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NCSteeler
09-24-2008, 10:48 AM
I noticed a lot of people are not very upset that Willie will be out. I also noticed that when I go to games Willies jersey is not very popular. all of this seems strange to me. He has been a great back for us and we definitely went downhill without him last year. I was just wondering why you all thought Willie doesn't get much love from us Steelers fans.

LatrobePA
09-24-2008, 11:01 AM
Against the Ravens, he's worthless, so let him heal. Not saying he's a scrub, they have his number...

Brady Quinn
09-24-2008, 11:18 AM
I think he is so not appreciated. He is the one that opens up your passing game.

BR7
09-24-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm not a real big FWP fan. Granted he's a talented back, but I get tired of seeing him fall down 40% of the time before he hits the LOS. Also, the icing on the cake was his long run against Houston (I think?), where he decided to give up and not take on a defender and just duck out of bounds. That wasn't the first time its happened either. To me that is unacceptable.

He was a good compliment to Jerome.. two different styles. If Mendy can hang on to the ball, FWP might compliment him, lol.

steelersgal86
09-24-2008, 11:31 AM
I like Willie...and think he has done a great job...but I would like to see what mendenhall can do :2cents: and at the bar we went to sunday to watch the game...I saw a few #39 jerseys...including Ryan's....

AZ_Steeler
09-24-2008, 11:39 AM
I like him, but I think he could be replaced in the blink of an eye. He needs a hole big enough for a Mack truck and he doesn't put up much of a fight after that initial hit. :dunno:

HUNT4SEVEN
09-24-2008, 11:43 AM
Willie is fast that's it, if he had some vision he would b dangerous, that's my :2cents:

Steelerlyn
09-24-2008, 11:45 AM
I'm not a real big FWP fan. Granted he's a talented back, but I get tired of seeing him fall down 40% of the time before he hits the LOS. Also, the icing on the cake was his long run against Houston (I think?), where he decided to give up and not take on a defender and just duck out of bounds. That wasn't the first time its happened either. To me that is unacceptable.

He was a good compliment to Jerome.. two different styles. If Mendy can hang on to the ball, FWP might compliment him, lol.

I completely agree with this post and I would add that most people are not buying jerseys of any kind because of the economy.

Stairwayto7
09-24-2008, 11:47 AM
I like FWP, but I am looking forward to seeing the rookie give it a go this week. If he gets the holes that Willie gets, then he should do some damage.

TEEMONT
09-24-2008, 01:15 PM
Willie is a lot better then people give him credit for. People want a back who was a big college back, and they hate on Willie for that reason. Mendenhall has the pedigree and he can't hold the ball, yet people still think Willie is here to compliment him.

Willie is a pro-bowl back, and not by mistake. Mendenhall is here for him, if the douche can ever get onto the field when Willie isn't hurt.

Oh, and despite the economy, which there is nothing wrong with, I managed to buy a jersey.

jpele
09-24-2008, 02:25 PM
Could you imagine FWP with a line in front of him? Willie usually falls before getting to the LOS because his blockers are being pushed back into him.

Franco ran out of bounds a lot,I had no problem with that.

Prosdo
09-24-2008, 04:37 PM
I like Willie and I think he is very talented. But I believe he is the type of back who needs to share time with a power running back. Get the big guy to get the defense tired and then let Willie break one.

TEEMONT
09-24-2008, 04:57 PM
"power" running backs are the most overrated types of backs in the league. 2 years ago everyone was on Larry Johnsons dick, he was thi sbig badass RB, but now he has no line, and is on no ones radar screen.

Willie has proven fo rthe last few years that he can be the one and only man in the backfield.

Stairwayto7
09-24-2008, 05:05 PM
I completely agree with this post and I would add that most people are not buying jerseys of any kind because of the economy.

I see more Troy and Ben jerseys then FWP, but when a teams a a number of probowlers you cant buy them all. For the record, I do`nt buy jersey, I only want my family name on my back

NCSteeler
09-24-2008, 06:13 PM
I don't think we can fault him for running out of bounds when your up by 25 points. I think he does a good job, but does need someone good to split carries with, but I suppose that is the way of the league now for all backs.

It is true that there are so many good players and not enough money to buy all their jerseys. I know I have 3-4 more I would love to have , but they have to wait.

I too am anxious to see what Mendenhall can do, but wish it didn't have to happen this way. I know Willie rarely does well agaisnt the Ravens, but I would rather Mendehall was getting his carries in clean up duty or whiel Willie sits resting at season's end

BlitzburghRockCity
09-24-2008, 06:31 PM
Actually a power type of back does not normally do well against a team like the Ratbirds. Look at Bettis' stats over the years against Baltimore. They aren't bad stats but they aren't great either. Smaller backs tend to have more success against teams that play defense like Baltimore does. Now that may have changed since Billick left, we'll have to wait and see.

I like Parker, the dude does a great job. It's a learning process for him, remember he had almost zero experience coming out of college so by the time he came to us and got any significant playing was really when he started learning. Most back have 3-4 years experience in college before they get to the NFL level and then they still have things to learn. Willie is just now beginning to hit his NFL stride and I expect great things from him.

He has ways he can improve, his vision ( seeing the field) mainly but he's getting better. Having a guy like Mendenhall to compliment him will only help even more.

BLEIER20
09-24-2008, 07:52 PM
You all are failing to see this picture in Willie. He was the LEAGUE LEADING RUSHER with 3 games still to play last season and still almost won the rushing title! He had a bad game and now is probable this week, so that will be two games he will have barely any yards. But mark my words, he'll be right back up there when he's healthy! AGAIN!

Clevelandsux
09-24-2008, 08:43 PM
I like Willie it is huge that he is out. But, he is not a guy that is gonna get the tough yards like a Bettis. The way Pittsburgh tries to use him, I'm not surprised he's out. He's fast, but not a bruiser. That's what we hope we get from Mendenhall.

Stairwayto7
09-25-2008, 06:35 AM
Could you imagine FWP with a line in front of him? Willie usually falls before getting to the LOS because his blockers are being pushed back into him.

Franco ran out of bounds a lot,I had no problem with that.

I feel like our line does run lock well, just pass blocking they are struggling. Willie is always a threat to break one, if he gets through the front seven

ItAintEasyBeingPeazy
09-25-2008, 05:34 PM
FWP is fine...I think everyone just wants to see Mendy in action, seems like alot of the Rb's that came out this year are doing pretty well. Slaton looked good for Houston and Mcfadden is starting to play pretty well.It's time to see what this 1st rounder is made of.

As far as the jersey thing..it's not the money that's the problem..it's buying a jersey and a year later the guy is traded or gone.I have a whole closet full of Steeler Jerseys...K.Greene,Woodson,Randle-El,Buress,K.Stewart,and of course J.Porter. I guess it's safe to buy a Big Ben Jersey..i'm sure he'll be around a season or two.:greengrin:

Dean Denton
09-25-2008, 06:03 PM
I like Willie. Dude is bad ***. He's just is easy to tackle. He's little. However, he does have one of the best stiff arms in the league. Jiggleballs is here to back up Willie, thats it. If Willie was ok to go, he would be starting this Monday against the Ravens. but yeah, his record against the Ravens isn't that good. So I dont see where this rookie is going to do worse, unless he gets that ball stripped, ripped or just busted out of his hands. Who knows, maybe he can help block...lord knows we need it..

I dont but Jersey's because everyone gets traded too fast, and then I'm out $80.00 to a gizillian bucks... My Jersey's say Steelers or I will get me an old school jersey with someone that retired a Steeler. I want a Lambert or Blier..thats what I'm trying to get my wife to let me get.

SteelerDan43
09-25-2008, 06:37 PM
Here is the part about Willie that makes him easily replaceable, go pick up a copy of the football prospectus and read up on success rate... How often does the player have a successful play? (defined as 45% of required yards on 1st down, 60% on second, and first downs on 3rd and 4th) Willie's success rate was a paltry 42% last season... lets just say thats bad, you want a high success rate obviously, the guys at football outsiders (same guys who write the football prospectus) have proven with statistics that its more beneficial to have a consistent pounder versus a 1 out of 4 home run hitter... just for comparison some other success rates from around the league last year... Jamal Lewis 45%, Lawrence Maroney 58%, Marion Barber 49%, Ryan Grant 47%, Brandon Jacobs 57%, Adrian Peterson 45%. Also Parker's Defense adjusted value over average was a career worst -10.8%! Good for 39th in the league

Dean Denton
09-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Here is the part about Willie that makes him easily replaceable, go pick up a copy of the football prospectus and read up on success rate... How often does the player have a successful play? (defined as 45% of required yards on 1st down, 60% on second, and first downs on 3rd and 4th) Willie's success rate was a paltry 42% last season... lets just say thats bad, you want a high success rate obviously, the guys at football outsiders (same guys who write the football prospectus) have proven with statistics that its more beneficial to have a consistent pounder versus a 1 out of 4 home run hitter... just for comparison some other success rates from around the league last year... Jamal Lewis 45%, Lawrence Maroney 58%, Marion Barber 49%, Ryan Grant 47%, Brandon Jacobs 57%, Adrian Peterson 45%. Also Parker's Defense adjusted value over average was a career worst -10.8%! Good for 39th in the league
Now take that average and factor in that all those other backs that you mentioned that have O-lines 100 times better than ours, and you will find that Willie "the Hitman" Parker is pretty darn good. Not one of those backs would be worth the turf that they run on if they were in Pittsburgh. Not right now anyways. Not with this dead beat O-line. We gave Willie the ball alot last year. Alot more than most of the other back in the league. If you put Willie in Dallas or New England, maybe even Minnesota he would lead the league in TD's and yards. I would bet my life on it. We all saw what happened when we face a good team last week. Same thing last year. Its not that we faded late in the year. Its because we have all these fancy things on our car, and not an engine to run it. No team wins without a good O-line. You guys Remember the 91 Redskins? That QB was not good, but look what he could do with time to throw the ball. Go hogs...lol

SteelerDan43
09-25-2008, 07:24 PM
No doubt its still a team game but they have eliminated as many variables as possible in that stat, including some variables with o-line... but also look at his previous numbers, 2005 - 48% (good), 2006 - 45% -(ehh, ok) he is declining... you can even see his yrds/run, 05 4.7, 06 4.4, 07 4.1... he has only one above average year, 05 DVOA -1.5%, 06 3.3%, 07 -10.8%! Also, Earnest friggin Graham had a higher success rate than Parker!

Dean Denton
09-25-2008, 07:46 PM
Again the numbers are just that...numbers. Put anyone of those backs in Pitt, and they will get broke. Its just like if you switched Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders. Emmitt would have never been, and Sanders would hold every rushing title known to man. Barry is the only back in the history of the sport that didn't need a good o-line for yards. but even he had more -yards then positive because he was in Detroit. Willie is just fine. He's not the issue in the Steel city. He's making his own yards because he wont get any help from the fab 5 in front of him.

Dont get me wrong, I understand what your saying about the numbers, but there only number,and you cant facture in everything. Thats why they play the game. Willie would shine in Dallas or New England. I'm really not all that sold on Maroney or whatever his name is. I'll take willie. If it was based on numbers they would skip the season, and let Dallas and New England have their Superbowl

SteelerDan43
09-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Well you can guess and say oh he would be better with this than that but as an engineer I come from the school of speak with data, and this season so far Willie's success rate is 38%, now if you have a low success rate and a high DVOA your at least hitting the home runs. Well Willie's DVOA this year is 3.4% so he has done neither. Also I did misspeak success rate is not adjusted for defenses. The average last season was 45.4 percent

Dean Denton
09-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Again your numbers cant factor in how crappy out o-line is after three games and how good Dallas is. What does your computer say about having Bo Jackson here in his prime this season? Or maybe is we swapped Willie for Adrian Peterson. Because I dont see this being any different.

SteelerDan43
09-25-2008, 08:20 PM
No they don't but guessing is better? This is as close as we can get without just speculation which is hogwash... Im giving you bonafide reasons Willie is fairly replaceable, note I did not say he was no good... A good combination of DVOA and Suc is a good RB, but to give you an idea in his limited action, Davenport's Suc was 52%... Same line, and we all know he was better at getting yards more often than getting stuffed. There is you apples to apples comparison

Dean Denton
09-25-2008, 08:29 PM
Your just too friggin smart for me man. Its too confusing...lol Lets me say this... those numbers are busted. That cant possibly factor in everything. Because if they did it would show you Najah wasn't all that good except against the Rams, where Willie would have had 250 yards in that game. If you wouldn't mind emailing me your fancy stats at tcourse@hotmail.com so I can look at them and go over it with my team of monkeys. Thanks...

SteelerDan43
09-25-2008, 08:41 PM
Davenport is not as good as Parker, last season was an aberration in his career, he went from a 3.7 yards/rush in 06 to 4.7 in 07 and his DVOA went up from -34.5% (REALLY bad) to 15.1% pretty darn good. This is also reflected in his Suc rate improving from 38% to 52%. His 3 year average is 44.3% (note not really a true average as his carries varied from 30 to 60 and then 107 last year) and he did run for 499 yards in only in only 107 carries. But the point of my argument was that in a given situation that Davenport last year was more likely to gain some than Parker, ie he was consistent at getting at least some yards even if he didn't hit the home run. All the stats and explanations you will ever need can be found here... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/

BlitzburghNation
09-26-2008, 12:22 AM
:popcorn:

ItAintEasyBeingPeazy
09-26-2008, 12:30 AM
:popcorn:

lol..it's like listening to two accountants talk football.

BlitzburghNation
09-26-2008, 12:35 AM
lol..it's like listening to two accountants talk football.

:lol::lol::lol: Good-One :clap: Have a :beer1: and some :popcorn2:

$teeler$guy
09-26-2008, 09:41 AM
Yea our running game has never been sucessfull against the ravens just bescause of how intelligent ray lewis is you guys have to give him some respect.i dislike the rats but like ray ray.

steelcitysfinestXL
09-26-2008, 10:57 AM
Parker gets no love for alot of reasons:

1. He replaced a fan fovorite, maybe a 1st ballot HOF'er in Bettis
2. He's not a prototypical steeler back ala bettis, Bam Morris and other big backs
3. His flaws are VERY noticable to even the "average Joe" (vision, lack of lateral movement and moves)
4. He made his name on LONG runs and hasnt had one since '06

Parker is an easy target for alot of fans cause, really he doesnt fit the "Pittsburgh mold" ala Plexico Burress. He is a drastic change from what long time fans are used to. Yeah it was great having Bettis and the likes to control the game/clock/T.O.P, but you have to considerthe QB's we had. Kordell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomzack(sp.)... could we really lean on any of those guys, NO!

With Ben being a near elite level NFL qb, we have the luxory of utilizing a "homerun" style back. Our problem is how Arians uses his personel. Look at the success of teams with rookie backs are having this year working a rookie/vet tandem:

1. Carolina (2-1) - De'Angelo Williams- 39 car. for 144 yds
Jonathan Stewart- 31 car. for 145 yds

2. Tennessee (3-0) - Chris Johnson- 50 car. for 276 yds
- LenDale White- 49car. for 148 yds

3. Pittsburgh (2-1) - Rashard Mendenhall- 10 car. for 28 yds.
- Willie Parker- 66 cars. for 263 yds

Teams having success running the ball are sharing the load with rookies at a 50/50 ratio. Felix Jones only has 18 carries but he also has average 8ypc on his few attempts. Proof is in the pudding, so far Mendenhall isnt getting enough carries... and when he is he isnt doing anything speacial with them. When we can get to maye 30/70 (mende/FWP) or better, then maybe we will get better production in the run game! So far, I gots luv for parker... im questioning Mende and Arians (once again)

$teeler$guy
09-26-2008, 11:05 AM
Parker gets no love for alot of reasons:

1. He replaced a fan fovorite, maybe a 1st ballot HOF'er in Bettis
2. He's not a prototypical steeler back ala bettis, Bam Morris and other big backs
3. His flaws are VERY noticable to even the "average Joe" (vision, lack of lateral movement and moves)
4. He made his name on LONG runs and hasnt had one since '06

Parker is an easy target for alot of fans cause, really he doesnt fit the "Pittsburgh mold" ala Plexico Burress. He is a drastic change from what long time fans are used to. Yeah it was great having Bettis and the likes to control the game/clock/T.O.P, but you have to considerthe QB's we had. Kordell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomzack(sp.)... could we really lean on any of those guys, NO!

With Ben being a near elite level NFL qb, we have the luxory of utilizing a "homerun" style back. Our problem is how Arians uses his personel. Look at the success of teams with rookie backs are having this year working a rookie/vet tandem:

1. Carolina (2-1) - De'Angelo Williams- 39 car. for 144 yds
Jonathan Stewart- 31 car. for 145 yds

2. Tennessee (3-0) - Chris Johnson- 50 car. for 276 yds
- LenDale White- 49car. for 148 yds

3. Pittsburgh (2-1) - Rashard Mendenhall- 10 car. for 28 yds.
- Willie Parker- 66 cars. for 263 yds

Teams having success running the ball are sharing the load with rookies at a 50/50 ratio. Felix Jones only has 18 carries but he also has average 8ypc on his few attempts. Proof is in the pudding, so far Mendenhall isnt getting enough carries... and when he is he isnt doing anything speacial with them. When we can get to maye 30/70 (mende/FWP) or better, then maybe we will get better production in the run game! So far, I gots luv for parker... im questioning Mende and Arians (once again)

Very nice facts..Hopefully parker will start to bring his A game i think he will but he needs good holes to run threw where bettis would just make his own holes

steelcitysfinestXL
09-26-2008, 11:15 AM
really parker just needs a crease and he needs to be able to take his first few steps foward and unevaded. He struggles when he is forced to move laterally or stop in the backfield.(most backs do) Everyone things he needs this garage sized hole when he has proven of late that he can get a minimun 4 yds when he has atleast a foward push by his oline, let alone any kind of a hole!