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View Full Version : Steelers O-Line Set Up For Failure?



Black@Gold Forever32
09-22-2008, 08:51 PM
The more I think of it Bruce Arian's play calling and game planning sets up the OL and whole entire offense to fail at times....The OL isn't great but it would be nice if the play would be sent in faster...How many times did we see Ben take the entire play clock down to 1 second before hiking the ball?...

Plus it would be nice for Ben to freaking audible out of play one time....But with Ben taking the play clock down to 1 he doesn't have time to audible....So I don't know if there is some miss communication between Ben and Arians getting the play in quick?....Or I don't know if all the pre-snap motion this offense does is a reason why Ben doesn't have the time audible out of a play....I also don't know if Ben is to damn stubborn to audible....But changing out of play that is doomed to fail by the blitz could have helped yesterday....

Another point getting the play in quicker and snapping the ball quick would prevent the defense from just settling in and teeing off...Plus the OL wouldn't be in their stance as long in a noisy environment leading to false starting penalties.....

The game plan yesterday seemed to be looking for the deep ball to much so again shorter routes would have helped.......Its time to really design plays for Heath Miller...He could be such a weapon and could be used to counter the blitz.....It would also be nice to see a RB chip a blitzing player before releasing into the flat.......The dump offs to the flat could have worked to against the blitz....Thought that was a reason why Mewelde Moore was signed?....

Finally the bunch formation should be scrapped....Its totally useless when a defense is blitzing as much as the Eagles did yesterday.....I'm not trying to stick up for the OL but again I just think Bruce Arians with his game planning and play calling is setting them up for failure......But what do I know...I'm just a fan.....:lol:

BlitzburghRockCity
09-22-2008, 09:04 PM
Arians goes into the game thinking that we need to stretch the defense and loosen up that pass rush. It's good in theory if you complete the passes and if your line can give you enough time to throw. Obviously that plan was shot to hell and what should have happened was an immediate switch to a dink and hunk passing game. 5-10 short passing plays that involves quick drops and allows Ben to find the open guy quick and get the ball out. You also stay in the shotgun while using that short passing game.

The other option would have been to go to the no huddle. That's an automatic cure for an ailing offense and a blitzing defense. You can't send the house and blitz every play when you don't have time to substitute and set up every play. You wear out the defense and give your offense some momentum.

Im seriously it's not that hard is it? I know that I don't know everything but it was so painfully obvious that our OL was not up to the challenge that even a fan who's never seen a real NFL playbook can tell that much right!

When your offense is struggling like ours is you need to pick up the pace, get the plays in quicker, snap the ball quicker, and let your guys gain some confidence. What we saw on Sunday was a complete meltdown from the OL to Arians. Until we prove we can stop the blitz or adjust our play calling to compensate our OL is being set up for failure because they are average at best right now.

TampaSteelGirl
09-22-2008, 09:34 PM
Well that does make alot of sense what you are saying..One thing they were saying on NFL Sirius radio is that Ben holds onto the ball too long. He needs to get rid of it a little faster. I think the fast short pass to Miller or Speath would be beneficial if we see that the line is having a hard time protecting Ben. Seems Arians is always wanting that long spectacular pass and catch. Every team is not the same and it doesn't always work. If Ben can't get free and have enough time to wait for the receiver to get down the field then he needs to have someone available for the short efficient pass. Plan A....plan B. but it does make sense what you are saying...

yinzer
09-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Well that does make alot of sense what you are saying..One thing they were saying on NFL Sirius radio is that Ben holds onto the ball too long. He needs to get rid of it a little faster. I think the fast short pass to Miller or Speath would be beneficial if we see that the line is having a hard time protecting Ben. Seems Arians is always wanting that long spectacular pass and catch. Every team is not the same and it doesn't always work. If Ben can't get free and have enough time to wait for the receiver to get down the field then he needs to have someone available for the short efficient pass. Plan A....plan B. but it does make sense what you are saying...

ben holding onto the ball long is probably the cause of sacks about 15% of the time. i wonder if those idiots on sirius actually watched the game. ben had absolutely no time AT ALL in the pocket. 4-5 guys were coming in UNTOUCHED. i watched the game again today and i would have to say that one, just one, sack was ben's fault. the loss to philly was COMPLETELY the coaches fault.

BlitzburghRockCity
09-22-2008, 11:14 PM
Ben definitely needs to work on getting the ball out sooner; but as we've talked about before it's just part of his game.he's a guy who will keep plays alive and will make a lot of big throws under prssure..it's a catch 22.

BTW, I'm watching the Jets/Chargers game tonight..the Chargers are blitzing Favre and low and behold what does he do might you ask? Well, they go to quick drops, short passes, and just busted a 30 yd gain and Brett is standing straight up. Think Arians could learn something from watching this game?

yinzer
09-22-2008, 11:19 PM
Ben definitely needs to work on getting the ball out sooner; but as we've talked about before it's just part of his game.he's a guy who will keep plays alive and will make a lot of big throws under prssure..it's a catch 22.

BTW, I'm watching the Jets/Chargers game tonight..the Chargers are blitzing Favre and low and behold what does he do might you ask? Well, they go to quick drops, short passes, and just busted a 30 yd gain and Brett is standing straight up. Think Arians could learn something from watching this game?

i'm watching too. favre is getting rid of the ball with the quickness. hope arians is taking pages and pages of notes.

Dean Denton
09-22-2008, 11:25 PM
I really dont see how Ben could have gotten that ball out any faster. He was under heavy fire. He looked like Neo from the Matrix back there dodging bullets. I really had no Idea our O-line was that bad. 6 sacks in 1 quarter is about as bad as it gets. Thats what you expect from the back ups, not the starters. If changes aren't made this week, then it will be Bens last game this year because the Ravens are just as nasty, if not worse than the Eagles, and they hate us. We know what they have done to him in the past, and I'm willing to bet they were licking their chops watching that High School level performance by our OL...This could get out of hand in a hurry fellas..

yinzer
09-22-2008, 11:31 PM
I really dont see how Ben could have gotten that ball out any faster. He was under heavy fire. He looked like Neo from the Matrix back there dodging bullets. I really had no Idea our O-line was that bad. 6 sacks in 1 quarter is about as bad as it gets. Thats what you expect from the back ups, not the starters. If changes aren't made this week, then it will be Bens last game this year because the Ravens are just as nasty, if not worse than the Eagles, and they hate us. We know what they have done to him in the past, and I'm willing to bet they were licking their chops watching that High School level performance by our OL...This could get out of hand in a hurry fellas..

:plus1: i know that flacco is on the road and he's a first time starter but i'm not worried about baltimore's OFFENSE. their d will bring the heat all night after last night's arians' abortion.

Koopa
09-23-2008, 01:20 AM
ben just isn't a smart qb, everything he does has to be on the fly........ i like ben and all, but he's ****ing retarded, i didn't see this game, but at least half his sacks are his fault, he's to damn stubborn, it's highlight pass or nothing, heath should be up there with the best tight ends, cause he could bail ben out with ease, but ben only wants to throw it 40+....... that's why once he came haynes no longer had a place, they couldn't utilize his talent, and that's why moore is a waste of a contract cause ben won't use him right either

NCSteeler
09-23-2008, 02:44 AM
I don't want to rag Ben too much, because he is the best QB we've had in a lot of years. But at the same time they go on and on about him having all this say in the offense and the game plan, makes you wonder if some of this isn't on his shoulders. Anyhow if I can say this without getting banned(ala that other no talking bad abotu anythign the team does MB), Arians needs to go. I am tired of his all or nothing game plans. It seems like we toss up 40 points or don't score at all. In this league you have got to be able to go in at half time and make good adjustments. Dick does it on Defense. Whiz used to do it, why can't Arians?

DBR96A
09-23-2008, 03:37 AM
Bruce Arians is to Steelers offensive coordinators what Tim Lewis was to Steelers defensive coordinators. Whenever their schemes worked, they worked well, but whenever their schemes didn't work, they failed miserably, and neither was able to properly adjust.

TampaSteelGirl
09-23-2008, 09:01 AM
ben just isn't a smart qb, everything he does has to be on the fly........ i like ben and all, but he's ****ing retarded, i didn't see this game, but at least half his sacks are his fault, he's to damn stubborn, it's highlight pass or nothing, heath should be up there with the best tight ends, cause he could bail ben out with ease, but ben only wants to throw it 40+....... that's why once he came haynes no longer had a place, they couldn't utilize his talent, and that's why moore is a waste of a contract cause ben won't use him right either

Thats complete crap and if you didn't see the game then why comment on what you didn't even see!!!???? You're the ****ing retard!
No one said Ben was perfect but he is one of the best QBs in the league. If you would have seen the game then you would have seen that most times he couldn't even take a step to get out of the way, he was pounded by 3 or 4 guys. Get the facts jack! :duh:

LatrobePA
09-23-2008, 09:12 AM
Sunday's game reminded me alot of my boys pee wee games, our oline gets pushed back into the qb and even handing the ball off is tough!

This week will be tested again, but I think our guys will be ready, they have to be!!

JensK
09-23-2008, 09:24 AM
Thats complete crap and if you didn't see the game then why comment on what you didn't even see!!!???? You're the ****ing retard!
No one said Ben was perfect but he is one of the best QBs in the league. If you would have seen the game then you would have seen that most times he couldn't even take a step to get out of the way, he was pounded by 3 or 4 guys. Get the facts jack! :duh:

You do know that Koopa is right, right? :yesnod: Ben is such a great QB, that there is no reason at all to run around and try to win the game by your self. We have so many weapons, that he should just get rid of the ball instead of doing it all by him self. It was spectacular and all at one point, but its only nifty so much, and then it gets way anoying, since he seem to get himself hurt everytime he tries it.

I know im going to get a lot of heat for that, but its just a fact. Ben is hurt all the freaking time, and you can blaime the O-line for some of the hits, but most of it is Ben not getting rid of the ball.

floodcitygirl
09-23-2008, 09:34 AM
You do know that Koopa is right, right? :yesnod: Ben is such a great QB, that there is no reason at all to run around and try to win the game by your self. We have so many weapons, that he should just get rid of the ball instead of doing it all by him self. It was spectacular and all at one point, but its only nifty so much, and then it gets way anoying, since he seem to get himself hurt everytime he tries it.

I know im going to get a lot of heat for that, but its just a fact. Ben is hurt all the freaking time, and you can blaime the O-line for some of the hits, but most of it is Ben not getting rid of the ball.I don't think many would argue that Ben holds on to the ball too long at times. However, Ben had no chance to get rid of that ball on Sunday. He had no protection and was once again running for his life. There is no other place to put the blame for this one, imo.

yinzer
09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
I don't think many would argue that Ben holds on to the ball too long at times. However, Ben had no chance to get rid of that ball on Sunday. He had no protection and was once again running for his life. There is no other place to put the blame for this one, imo.

exactly. since we're talking about the philly game and the philly game ONLY, ben didn't have time to hold onto the ball to long.

TampaSteelGirl
09-23-2008, 10:07 AM
You do know that Koopa is right, right? :yesnod: Ben is such a great QB, that there is no reason at all to run around and try to win the game by your self. We have so many weapons, that he should just get rid of the ball instead of doing it all by him self. It was spectacular and all at one point, but its only nifty so much, and then it gets way anoying, since he seem to get himself hurt everytime he tries it.

I know im going to get a lot of heat for that, but its just a fact. Ben is hurt all the freaking time, and you can blaime the O-line for some of the hits, but most of it is Ben not getting rid of the ball.

NO he's not right, if you have no way of even getting your arm in position to throw the ball then how can you be successful? I'm not talking about every play but a good % of them. I do agree that Ben needs to get rid of the ball sooner BUT he didn't have many chances this week to make many throws, they were all over him. What isn't fair is him commenting so negatively on Ben on a game that he never even watched! Yes there are times that Ben doesn't trust in his receivers or TE I believe and tries to do alot by himself by running for his life but this game, he didn't even have a chance to run!

BR7
09-23-2008, 10:08 AM
Where were all the blitz killing plays? Anyone recall seeing any screen passes to the HB or draws? Arians is a boner.. bring back Ron Erhardt.

steel-tex
09-24-2008, 10:48 AM
you cant block 8 with 6 or 7 with 5 and not expect your qb not to get crushed. Arians needs to compensate for this - the qb needs to direct it. screen pass, tight end , draw -- somthin. not run the ball right into it over and over again. there are offensive plays to use against this type of defence. we didn't do these things against the eagles--- ( they call me bruce) strikes again !!!

SteelerFan87
09-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Now that I think about it, I would have liked to see the no huddle in that situation. Just go no huddle, short passes, dump offs to the RBs, etc, and don't give the defense time to adjust. Just speed things up and you get the defense back on their heels a little bit, which negates the blitz. How many times have we seen other teams do that to our own defense?

LatrobePA
09-24-2008, 03:40 PM
Guys and gals, I've been looking at this very close and prolly too much. But I personally don't feel the o-line problem will be fixed anytime soon, and our D can only handle so much. With that said, I know this is loss number one. I'm not jumping ship or gonna hit the panic button.

But if there were signs of good to come I'd write it off that way. But there isn't.

Truth is we start our tougher part of the season Monday, I look for another o-line beat down by the Rats, Jacksonville will also bring it in a big way.

Ben is on pace to be sacked 75 times this season based on an average. No way he makes it to the break!!

Stairwayto7
09-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Guys and gals, I've been looking at this very close and prolly too much. But I personally don't feel the o-line problem will be fixed anytime soon, and our D can only handle so much. With that said, I know this is loss number one. I'm not jumping ship or gonna hit the panic button.

But if there were signs of good to come I'd write it off that way. But there isn't.

Truth is we start our tougher part of the season Monday, I look for another o-line beat down by the Rats, Jacksonville will also bring it in a big way.

Ben is on pace to be sacked 75 times this season based on an average. No way he makes it to the break!!


This isn`t much different than all the other threads about this subject. Ben has been beat up after all three games, and everyone is bringing the kitchen sink from here on out. Ben is in trouble, plain and simple.

mental.apparition
09-24-2008, 04:54 PM
the majority of the early protection issues where mental - calling protections, finding your guy and play calling. There were physical fu<kups sure, but the biggest problem was scheme and calls.

Mental can be fixed quickly and if you listen to Tomlin he has the right approach: reduce, sharpen and march on.

The game plan will be simpler and the protection calls simpler. Similar to what they did in '06 when Ben was struggling. Back then Whiz and Arians basically limited Ben to reading one half of the field at a time and it worked as they closed the season strong.


I also agree with Tomlin that simple won't cut it when competing for the tourney later on but this offense has to find it's rhythm quickly or we'll see more weeks like this.

Go simple and just beat the fu<k outta the ravens and all will be well in Steeler Nation next week.

NCSteeler
09-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Now that I think about it, I would have liked to see the no huddle in that situation. Just go no huddle, short passes, dump offs to the RBs, etc, and don't give the defense time to adjust. Just speed things up and you get the defense back on their heels a little bit, which negates the blitz. How many times have we seen other teams do that to our own defense?


Couldn't agree more. We keep hearing all the talk and lip service on the no huddle, but when we need it the coaches don't have the balls to pull it out and use it. Once Ben was rattled it was too late, but they should have started mixing it up long before that. it was obvious to everyone I was with that the O had no rhythm and needed a boost that the no huddle or at least speeding up the play would have given them.

BLEIER20
09-24-2008, 06:54 PM
The O-Line is an issue and concern yes, but THEY will have to fight as a unit, pick up each others slack and play 110% Down and Dirty FOOTBALL!!! Don't count them out just yet! The 2nd stringers will step it up! Be positive here! People writing them off already and it's only going into the 4th week! Damn!

SteelerSteve
09-24-2008, 07:41 PM
Ben definitely needs to work on getting the ball out sooner; but as we've talked about before it's just part of his game.he's a guy who will keep plays alive and will make a lot of big throws under prssure..it's a catch 22.

BTW, I'm watching the Jets/Chargers game tonight..the Chargers are blitzing Favre and low and behold what does he do might you ask? Well, they go to quick drops, short passes, and just busted a 30 yd gain and Brett is standing straight up. Think Arians could learn something from watching this game? I have to disagree here. Ben obviously has improved alot on getting the ball out quickly. The first game against the Texans I think he did fine, and in the very rare, almost non exsistent times he had little time against philly he made some decent strikes downfield. All he needs is a little time As far as changing up the game plan and incorperating some shorter passes your spot on though.:yesnod:

Clevelandsux
09-24-2008, 07:45 PM
There are no quick fixes. My problem is that the Steelers haven't addressed the poor line in the past two drafts. The o-line has been a problem since 2006.

yinzer
09-24-2008, 08:21 PM
it's gonna take more than a season to fix the o line because you have to have talent to do that. maybe next draft they'll address the line.

SteelfordWexler
09-24-2008, 08:47 PM
the majority of the early protection issues where mental - calling protections, finding your guy and play calling. There were physical fu<kups sure, but the biggest problem was scheme and calls.


:plus1: Agreed. Most of the pressure was from guys running free. The line would block five, but they bring 7. The secondary made Ben and the receivers hesitate with creative coverage behind the blitz (plus Samuels can lock someone up one on one) and walla - 9 sacks and a loss.

The o-line talent is good enough to be at least average (probably better). The protection plan and the route adjustments were not working at all. The good news is that should all be fixable.

I'm calling it - we get it together and beat down Baltimore. 34 catches a bunch out of the backfield and has a huge comming out party on national TV. Madden says he is a combination of Brian Westbrook and Walter Payton.

HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!

Clevelandsux
09-24-2008, 08:54 PM
:plus1: Agreed. Most of the pressure was from guys running free. The line would block five, but they bring 7. The secondary made Ben and the receivers hesitate with creative coverage behind the blitz (plus Samuels can lock someone up one on one) and walla - 9 sacks and a loss.

The o-line talent is good enough to be at least average (probably better). The protection plan and the route adjustments were not working at all. The good news is that should all be fixable.

I'm calling it - we get it together and beat down Baltimore. 34 catches a bunch out of the backfield and has a huge comming out party on national TV. Madden says he is a combination of Brian Westbrook and Walter Payton.

HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!

To whom are you referring too?

SteelfordWexler
09-24-2008, 10:08 PM
To whom are you referring too?

Rashard Mendenhall. Unless you mean who an I agreeing with - that was mental.apparition. If you mean who has the talent to be average on the oline - um - well - uh -

Ok, I can't recall right now, but I'm sure that I was thinking of somebody.