep threat. Nate is a better downfield WR than Tone, but Tone can take a 6 yard slant the distance anytime! Nate and Ward cannot (although Ward is very tough after the catch too, he lacks top-end speed).

Thats why we throw #10 the quick slants and hot reads, #86 looms around the first down mark at all times and #85 is usually getting verticle. When we are playing good offense, its when we play to our guys strengths rather than force a guy like Nate to run across the middle and send Ward deep... that would be forcing guys to fall into the scheme. Not saying Arians doesnt do that, but its usually when we start to faulter as an offense.

We are playing the best ball when Ben lets it fly as SOON as his back foot plants ie: the last 2 weeks ie: Ward 2 solid games running underneath patterns. That means ben is getting rid of the ball sooner to guys running shorter routes (ward and Holmes). Soon that will lead to less pressure and Nate getting open on double moves and Ben airing it out. Thats playing to our personel's strengths!!! Yeah I cant argue with that, but this was mostly about Ward getting into the HOF. And based on his accomplishments I dont know how anyone can say he doesn't deserve to go. He leads one of the best frachines in all of sports at WR, and has changed the way the position is played. Who gives a monkey crap if he wouldn't be a good in a vertical passing game? It should be about what you do and have done, and Ward has done what was expected of him, and then some. Its not like he is slow, and couldn't play in another system. The dude gets open. He helped bring a SB ring to the city of Pittsburgh. How many Rings have Moss and TO help bring to their teams or citys? I understand that SB dont make you the best at any one position, but its a team concept, and all the players played within a system to achieve a common goal, and thats a SB. SB are not won because one team has the best WR in the league on their team. And getting into the HOF, they will look at what players did to help achieve that ultimate goal. However, even if Moss doesn't win a SB, he still gets in, but I dont know about TO.
Cowher and Noll ran an Off that was pretty similar as far as run the ball, and play stiff Def. So also for anyone to say that, "this whole thing about the image of Steeler football", is false from my point of view, I think might be watching a different team. this is the style of football I have watched since I was 7 years old. amd there have been no changes until now. Ok, the last 2 seasons have not been so much about the run, as it is the pass, but we also suck on Off, and need to rethink our play calling. We lost out mind once we got rid of our FB. Tomlin did not change the Def because we had the 3-4 personel in place. "I'm qouting him from my Steeler Digest." So why did he let the Off change so much? What weapons of mass destruction did we acquire that made anyone think we could go to more of a pass Off? Or it could be the fact that Mendenhal went down and we have been forced to go that route. Either way. Ward is money. Has always been huge for us,and has always made the changes to fit into good or crappy play calling. I look at some of the other Divas around the league, and question if they have what it takes to be able to make the same changes, and except some of the things that Ward has had to deal with.

The HOF is for the best. No doubt about it. But then by that, only Jerry Rice should be in right? Because he is the best. All time, no one can argue different. But the HOF is also set up for more than one person per position, and because of that you cant not tell me based on everything Ward has already done, that he too does not deserve to be in there. He is the closest thing to a throw back player that use to play both sides of the ball back in the 5's0 and 60's that we have seen, unless any of us were around back then. He is worthy, and he will go. WR dont get in just because they were the best at vertical passing Off.

JensK
11-27-2008, 01:06 AM
Ok, look. You do not build your Off around 1 guy just because he is one of the best in the league. Because If and when he gets hurt, then your screwed. You put him into the system your coach has. Kinda of like what was done with Ben, and what is being done now. If you have a Moss, then you make plays to get him the ball, but you are not going to change the whole of your Off because of one guy. Thats stupid coaching if your talking about a WR. Its different with a HB. Sure you just feed him the rock, and if he goes down the next guy will take over. But if that guy is Adrian Peterson, and all you have is Kevin Faulk, well, your screwed. Its a lot different if its the WR. You lose Moss, who on your roster can come close to the deep threat-jump ball that moss can do? I am telling you if you build your Off around a WR you are going to lose. When you talk about skill positions, the QB and the HB are your focus. thats where you start. Championships are not won on QB-WR combinations or Marino would have had many of rings.

And what about Ben? He is still playing within the system that his coach has in place. This is not some special design for him. If it is, then it sucks. Our best Off football over the last few years was under Cowher. We had some 6 or 7 QB under Cowher, none of them did all that great until Ben got there, and guess what it was the same system all the other losers were using. The only difference was that it got simplified for a rookie QB and then he just was that much better. but I can tell you Cowher did not change from how he coached because of Ben.

Thats how you coach a team. You make it work with your system. Maybe if Mora wasn't trying to build a system around Vick they could have gone somewhere. The tool shed in New England didn't change his Off for Moss, he added him to it.




As for Ben, i know that, and it what everyone is screaming about atm. We havnt used Ben right this season, which has caused him to get sacked and get hurt.

Patriots did not have to change a thing when Moss got there. He was already the perfekt fit into a system totally build on throwing the ball.

Stairwayto7
11-27-2008, 06:56 AM
Wow where do you go after all those comments. Both of you have great points. With the Steelers offense, I don`t think they have the one great weapon that you build around. We do have good running backs, but not one stud. Ben is a really great QB, but has not shown the consistency that are needed to seperate a good QB from a great QB. We are still a better team when we run more than pass. Although my least favorite stat is " when a team wins more games when their running backs get more then 25 carries" I hear the announcers say this all the time. To me if your back gets 25+ , your probably winning already and its now ball control mode. If your back gets less than 15, you`ve probably been playing catch up all day.

Hines Hall of Fame or no Hall of Fame? I say, in my biased opinion, that he has to be more than stats. Stats alone do not make a great player. Offense linemen make the hall with no stats, they get picked for knocking people on thier a$$e$, Hines does this. I beleive there was a standard, prior to Hines, that made a wr well rounded. I think Hines has changed the positition. Although in my opinion Jerry Rice was a good blocker, he would get out front and get in defenders way. Hines goes through defender. Guys like Jerry Rice were`nt known for taking the licks that Hines does every game. There aren`t stats for a guy like Hines.