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Iron City South
05-07-2008, 11:11 PM
Anyone want to question Arlen Spector now? :nono: The tape of the Steelers for the 2002 AFCCG is supposed to be extensive. Steelers coaches are seen giving signals for plays immediately followed by the play run from two different angles. :willybs:


Ex-Patriots Assistant Sends the N.F.L. Eight Tapes

By GREG BISHOP
Published: May 8, 2008

A former New England Patriots employee has sent the N.F.L. eight videotapes showing the team recorded play-calling signals by coaches of five opponents in six games between the 2000 and 2002 seasons, in violation of league rules.
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Analysis and discussion of the N.F.L. draft and off-season news from around the league.

But the group of tapes does not include video of the St. Louis Rams’ walk-through practice the day before the 2002 Super Bowl. The employee, Matt Walsh, had been linked to such a tape by news media speculation.

Walsh emerged as a pivotal figure in the spying controversy that enveloped the Patriots last season after they were caught taping Jets defensive signals in the season opener.

Walsh, who worked for the Patriots from 1997 to 2003, agreed to turn over the tapes and other evidence by Thursday under an agreement reached last month between lawyers for the N.F.L. and Walsh. The agreement indemnifies Walsh from all future legal fees.

Walsh’s tapes show that the Patriots recorded the signals of offensive and defensive coaches in regular-season games against the Miami Dolphins, the Buffalo Bills, the Cleveland Browns and the San Diego Chargers and against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2002 American Football Conference championship game. In that game, the tape has been edited to show Steelers coaches signaling plays, followed by two different camera angles of the actual plays that were called. :evilshake:

The New York Times obtained a list of the Walsh videotapes. The information was later confirmed by Walsh’s lawyer, Michael Levy, from the Washington offices of McKee Nelson.

The N.F.L. declined to comment Wednesday night because it did not have the tapes in its possession.

The Boston Herald reported the day before this year’s Super Bowl that a tape of the Rams existed, citing an anonymous source.

Walsh does not possess such a tape, Levy said.

“Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walk-through,” Levy said in a telephone interview. “Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald article.”

On Tuesday, Walsh is scheduled to speak with Commissioner Roger Goodell and Senator Arlen Specter in separate meetings. Walsh could provide additional information at that time, including how the taping worked, how extensive it was, which Patriots employees were involved and the significance of the evidence he handed over.

The first tape is dated Sept. 25, 2000, from a game the previous day. The last is from Sept. 29 two years later.

All the tapes are scheduled to arrive at N.F.L. offices Thursday morning.

Levy would not say whether Walsh was behind the camera on each tape, but confirmed that Walsh obtained the first seven tapes during his time in the Patriots’ video department, which ended after the 2002 Super Bowl.

The last tape, in September 2002 against the Chargers, was shot by someone else after Walsh left the video department for a job in the scouting department that ended in early 2003.

The Chargers tape shows raw footage, Levy said, of the San Diego coaches from the Patriots’ sideline, followed by a shot of the scoreboard showing time, down and distance. The tape contains no footage of actual plays during the game, only the sequence, which the Patriots could match to play tape.

The other seven tapes are more sophisticated. They show shots of the opposing coaches’ signals, followed immediately by a shot of the play, usually from the end zone camera, Levy said.

The tape from the A.F.C. championship game is the most extensive, showing two angles of each play.

Goodell has left open the possibility that additional evidence will lead to additional penalties against Coach Bill Belichick and the Patriots.

After the Jets game, Goodell levied a total of $750,000 in fines and docked the Patriots a first-round draft pick.

After this year’s Super Bowl, Goodell met with Specter and revealed for the first time that Belichick’s illegal signal filming dated to the beginning of his tenure with the Patriots, in 2000. Some accounts said Belichick admitted to taping defensive signals, others just signals in general.

At the Super Bowl, Goodell said of the Patriots’ practice of taping, “I don’t think it taints their accomplishments.”

Under Belichick, the Patriots rose from one of the league’s middling teams to its best, winning three Super Bowls in four seasons. Last season, they went undefeated until losing to the Giants in the Super Bowl.

Based on a win-loss tally from games after the ones on tapes provided by Walsh, the Patriots went 9-6 against the Dolphins after the first taping. They also went 12-1 against the Bills, 3-0 against the Browns, 4-1 against the Steelers and 3-1 against the Chargers. This included three victories and no defeats in the playoffs.

“We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a nonissue,” the Steelers chairman, Dan Rooney, said in a statement released in February.

Telephone messages to the five teams left Wednesday night were not answered.

Since Belichick’s first season in New England, when the Patriots finished 5-11, they have gone 86-26 in the regular season, a .768 winning percentage. It remains unclear whether the league will make the tapes public. During the initial investigation into the Patriots, the league accepted seven tapes gathered by the team, dating to 2006, while collecting a written promise that it possessed no more. The N.F.L. destroyed the tapes that the Patriots turned over.

Under the indemnity agreement, Walsh’s lawyer can keep one copy of each tape, but he cannot release it without the league’s consent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/sports/football/08nfl.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

JoeThomas
05-07-2008, 11:16 PM
wow, hit us both. i think belichick needs to be suspended and the owner as well. wow.

Black@Gold Forever32
05-07-2008, 11:23 PM
wow, hit us both. i think belichick needs to be suspended and the owner as well. wow.

It will never happen since Goodell is Robert Kraft's lap dog....

TEEMONT
05-07-2008, 11:34 PM
This is crap, if they NFL does nothing, well....i dont ****ing know, but its gonna suck.

ejsteeler
05-08-2008, 08:31 AM
More fines and possibly another pick or two, but not near enough if this turns out to be as bad as it sounds IMO.

Mike Tomlin
05-08-2008, 09:04 AM
We should let the SilverBack get a free shot a Tom Brady's knee, and make sure it's an extra late hit so theres no mistake about it LOL! If we don't someone will beat us to it. It's going to be tough on the Pats this year every NFL team will be head huntin when they play them.

TampaSteelGirl
05-08-2008, 09:44 AM
If they don't punish them severely it will leave others teams the idea of taping teams now with no consequences...:yellowthumb:

SteelerFan87
05-08-2008, 09:59 AM
If they don't punish them severely it will leave others teams the idea of taping teams now with no consequences...:yellowthumb:

Exactly.

Hey, if the Steelers were in position to win a SB, why not tape the other team's signals? If it means winning another SB, isn't that worth a fine the team can easily pay and the loss of a 1st round pick? Is a 1st round pick really worth more than a SB? Not a chance.

The typical Pats fan defense is that "everybody does it". Well, unless harsher penalties are handed out, there's no reason why everybody SHOULDN'T do it. Then what will the NFL do? Fine everybody? Take away every teams' 1st round picks? I don't think the players association would like having a whole round taken off the draft. And you can't suddenly say "well now we're going to have harsher punishments for whoever else does it" without punishing the Pats more, because that would be rather unfair and smacks of quite a bit of favoritism. The only way the NFL can put a stop to this, IMO, is to make an example of Belichick. Is protecting the hoodie and your buddy Bob Kraft really worth exacerbating this controversy and damaging the whole league, Goodell?

black an gold 4 life
05-08-2008, 11:21 AM
i knew it an the cheaters will get another slap on the wrist, **** the cheaters an roger goodell, they should have 2 give back there superbowl throphies, belicheat should b kicked out the league,an they should lose there number one pick 4 the next 2 years, an pay an heavy fine, i don't care what they claim i know they video taped both our afc championships games, an i bet they did the same 2 the rams, panthers, an eagles............the only question is why would they video tape the clowns?:scratch: that has 2 b an mistake:bluelol: they haven't been an threat since otto graham:lol:

Silverback 92
05-08-2008, 05:00 PM
Hate to say it but its gonna be another hand slap if anything NFL just wants this to go away quickly......

steelcityrockers
05-08-2008, 06:36 PM
The best ting to do would be a forced resignation or a suspension of Belichick. Granted, the Patriots = $$$$$ and the NFL in no way what so ever would take away potential money, so nada will come out of this.

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Apparently, the tapes were nothing so this is moot.

They were just game tapes. The Pats have already admitted to filming games since 2000.

This is the end of Spygate.

Iron City South
05-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Apparently, the tapes were nothing so this is moot.

They were just game tapes. The Pats have already admitted to filming games since 2000.

PURE USDA BULLSHIT .... :willybs: this is exactly what the league wants people to believe. I'm sure their PR Department is hard at work painting this as if the tapes really showed nothing. It's not a coincidence that they're not showing ANYBODYwhat's actually on them. :cursin:

Why do you think they couldn't wait to get their nasty hands on them? :cursin:

steelcityrockers
05-08-2008, 09:34 PM
Yah but Walsh didn't seem like a reputable cat anyway. I would not be surprised if it just was stealing defensive signals from games, which they have already been (loosely) repremanded for.

BlitzburghRockCity
05-08-2008, 10:25 PM
From what a talk radio show was saying today Senator Specter is closely monitoring this and wants to talk with Walsh and the NFL again now that the tapes are handed over.

My God I would love to see the NFL do the right thing and really stick it to the Pats and send a message once and for all.

KSSteelerfan
05-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Wouldn't that be great if the Cheatriots were heavily fined, lost some draft picks and were forced to forfeit some games? I would love it.......:clap:

DIESELMAN
05-09-2008, 12:15 AM
If this situation would've popped up years ago, it would've been taken care of the right way. In this day and age, money, power and back room deals are the going thing. I don't expect anything to happen and thats a shame cuz no matter how you slice it, cheating is cheating.

BlitzburghRockCity
05-09-2008, 05:57 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08130/880440-66.stm?cmpid=HBEHTML


Specter still skeptical; Steelers await results

NFL says tapes reveal nothing new

Friday, May 09, 2008
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
While the NFL said that videotapes turned over to it in the New England Patriots' spying scandal would reveal nothing new, Sen. Arlen Specter told the Post-Gazette last night that he's not ready to end his inquiry into the matter and that he remains skeptical.

The tapes might actually support the Patriots' contention that they turned all of their evidence of illegal taping over to the NFL.

Although an NFL spokesman said yesterday that league personnel have not yet reviewed the eight tapes, the New York Times reported they show questionable footage of five opponents in six games between the 2000 and 2002 seasons. The most extensive footage involved New England's victory in the AFC championship game against the Steelers in '02 at Heinz Field, the newspaper reported.

Because the Patriots previously acknowledged to the commissioner that they had illegally taped coaching signals in those games, they likely would face no further sanctions from the league.

"What we received [Wednesday] night is a list of the eight tapes that were delivered today," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told the Post-Gazette. "The list indicates that all eight tapes are of opposing coaches' signals, which is consistent with what we already know.

"There is no Rams walk-through tape on the list."

That latter bit of information might be the key to ending the drawn-out matter, which resulted in NFL commissioner Roger Goodell fining the Patriots $250,000 and coach Bill Belichick $500,000 last fall, when the illegal taping was first exposed. He also made New England forfeit a first-round pick in the 2008 draft.

Matt Walsh, a former Patriots video employee who turned over the eight tapes still in his possession, will meet Tuesday morning with Goodell to discuss the issue. Aiello said the commissioner will have a news conference after that meeting, but he did no know if the tapes would be made public.

Walsh then will meet with Specter, R-Pa., in Washington. Specter has been a vocal critic of the way the NFL has handled the case and remained so yesterday.

Specter hopes to find out the details of the taping and how far up in the Patriots organization they had knowledge of it.

"I want to get the specifics of what they did," he said. "From all indications they had the ground camera watching hand signals, and then compared that to the play that went right off. Later, they used that to watch the hand signals. I want to get details on how they gave that to the backup quarterback, who relayed it to the coach and then the quarterback on the field.

"I want to know who authorized it, who knew about it and how far up it went in the chain of command."

Specter said that "they keep changing the goal posts," that the scope of the illegal taping keeps widening in years and in the coverage. He said there's evidence on the new tapes that not only did the Patriots record opponent coach's defensive signals, but their offensive signals as well.

"Who would have gone to that much trouble if it didn't amount to much?" Specter said. "If a guy wasn't skeptical I don't think he'd be awake."

Specter said he's not sure whether he will call for a senate hearing or not, that he wants to hear Walsh first.

"I'm not going to make any judgment on that until I see how it goes. I think we have to take it a step at a time."

In an earlier statement, Specter said: "I think it is very unfortunate that the NFL has already started its 'nothing new' spin before watching the tapes or finding out what Mr. Matt Walsh has to say. Let's see where the evidence leads."

Walsh, now a club golf pro in Hawaii, stated in January that he had further evidence of wrongdoing by the Patriots. Shortly thereafter, the Boston Herald reported that the Patriots illegally taped the St. Louis Rams' walk-through practice the day before New England beat them in the Super Bowl in 2002.

Many assumed that report came from Walsh, but his lawyer, Michael Levy, told the New York Times that "Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough."

Walsh's January statements led to a nearly four-month negotiation between his lawyers and the NFL that resulted in the tapes being turned over this week. The league has indemnified Walsh against any lawsuits that might arise from member clubs because of his activity.

What is now widely known as Spygate came to the forefront when a Patriots video cameraman was caught in the act on the field in Giants Stadium of taping New York Jets coaches physically signalling plays on the sideline last fall, against NFL rules.

Goodell met with Belichick and other Patriots officials and they turned over tapes and notes that showed they had followed such procedures since 2000, claiming they did not know it violated any rules.

Goodell then meted his punishment and said if more violations turn up that were not revealed to him at that time by Belichick and the Patriots, he reserved the right to further discipline. The commissioner stated he also destroyed all the evidence.

Specter has criticized the NFL for destroying the evidence and has repeatedly called for Goodell to further explain why he did it. Goodell has said on several occasions there was no more use for the data and he did not want it to leak publicly. Specter has threatened to hold Senate hearings into the matter.

Steelers executives, along with former coach Bill Cowher, have said they do not believe any illegal taping had anything to do with any of their losses to the Patriots, who have admitted to illegally taping during four games against them, including both of their AFC championships at Heinz Field.

Yesterday, Steelers spokesman Dave Lockett said: "We're going to wait until the commissioner's investigation is complete. At that point we'll decide if we have any further comment."

Patriots spokesman Stacey James said, "We're withholding comment at this time."

This is a pivotal time for Goodell, if he just tries to push this under the rug it's liable to come back and bite him in the ***.

guessy
05-09-2008, 11:23 AM
Here's an article that says the Pats tapped the Steelers game in 2002. I hope the Commissioner increases the penalties for their actions. They also tapped Offensive plays from other teams too....


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=fish_mike&id=3387401

Forged in Steel
05-09-2008, 12:01 PM
Do you think that the "Rams Tape" was left out or destroyed before he sent them? That explains why the Patriots would agree to him doing this...

BR7
05-09-2008, 12:22 PM
Do you think that the "Rams Tape" was left out or destroyed before he sent them? That explains why the Patriots would agree to him doing this...

I was thinking the exact same thing. And how easy would it be for Walsh himself to destroy evidence? Too easy, IMO.

Preacher
05-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Here's an article that says the Pats tapped the Steelers game in 2002. I hope the Commissioner increases the penalties for their actions. They also tapped Offensive plays from other teams too....


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=fish_mike&id=3387401


It would be nice....

but it won't happen.

SteelerSteve
05-09-2008, 08:06 PM
Effers

steelcityrockers
05-09-2008, 11:36 PM
I say Spygate should just be forgotten about. It has dragged on way too much.

Iron City South
05-10-2008, 08:07 PM
Good for Specter for forcing the issue and keeping the spotlight on the NFL to see how they handle this .... I hope he jams a microscope up thier *** from now 'till eternity until they're forced to tell the truth and take action. :cursin:



Specter concerned with NFL's spygate take
By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, May 9, 2008

Senator Arlen Specter said Thursday he's concerned that the NFL has altered its story regarding the New England Patriots videotaping opposing coaches' play-calling signals in violation of league rules.

After former Patriots employee Matt Walsh agreed to turn over eight videotapes of five opponents in six games between 2000 and 2002 -- including a victory in the AFC Championship Game against the Steelers following the 2001 season -- a league spokesman said the information was "consistent'' with previous findings.

"I think it's kind of strange that they should say that before they see the tapes or hear Walsh,'' Specter told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "They originally said they only had them from '06 and '07. Then, they changed their story, having them back to 2000. Then, they said it was only defensive signals. Now, they've admitted it's offensive signals. They haven't explained why they destroyed the tapes or the notes. And their excuse is pretty flimsy.''

Specter said he's "particularly interested'' in New England's 24-17 win over the Steelers in the title game Jan. 27, 2002, at Heinz Field.

The tape from that game is the most detailed among the eight, featuring two angles of each play, the New York Times reported.
"The commissioner (Roger Goodell) had told me when I met with him that they had destroyed notes they had of the taping of the Steelers' game,'' Specter said. "The league has never explained why they destroyed the notes, just like they never explained why they destroyed the notes in the Jets' game (in the 2007 opener).''

Linebacker Larry Foote joined the Steelers the season after the championship game and started against the Patriots when the teams met in the title game three years later. He believes the Patriots may have gained an advantage by taping signals, but he doesn't know how much.

"If they know our defense, that's a big advantage,'' Foote said yesterday. "But we don't know the degree of it. We'll never know the degree of it.''

Walsh, who agreed to turn over the tapes and other evidence after reaching an agreement with the league, is scheduled to meet separately with Goodell and Specter next Tuesday.

"I'm looking to find out just exactly how they did it and the specifics of getting the signals on the sideline and then comparing it to the play,'' Specter said. "I want to know who authorized it and who all was involved.

"You could have the championship in question. You could have the outcome of the Steelers' game in question. You could have a serious impact on the reputations of the people who are supposed to be involved.''

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_566577.html

HUNT4SEVEN
05-10-2008, 10:16 PM
**** the cheaters an roger goodell, they r bed buddies nothing will happen 2 the cheaters, even though it's clear they cheated period!!!!!!!!!!!! this sucks an is bad 4 the NFl,I FEEL GOOD KNOWING THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD BEAT US IS BY CHEATING US............................the cheaters suck, this is what the cheaters, bill belicheat, an roger goodell deserve:2guns:

steelcityrockers
05-13-2008, 05:38 PM
From what was said today, I was right.

Nothing new. Case closed.

Hburg
05-13-2008, 11:28 PM
The NFL says there's nothing new in what Walsh turned in.....how do they know that? This has BS conspiracy written all over it.

The apathy expressed by Goodell and the league is unnerving to me. Goodell wants to sweep this under the rug so much he'll use a bulldozer if he has to......

BuFu

ejsteeler
05-14-2008, 09:26 AM
I hope it dies soon, I am so sick of hearing about it. I'm done with it.

Silverback 92
05-14-2008, 11:20 PM
Goodell has lost my respect , I thought he was gonna be the guy to clean up the NFL...Seems now like he picks and chooses what to clean up and what to ignore

TampaSteelGirl
05-15-2008, 12:13 PM
Goodell has lost my respect , I thought he was gonna be the guy to clean up the NFL...Seems now like he picks and chooses what to clean up and what to ignore

I agree however, I just wish it would end now! I'm sick of hearing about it and it's never going to change. I knew Goodell would say there is nothing new after his talk with Walsh. I truly don't think Walsh would have gone thru 4 months of delegating for his legal safety if he didn't think he really had something on them. Why would he waste his time? he was probably just as disgusted with Goodell as everyone is. I still think there is a tape of the Rams/Pats walkthru somewhere. Why else would Walsh be standing on the sidelines in his Pats jersey??? Someone, somewhere was taping that walkthru. As far as Spector, he's now making an arse out of himself. Nothing is ever going to change Goodell's mind so it's useless to..:deadhorse:
So what's the use? We all got screwed and we can't take any of those games back. I will have to say I don't know how those tapes would have helped much though. Dont they need to be reviewed in detail to use, so how could they do that while he's taping?

Forged in Steel
05-16-2008, 01:04 AM
RG is a crappy commish.

HughC
05-18-2008, 01:44 AM
I don't know, it's impossible to say how much those tapes helped. Doesn't seem like it's any more than regular game tape would provide as far as knowing what play is coming. I think we lost due to crappy special teams play, not because they knew the defense. Belichick should have been suspended for probably four games back in September but I can't see doing that now, there's nothin new. Walsh is coming across as a bitter man trying to get revenge on the company that fired him.

BlitzburghRockCity
06-06-2008, 06:34 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08158/887907-66.stm?cmpid=HBEHTML

Specter is still pushing the NFL to do an investigation. Arlen is a very respectable individual in Washington, if he pushes this issue long enough and congress gets involved this might get interesting.

steelcityrockers
06-06-2008, 05:11 PM
I say it is over with. The only thing they could really get them for is practicing players on IR. The tapes are pretty much irrelevant now.