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View Full Version : Ben Is 15th Highest Paid Athlete. Where Does He Rank As A Best QB?



Steelerlyn
06-04-2008, 07:19 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...x.html?eref=T1

K Train
06-04-2008, 07:20 PM
well hes the second highest paid QB, and probably the 3rd or 4th best overall QB

Black@Gold Forever32
06-04-2008, 07:22 PM
well hes the second highest paid QB, and probably the 3rd or 4th best overall QB

I agree.......I rank Ben 3rd....

steelcityrockers
06-04-2008, 07:25 PM
In the Top-7. It is very debatable.

BlitzburghRockCity
06-04-2008, 07:26 PM
I'd put him in the top 5 in the league for sure. He's easily mentioned in same breath as Manning, Brady, Palmer, Eli Manning, and anyone else you care to place at the top of the NFL.

K Train
06-04-2008, 07:33 PM
after last year i would say most would have him just behind manning and brady. last year he passed palmer, mcnabb...among others.

and im not sure eli should even be mentioned yet, they had a nice playoff run but was terrible for alot of the year

BlitzburghRockCity
06-04-2008, 07:40 PM
I think when you win the SB you automatically get thrown into the top QB's in the league status whether it's warranted or not. Eli was average best during most of the year then he was very good in the playoffs and the SB.

K Train
06-04-2008, 07:42 PM
meh ben wasnt really thrown in after the superbowl, no one really gave him much credit at all actually

Steelerlyn
06-04-2008, 08:56 PM
meh ben wasnt really thrown in after the superbowl, no one really gave him much credit at all actually

Ben did great in the playofffs but not really in the superbowl, did he?

K Train
06-04-2008, 08:57 PM
I KNOW, but no one outside of pittsburgh gave him any credit for his first 2 years

Black@Gold Forever32
06-04-2008, 09:16 PM
Ben did great in the playofffs but not really in the superbowl, did he?

Terry Brashaw sucked his first four years.....:lol: Ben was huge in the play-offs and the Steelers don't make the Super Bowl without Ben....He was due for a bad game after playing well in the first three play-off games....Plus not to mention Ben was just in his second year as a pro...He was young so no shock he played poor in the Super Bowl....

steelcityrockers
06-04-2008, 09:25 PM
I think when you win the SB you automatically get thrown into the top QB's in the league status whether it's warranted or not. Eli was average best during most of the year then he was very good in the playoffs and the SB.

I disagree. Call it the Trent Dilfer clause. Average at best QB's can win the Super Bowl. Super Bowl winning QB's do not automatically deserve to be overrated.

SteelersWoman
06-05-2008, 12:06 AM
Until this season's over, I'd put him second in the league. He earned the right last season to be considered better than Manning for at least 07 based on his rating, TD's, etc. Overall (considering all years), I put him third.

TEEMONT
06-05-2008, 05:01 AM
I'd put him in the top 5 in the league for sure. He's easily mentioned in same breath as Manning, Brady, Palmer, Eli Manning, and anyone else you care to place at the top of the NFL.

no way....Palmer sucks...he wont do **** w/o 85....and winning an SB does not guarantee u greatness.....and Ben is an example....he sucked in the SB....but his last season proved what kind of QB he is.....Eli is still garbage....the best completion int eh SB( David Tyree) had nothing to do with him.

blinkbdj
06-05-2008, 05:34 AM
Ranked up there with Eli Manning? :scratch: Umm...guys, Eli Manning is horrible. The only time he played well in 4 years was this years playoff run. His regular season passer ratings are 55.4, 75.9, 77.0, and 73.9 respectively :hilarious:. Why do you think people were calling for his head earlier this season? He is a very average (or below average) quarterback and an INT machine.

Steel58
06-05-2008, 08:50 AM
I th[I]ink he is 3rd best:cope:

steelcityrockers
06-05-2008, 04:55 PM
Quick List:
1a.Tom Brady
1b.Peyton Manning
3.Drew Brees
4a.Carson Palmer
4b.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Matt Hasslebeck.

Steelerlyn
06-05-2008, 05:18 PM
Quick List:
1a.Tom Brady
1b.Peyton Manning
3.Drew Brees
4a.Carson Palmer
4b.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Matt Hasslebeck.

Are you the source of this list?

K Train
06-05-2008, 05:59 PM
Quick List:
1a.Tom Brady
1b.Peyton Manning
3.Drew Brees
4a.Carson Palmer
4b.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Matt Hasslebeck.

Drew brees is good but hes a tad spoiled, LT and gates to Bush, duece and coltson...LT and Bush are a QBs wet dream, all those passes out of the backfield to save your *** when **** breaks down.

Carson Palmer is extremely overrated, hes a statue....drew bledsoe v 2.0

and i dont really think hasselbeck is in the conversation, he doesnt really bring anything special to the table, he had one of the besr running games ever and when that dies out so did the seahawks...seneca wallace could run that offense just as good imo

steelcityrockers
06-05-2008, 06:52 PM
Are you the source of this list?

Yes.


Drew Brees is a bit underrated imo. Yeah, he has had Bush, who has hands but nothing else, and LT who is the best currently. Right now in Nawlins where he has had 2 of his best 3 seasons, he has little at TE, a sub-par running game, and a mediocre receiving corps after Colston. He hasn't really actually had a good #2 since he got there. Joe Horn was on his deathbed his first year, Devery Henderson can't catch anything, and Terrence Copper/Lance Moore/David Patten/Robert Meachem don't really inspire confidence. He has had a pretty good OLine, but nothing spectacular.

Palmer did have an off year, but most people do at one point or another. In 2005 he was absolutely electric, almost unstoppable. In 2006 despite having a torn up knee, he had a pretty solid year. This year, he had no 3rd WR nor a TE who can catch, a putrid ground game, and a less-than-commendable line.

Hasslebeck had a great season this year. Despite injuries everywhere and a lack of a rushing attack.

TrojanHorse
06-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Ranked up there with Eli Manning? :scratch: Umm...guys, Eli Manning is horrible. The only time he played well in 4 years was this years playoff run. His regular season passer ratings are 55.4, 75.9, 77.0, and 73.9 respectively :hilarious:. Why do you think people were calling for his head earlier this season? He is a very average (or below average) quarterback and an INT machine.

The Giants passing game was more conservative in the playoffs, setting Manning up to make fewer mistakes. I still don't see him as an elite QB, despite his superbowl win. The Giants made their run with defense. The entire defensive line should have been superbowl MVP. Eli was about as valuable as Brad Johnson, when the bucs won it all.....of course I am bias, because I'm a chargers fan...and we will forever hate Eli Manning for feeling he was God's gift to football, and good enough to say who should or shouldn't draft him...and that he wouldn't play for the Chargers.

BlitzburghRockCity
06-06-2008, 07:03 AM
I think Manning is starting to come into his own; last year he was very average during the season but the game plan the Giants had in the playoffs definitely set him up nicely to help lead his team to the eventual SB win. I'll be interested to watch him this year and see if he actually steps up his game. I wouldn't want anyone else other than Ben to lead the team.

Iron City South
06-06-2008, 11:17 AM
The whole topic of where does Ben rank is basically just a pissing contest.

:whiz:

Honestly, I could care less if Ben is 2nd or 22nd .... as long as our team makes it to the dance. :tt02:

Steelerlyn
06-06-2008, 11:46 AM
Yes.


Drew Brees is a bit underrated imo. Yeah, he has had Bush, who has hands but nothing else, and LT who is the best currently. Right now in Nawlins where he has had 2 of his best 3 seasons, he has little at TE, a sub-par running game, and a mediocre receiving corps after Colston. He hasn't really actually had a good #2 since he got there. Joe Horn was on his deathbed his first year, Devery Henderson can't catch anything, and Terrence Copper/Lance Moore/David Patten/Robert Meachem don't really inspire confidence. He has had a pretty good OLine, but nothing spectacular.

Palmer did have an off year, but most people do at one point or another. In 2005 he was absolutely electric, almost unstoppable. In 2006 despite having a torn up knee, he had a pretty solid year. This year, he had no 3rd WR nor a TE who can catch, a putrid ground game, and a less-than-commendable line.

Hasslebeck had a great season this year. Despite injuries everywhere and a lack of a rushing attack.

Why is Brady always #!? Since Spygate has come out my opinion of his athletic ability has gone down, let's see how he does playing the game legally. He was not the hottest ticket in town when he played for scUM...he was like 7th on the depth chart. His first 2 years he was a backup and even hred a sports psychologist to help him deal with the frustration of never actually getting on the field. After Brian Griese left scUM and only then did TB get to play, he battled out Drew He in 1998 & started every game after that. In fact he was cocaptain in 1999. He is smart, he graduated cum laude and he is ranked third in scUM history with 442 completions from 710 attempts............maybe he should be #1 LOL:)nson

steelcitysfinestXL
06-06-2008, 01:15 PM
1.Manning
2.Brady (spygate or not dude is a beast)
3.Ben
4.McNabb
5.Brees

Manning- Smart, he runs the whole show and does it better than anyone. I believe Manning could put up similar numbers ALMOST anywhere (on any team) He calls his own offense. He's accurate short,long and intermediate. He has the hardware (rings, MVPs, probowls, Records)

Brady- I put him at second because i believe he is in a system that any of my top 5 would excel in. You put brady as the steelers qb last year and there is no way he puts up Bens '07 numbers. But he has Manning like physical skills and played quite a few seasons with **** poor WRs.

Ben- Short of a young/healthy McNabb, i dont think any qb in the league now would do as well as Ben did last yearbehind our oline. WHich is a testiment to how talented he really is. He is 2 good OL away from greatness!

McNabb- 3 straight conference championships with NO ONE at WR (until the 1 season w/ T.O.) says it all to me. Still IMO the best deep ball thrower in the NFC maybe NFL. Mobile,strong,smart... the only problem i have with him is his durability

Brees- Most accurate QB in the league when he is given time. He makes average WRs look like probowlers. He can make any throw on the field with pin point accuracy and does it all at a whopping 5'10 or so!!!

ejsteeler
06-06-2008, 01:43 PM
Ben is paid proportionate to his abilities. I'm willing to live with him being the 15th best since he is the 15th highest paid. My belief is that we will get our money's worth from him. :yellowthumb::cope:

K Train
06-06-2008, 03:40 PM
1.Manning
2.Brady (spygate or not dude is a beast)
3.Ben
4.McNabb
5.Brees

Manning- Smart, he runs the whole show and does it better than anyone. I believe Manning could put up similar numbers ALMOST anywhere (on any team) He calls his own offense. He's accurate short,long and intermediate. He has the hardware (rings, MVPs, probowls, Records)

Brady- I put him at second because i believe he is in a system that any of my top 5 would excel in. You put brady as the steelers qb last year and there is no way he puts up Bens '07 numbers. But he has Manning like physical skills and played quite a few seasons with **** poor WRs.

Ben- Short of a young/healthy McNabb, i dont think any qb in the league now would do as well as Ben did last yearbehind our oline. WHich is a testiment to how talented he really is. He is 2 good OL away from greatness!

McNabb- 3 straight conference championships with NO ONE at WR (until the 1 season w/ T.O.) says it all to me. Still IMO the best deep ball thrower in the NFC maybe NFL. Mobile,strong,smart... the only problem i have with him is his durability

Brees- Most accurate QB in the league when he is given time. He makes average WRs look like probowlers. He can make any throw on the field with pin point accuracy and does it all at a whopping 5'10 or so!!!

i dont think manning or brady would have gone far on our team last year, thats what makes ben special...hes a big man but his elusiveness seperates him, put ben on the patriots or colts and he almost has it to easy. if he could just drop back and pass to reggie wayne or randy moss he wouldnt know what to do with all that time and would probably roll oout automatically lol

steelcityrockers
06-06-2008, 06:04 PM
I really dont think McNabb is Top-5 anymore. Yeah, he is still pretty good but not the best. Real big durability concerns, he has always had erratic accuracy, yeah his WR's would likely be 4th or 5th guys on some teams and give him MAJOR props for that. I just think he isn't as good as he once was.

UofLsteelfan
06-07-2008, 02:29 PM
i think ben has to be at the top of the list as far as the best quarterbacks in the league goes. top five for sure.

steelcitysfinestXL
06-08-2008, 07:26 PM
I really dont think McNabb is Top-5 anymore. Yeah, he is still pretty good but not the best. Real big durability concerns, he has always had erratic accuracy, yeah his WR's would likely be 4th or 5th guys on some teams and give him MAJOR props for that. I just think he isn't as good as he once was.

I agree, but who do you put there. Eli, Romo, Rivers, Hesselback, Palmer dont belong IMO. Except for eli, all of them have have found ways to lose big games numerous times. Delhome, Garcia, Kitna can put up numbers but none deserve that status. Gerrard is looking like he could make a serious name for himself in the next few seasons... but i really dont think any of these guys have game like D-McNabb.

steelcityrockers
06-08-2008, 07:31 PM
I would put Romo, Hasslebeck, and Rivers ahead of him. I still see im in the top-8 or so, just not top-5. His being prone to injury concerns me and it always kind of takes him a few games after injury to get really going again it seems.

JensK
06-08-2008, 07:52 PM
Its a pretty hard topic to discuss. Because its pretty impossible to say that Manning is better than Brady or the other way around (same with the other potential top-5 QBs). There is no doub, that Brady, Manning (both i suppose), Ben, McNabb, Romo, Brees and the rest are all good QBs. But they all come from differend systems, and its tough to tell if Manning would play as good as he does if he came to Pittsburgh. I think the list, based on pure performance should be:

1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Ben

Im not going to list the last two, because i really don't know who i should put there.

Anyways, the list is only legit if you forget about the rest of the team and only focus on how the QB's played (numbers etc.). If you see the rest of the team the list should be

1. Ben
2. Manning
3. Brady

imo anyways. Ben had a hard year, with no O-line what-so-ever. Both manning and brady had great lines and great reciever teams. Ben did not, and he still had the third highest raiting in the league in the regular season. That is pretty impressive.

SteelerSteve
06-08-2008, 11:49 PM
This is always a fun discussion lol

I would have to say the list should go:

1.Manning
2.Brady
3.Roethlisberger

After that is when it gets alot tougher

4.Brees(Even though I think he's a bit overrated)
5.Palmer

BTW Phillip Rivers imo is not a top seven pick and barely a top 10 if at all.

K Train
06-09-2008, 12:07 AM
i kinda forgot about romo

i wouldnt even put hasselbeck or rivers in the discussion at all

SteelerSteve
06-09-2008, 12:12 AM
i kinda forgot about romo

i wouldnt even put hasselbeck or rivers in the discussion at allI don't know, I think Hasselbeck is an above average QB and think he should be considered top ten, but definitley in the 7-10 range. Rivers only gets hype because of his talented team. Romo looks like the real deal for dallas so far, but I still need some more proof to consider him an elite qb. Maybe a solid playoff run would convince me:scratch:

K Train
06-09-2008, 12:16 AM
no, romo has it, hes a baller....he could never win a playoff game in his life...the dude can play

SteelerSteve
06-09-2008, 12:20 AM
no, romo has it, hes a baller....he could never win a playoff game in his life...the dude can playokay, heres a question for you.......do you think Palmer will bounce back this season or continue to struggle??? because last year he was considered to be the successor to Brady and Manning as the best qb in the NFL and everyone was all over his nuts lol.

K Train
06-09-2008, 12:36 AM
no i dont....i think the injury hurt his ability bad and his team is either falling apart or getting old. Hes got a rough few years ahead of him.

He is drew bledsoe v 2.0 when it come to mobility and his oline is getting old, hes got no run game and no defense with 2 whiny wrs who might not even be there

Black@Gold Forever32
06-09-2008, 02:08 AM
I would put Romo, Hasslebeck, and Rivers ahead of him. I still see im in the top-8 or so, just not top-5. His being prone to injury concerns me and it always kind of takes him a few games after injury to get really going again it seems.

Dude don't take this the wrong way...But how can you really have Rivers rated ahead of Big Ben?.....I think he is a good QB but I think Ben has accomplished more and has been more impressive then Rivers so far in their respective careers.....

I can see Hasselbeck and Romo being in the discussion...... But still I think I would have Ben ahead of them.....Especially Romo........I think Romo is in the top five and he has looked very good since being the starter....But having a WR like TO is really helpful to a QB....I'm not saying Ben has sorry WRs....But the Steelers don't have a WR that dictates coverage like TO does.....Plus Ben has had success in the play-offs were Romo has laid an egg two years now...

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As for Carson Palmer....He will be one of those QBs that puts up 3700-4000 yards in a season and throws 25-30 TDs a season but could never have any post season success....I question his leadership skills...He seems to let his prima-donna WRs walk all over him....lol

Steel58
06-09-2008, 08:55 AM
3rd best:tt02:

steelcitysfinestXL
06-09-2008, 11:54 AM
I don't know, I think Hasselbeck is an above average QB and think he should be considered top ten, but definitley in the 7-10 range. Rivers only gets hype because of his talented team. Romo looks like the real deal for dallas so far, but I still need some more proof to consider him an elite qb. Maybe a solid playoff run would convince me:scratch:

Exactly, romos is over-hyped!!! He plays for a team where every little thing turns into a media frenzy, he was with Jessica "Chicken of the Seas" Simpson, hes from a lil shiat town no-one ever heard of... i think this dudes media hype outshines his abilities by far!! He is a good athelete, makes some circus plays and throws. But to me he's in that group with Eli, Rivers, Young, Cutler and Lienhart: the Young Gunz who have yet to cement themselves as good Franchise QBs. I would have to say IMO Romo is at the head of this group and he has the contract!

Rivers will be a solid starter for the duration of his career with LT. He makes some solid throws and he has some serious HEART, but we got lucky with Ben being the last one left of that draft!!!

Hasselback is the only QB woth considering in the top 5. He's a bit "Favrish" in his confidence at times... but dude is consistanly probowl matterial with some BUMASS WR's. I mean HORRIBLE! For the last 4 years all you hear about is the Seattle WR's woes and dropped passes! He's atheletic, accurate and quick to get rid of the ball!!

steelcityrockers
06-09-2008, 05:43 PM
Don't ever put Vince Young in a group of QB's who don't completely suck. He is the 78th best QB in the AFC. He sucks so bad it is sad. I would take Ben throwing left handed with a dislocated shoulder over Vince Young. He is an abomination.

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Dude don't take this the wrong way...But how can you really have Rivers rated ahead of Big Ben?.....I think he is a good QB but I think Ben has accomplished more and has been more impressive then Rivers so far in their respective careers.....





I think I was talking about McNabb, who I do put Rivers in front of.

K Train
06-09-2008, 06:47 PM
Exactly, romos is over-hyped!!! He plays for a team where every little thing turns into a media frenzy, he was with Jessica "Chicken of the Seas" Simpson, hes from a lil shiat town no-one ever heard of... i think this dudes media hype outshines his abilities by far!! He is a good athelete, makes some circus plays and throws. But to me he's in that group with Eli, Rivers, Young, Cutler and Lienhart: the Young Gunz who have yet to cement themselves as good Franchise QBs. I would have to say IMO Romo is at the head of this group and he has the contract!

Rivers will be a solid starter for the duration of his career with LT. He makes some solid throws and he has some serious HEART, but we got lucky with Ben being the last one left of that draft!!!

Hasselback is the only QB woth considering in the top 5. He's a bit "Favrish" in his confidence at times... but dude is consistanly probowl matterial with some BUMASS WR's. I mean HORRIBLE! For the last 4 years all you hear about is the Seattle WR's woes and dropped passes! He's atheletic, accurate and quick to get rid of the ball!!

romo has a good situation around him but he made the most of it, which is what you do when you can play AND fall into a good situation. hes not overrated

steelcitysfinestXL
06-09-2008, 06:49 PM
Don't ever put Vince Young in a group of QB's who don't completely suck. He is the 78th best QB in the AFC. He sucks so bad it is sad. I would take Ben throwing left handed with a dislocated shoulder over Vince Young. He is an abomination.
.

LOL, i was just saying he's in a group of young guys who need to prove their worth as a franchise player... not saying he was any good!

And no Phillip Rivers is not better han McNabb, Rivers is an avergae qb who is best suited as a "game manager" Ive never seen him put his team on his back and carry them through a game. Like i said he has more heart than most QB's but i think he reeps the benefits of the weapons on his offense, with out Gates and LT he would be lost in the mix!

steelcityrockers
06-09-2008, 06:56 PM
He has made due with some pretty average Wide-outs save for Gates. I think it is a little cruel to say that he is only good becuase he is surrounded by a lot of talent.

steelcitysfinestXL
06-09-2008, 07:16 PM
romo has a good situation around him but he made the most of it, which is what you do when you can play AND fall into a good situation. hes not overrated

Im not saying he sucks, im saying he isnt great (like most make him out to be) I was HEATED when he got that deal cause i knew it would be the bench mark for guys like ben. He put up some great numbers, but i think he is over hyped due the the fact he plays in "Big D". To me he has lost big games for his team. For all the TD's he threw last season he only had 5 in the last 5 games plus 6 ints and 5 fumbles. including there 1-and-done in the play offs against the giants ( a team he put up massive numbers against twie earlier that season)

When ben played like *** in his first playoff year (rookie season) and in SBXL every one wanted to right him off as a guy who chokes in the playoffs, and was unproven. Even though he had some amazing age and W-L records. Im just saying this guy gets alot of credit thrown his way for someone who blew 2 playoff games!!

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He has made due with some pretty average Wide-outs save for Gates. I think it is a little cruel to say that he is only good becuase he is surrounded by a lot of talent.

True i mean an old Kenan McCardell isnt the best option, but the excuse of not having anyone to throw to never saved guys like Vick. Drew Brees made due with less, and then was dealt and turned the aints to the Saints. The Chargers were a 12 win team before Rivers, and im sold that they'd be a 10 win team with Billy Volek at the helm (really just kidding) Sorry Rockers im just a lil biased cause Rivers is a lil whinny bitch and i really just hate him!

steelcityrockers
06-09-2008, 07:20 PM
Haha, hey we all hate some players (Vince Young). Vick was so bad, the year he left Roddy White became, basically, a Pro Bowler

SteelerSteve
06-11-2008, 11:21 PM
LOL, i was just saying he's in a group of young guys who need to prove their worth as a franchise player... not saying he was any good!

And no Phillip Rivers is not better han McNabb, Rivers is an avergae qb who is best suited as a "game manager" Ive never seen him put his team on his back and carry them through a game. Like i said he has more heart than most QB's but i think he reeps the benefits of the weapons on his offense, with out Gates and LT he would be lost in the mix!I would take Mcnabb leading our team than rivers any day! Rivers will make some crazy good throws sometimes, but then he will just blow you away with how erratic he is.

K Train
06-11-2008, 11:37 PM
all that matters is ben is number one in my heart

SteelerSteve
06-12-2008, 11:36 PM
all that matters is ben is number one in my heartlol that was beautiful :lol:

Steel58
06-13-2008, 08:42 AM
I would say 3rd best

steelerschick1220
06-23-2008, 12:52 PM
My list is:
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Ben

After those two, I have no idea who to put in slots 4 and 5. I guess maybe because I really don't care.

TEEMONT
06-23-2008, 01:05 PM
I would put Romo, Hasslebeck, and Rivers ahead of him. I still see im in the top-8 or so, just not top-5. His being prone to injury concerns me and it always kind of takes him a few games after injury to get really going again it seems.

wait a second, who's injury-prone?

I really hope you aren't suggesting Ben is, and before you call me a homer, you can ask anyone here, that before you came here I was a HUGE ben basher. I still think he is a tool, but he is far from injury-prone.

If you call a motorcycle crash and an appendectomy injury-prone, well then you have high standards.

He missed a few games the SB year, and the last two he has missed one game per year. With the atrocity that was his line, I wouldnt call him injury prone.

K Train
06-23-2008, 01:52 PM
he had a thumb issue for a while, but he played through it...even when charlie probably shouldve been in there

steelcityrockers
06-23-2008, 02:14 PM
No, I think I was talking about McNabb.

K Train
06-23-2008, 02:21 PM
oh well hes kinda injury prone lol

K Train
06-23-2008, 02:24 PM
I th[I]ink he is 3rd best:cope:


3rd best:tt02:


I would say 3rd best

lol, bring home the lombardis, bring in matt jones and say noooooooooooo to booger

steelcityrockers
06-23-2008, 03:42 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

TEEMONT
06-24-2008, 12:35 PM
lol, bring home the lombardis, bring in matt jones and say noooooooooooo to booger

i just pee'd a little bit

SteelerSteve
06-26-2008, 06:23 PM
lol, bring home the lombardis, bring in matt jones and say noooooooooooo to booger
:lol::bluelol::lol::bluelol::lol::bluelol: