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View Full Version : Bruce Arians/Mike Tomlin



yinzer
03-16-2008, 09:01 AM
I don't think anybody would argue that there were questionable offensive calls made last season that negatively affected the outcome of a few games. (I realize there were a few defensive breakdowns as well but this thread is about the offensive impacts) For example, Spaeth was literally tearing it up the first 3-4 games. Then, he was taken out of the equation almost entirely. What kind of OFFENSIVE changes would everybody like to see? I know Tomlin is a defense guy but do yinz think he will be more active in the play calling?

K Train
03-16-2008, 09:04 AM
give arians a break....like any other position there is a learning curve to go through, the play calling will be better next year. spaeth will be much more involved and the only big change i need to see is the offensive line....SO we can move those big TEs out into the secondary, cause they have to stay and block when you have **** for an oline

yinzer
03-16-2008, 09:08 AM
give arians a break....like any other position there is a learning curve to go through, the play calling will be better next year. spaeth will be much more involved and the only big change i need to see is the offensive line....SO we can move those big TEs out into the secondary, cause they have to stay and block when you have shiat for an oline

O-line needs built for sure. i still haven't decided whether or not i'm going to "give arians a break" yet. i'm not going to say his first season with us is completely forgivable but we'll see how he does this season.

K Train
03-16-2008, 09:26 AM
dropping staff after a playoff season is not the way to go....you cant win it all every year. Ben had a breakout year under arians, a breakout year with **** to block for him....not "forgiving" arians is retarded....many more teams have it worse than we do

Fan Of STEEL
03-16-2008, 09:29 AM
I'd like to see the Steelers use 3 TEs and get them more involved in the passing game. I'd also like to see two RBs line up behind Ben, one being FWP, the other a bruiser. Keep the defenses guessing.

yinzer
03-16-2008, 09:38 AM
dropping staff after a playoff season is not the way to go....you cant win it all every year. Ben had a breakout year under arians, a breakout year with shiat to block for him....not "forgiving" arians is retarded....many more teams have it worse than we do

ben did have a breakout year. i think that was just a matter of time. but i'm not bashing arians. i just wanted everybody's opinions on general offensive schemes and tomlin's input.

DIESELMAN
03-16-2008, 09:39 AM
This is Tomlins 2nd year, I'm sure he learned a lot last year as far as his coaches and players. He has a different approach then Cowher had and its going to take more then 1 year for the players and coaches to get on the same page. Arians, considering the OL play and a few bonehead calls still helped produce Bens great year. I'm sure there will be adjustments made but to revert to Cowhers style of coaching isn't Tomlins style.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-16-2008, 10:30 AM
This is a pivotal year for Bruce and the offense. If they continue to make strides and get better like they did in 2007 then we might have just found ourselves with one helluva coordinator but if the offense just stays the course or digresses in the play calling or performance on the field then the leash on Bruce becomes much shorter.

BRICKTOWN BEAST
03-16-2008, 10:45 AM
I'd just like to see us draft owen schmitt and pound the ball in the running game which we always have done. We passed way too much that year and it defenitley showed our weaknesses in the passing game (O-LINE!). i dont mind passing espicially with ben as our quarterback but Id rather see us run more and so does Tomlin because thats what he said when he got here

SteelerSal
03-16-2008, 11:01 AM
For example, Spaeth was literally tearing it up the first 3-4 games. Then, he was taken out of the equation almost entirely.




Spaeth, in his defense, was injured after the third game and was never at 100% till the last few games of the season.

I know, I had him early in the year on my fantasy team and had to drop him.

kgreen
03-16-2008, 11:33 AM
No way around it, the playcalling sucked. Hopefully it will be better. :helmet:

JensK
03-16-2008, 11:45 AM
No way around it, the playcalling sucked. Hopefully it will be better. :helmet:

Some did. I think its wrong to call out all of the playcalls. If Bruce hadnt called those few bad plays against the jags, i don't think we would have been arguing this as much. Yes, there was a few bad calls at some bad times. I believe you can blame experiance there. Give them a season or two to get all the differend plays set, and get a stable O-line, and then i think we'll see those "bad" playcalls turning into good playcalls!

K Train
03-16-2008, 11:57 AM
No way around it, the playcalling sucked. Hopefully it will be better. :helmet:

i think you should call the plays!

Fan Of STEEL
03-16-2008, 12:19 PM
No way around it, the playcalling sucked. Hopefully it will be better. :helmet:


Well if getting to the playoffs with that playcalling is supposed to be looked at as sucking..... I look forward to what will happen this season. Tomlin/Ariens accomplished what they did with the STEELERS on their first season and the result was better than what Cowher did the season before. There were some poor plays called, but Cowher had his share of them, especially in post season play.

steelcitysfinestXL
03-16-2008, 12:23 PM
I'd like to see us mix the run with holmes,ward, and nate running more underneath routes early in the game, let heath stretch the field. Ben can get a rhythm throwing 5-10 yard ins/out/slants and i think Santonio and Ward are best after they get the ball in their hands!!!
When the D moves 8 in the box , thn we can try some deep play action!! As much is a hated some of Bruces play calling parker and Ben had career years so its hard to argue with results!!!!

Black@Gold Forever32
03-16-2008, 12:29 PM
I'd like to see us mix the run with holmes,ward, and nate running more underneath routes early in the game, let heath stretch the field. Ben can get a rhythm throwing 5-10 yard ins/out/slants and i think Santonio and Ward are best after they get the ball in their hands!!!
When the D moves 8 in the box , thn we can try some deep play action!! As much is a hated some of Bruces play calling parker and Ben had career years so its hard to argue with results!!!!


I agree with you on the underneath routes....Would allow Ben to get in a rhythm and help the OL to....Really the quick slant should be a staple in this offense....Especially with Holmes, he gets a crease and he is to the house for 6.......:yellowthumb:

black an gold 4 life
03-16-2008, 12:32 PM
this is why i would focuse on defense this year even with the o-line we had last year we were basicly n every game, if we have better blocking from the o-line we will b ok on offense...............but we need 2 upgrade the c.b's postions an safeties an add depth 2 the d-line, i like arians the 1st half of the year the second half he had an bill coward relapse, i think tomlin will have more hands on with the offensive play calling this year, tomlin himself said he was adjusting 2 the new role as head coach, we will b stronger this year i just hope we sign hartwig an the safety that came n fri, an if we get that o-line 2 gether an the tight ends more envolved both of them matt an heath, man we can seriously compete next year.......................remember this was an rookie coach we had so he was getting an feel of our strength an weaknesses,on the offensives side an the defensives side an the coahces as well, but he has 2 fix the problem of our so called special teams, with the adjustments we will b n place 2 compete 4 an superbowl run next year.....

Fan Of STEEL
03-16-2008, 12:40 PM
As much is a hated some of Bruces play calling parker and Ben had career years so its hard to argue with results!!!!

No doubt.



[QUOTE=black an gold 4 life;191557]this is why i would focuse on defense this year even with the o-line we had last year we were basicly n every game, if we have better blocking from the o-line we will b ok on offense...............but we need 2 upgrade the c.b's postions an safeties an add depth 2 the d-line[QUOTE]

It is true that we were in most games last season but Ben taking that many hits is not a good thing for a QB that you want to stay healthy. Since we lost Faneca (even though he lost a step) we need to replace him and add some depth. The O-line has to be a focus first, then the defensive line.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-16-2008, 12:51 PM
this is why i would focuse on defense this year even with the o-line we had last year we were basicly n every game, if we have better blocking from the o-line we will b ok on offense...............but we need 2 upgrade the c.b's postions an safeties an add depth 2 the d-line, i like arians the 1st half of the year the second half he had an bill coward relapse, i think tomlin will have more hands on with the offensive play calling this year, tomlin himself said he was adjusting 2 the new role as head coach, we will b stronger this year i just hope we sign hartwig an the safety that came n fri, an if we get that o-line 2 gether an the tight ends more envolved both of them matt an heath, man we can seriously compete next year.......................remember this was an rookie coach we had so he was getting an feel of our strength an weaknesses,on the offensives side an the defensives side an the coahces as well, but he has 2 fix the problem of our so called special teams, with the adjustments we will b n place 2 compete 4 an superbowl run next year.....

The corners are fine......If the Steelers can get a consistent pass rush going then that will make the secondary better as a whole.....I do think the Steelers do need a game changing corner....But those are hard to come by.....

As for the safety position...Really its up to Troy to start playing at the level like he was playing in 04/05......Another factor is Ryan Clark's health......If healthy Clark is a solid player....Anthony Smith is still a young/talented player and he just needs to put last year behind him....I'm not ready to give up on Smith....As for Donnie Nickey the S that came for a visit....He is just a special teams player really...Plus there is still Tyrone Carter...He is a good backup but he is aging.....Something to keep an eye on with him.....

kgreen
03-16-2008, 01:06 PM
i think you should call the plays!

Maybe I should. I wouldn't freakin call a QB sweep on a 3rd and 6 or 8 to get the first! Arians is a bum and I will say his play calling sucks until I am proven wrong.

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We tried way too much ot hit a big play instead of doing what we have to not what we want to. We're not at that stage yet. I agree with some of what you guys are saying with some underneath routes. Going to Heath and Spaeth might help. And we need to quit the double moves. They never work unless you have an underneath passing game.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-16-2008, 01:11 PM
Maybe I should. I wouldn't freakin call a QB sweep on a 3rd and 6 or 8 to get the first! Arians is a bum and I will say his play calling sucks until I am proven wrong.

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We tried way too much ot hit a big play instead of doing what we have to not what we want to. We're not at that stage yet. I agree with some of what you guys are saying with some underneath routes. Going to Heath and Spaeth might help. And we need to quit the double moves. They never work unless you have an underneath passing game.

The QB sweep on 3rd and 6 was terrible....I also have some doubts about Bruce Arians as an OC.....But I'm willing to give him more then one season before saying he sucks....Ben seems to like Bruce Arians...To me thats important.....

kgreen
03-16-2008, 01:17 PM
The QB sweep on 3rd and 6 was terrible....I also have some doubts about Bruce Arians as an OC.....But I'm willing to give him more then one season before saying he sucks....Ben seems to like Bruce Arians...To me thats important.....

I mean its just my opinion. We had more balance under Cowher/Whiz so far than Tomlin/Arians. I just don't think Arians style is right for the Burgh. He goes for it all way too often. I need to see more balance for my mind ot change.

Black@Gold Forever32
03-16-2008, 01:37 PM
I mean its just my opinion. We had more balance under Cowher/Whiz so far than Tomlin/Arians. I just don't think Arians style is right for the Burgh. He goes for it all way too often. I need to see more balance for my mind ot change.

We had more balance under Cowher/Whiz?.......Cowher was never balanced...lol Mostly in his time as HC it was just his power running game except for the few years when the team went pass happy with Tommy Maddox in 02/03.....That was my complaint with Cowher he was never balanced...lol

I like a balanced offense......I don't like relying on the run to much but I also don't like relying on the pass to much also....But interesting thing about Cowher...Both times he made it to the Super Bowl the passing game was huge in the Steelers getting there....

In 95 the Steelers had a good running game with Morris/Pegram.....But O'Donnell throwing to 5 WRs all year was huge in that team making it to the Super Bowl.....That was a fun season and yes that wasn't a great group of WR's but that core of Thigpen,Hastings, Mills, Johnson and Stewart still made plays all year for that team....O'Donnell also had his best year as a Pro that year...

In the 05 play-offs...Cowher opening up the offense was huge that year and was a big reason why the Steelers made it to the Super Bowl which they went on to win....

As for Arians last year to me he had mixed reviews......But I also don't put the whole blame on him...The OL stinks and an improved OL would help this greatly especially when the team has a lead and they can kill the clock...At times last year the team struggled in that area....But thats not Arians fault if he doesn't have the hogs up front to block....

yinzer
03-16-2008, 02:06 PM
I agree with you on the underneath routes....Would allow Ben to get in a rhythm and help the OL to....Really the quick slant should be a staple in this offense....Especially with Holmes, he gets a crease and he is to the house for 6.......:yellowthumb:

i was waiting for someone to say it!! underneath routes are huge for us! one of the biggest gripes i had was the constant calling of hook patterns.

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i personally don't mind ben throwing a lot. he's definitely proved he can throw in the pocket, under pressure, and on the move. i think willie needs a solid FB to run behind. would love to see heath get into a groove again too.

kgreen
03-16-2008, 05:46 PM
We had more balance under Cowher/Whiz?.......Cowher was never balanced...lol Mostly in his time as HC it was just his power running game except for the few years when the team went pass happy with Tommy Maddox in 02/03.....That was my complaint with Cowher he was never balanced...lol

I like a balanced offense......I don't like relying on the run to much but I also don't like relying on the pass to much also....But interesting thing about Cowher...Both times he made it to the Super Bowl the passing game was huge in the Steelers getting there....

In 95 the Steelers had a good running game with Morris/Pegram.....But O'Donnell throwing to 5 WRs all year was huge in that team making it to the Super Bowl.....That was a fun season and yes that wasn't a great group of WR's but that core of Thigpen,Hastings, Mills, Johnson and Stewart still made plays all year for that team....O'Donnell also had his best year as a Pro that year...

In the 05 play-offs...Cowher opening up the offense was huge that year and was a big reason why the Steelers made it to the Super Bowl which they went on to win....

As for Arians last year to me he had mixed reviews......But I also don't put the whole blame on him...The OL stinks and an improved OL would help this greatly especially when the team has a lead and they can kill the clock...At times last year the team struggled in that area....But thats not Arians fault if he doesn't have the hogs up front to block....


Was Whiz our OC in 03? No. We were balanced when Whiz got there. You can't deny that. I blame Arians partly because he never called the right plays. If it were any other team, then there is no way they make the playoffs. The only reason we did was because of talent. When you have a problem with the OL then you throw short, timing paterns. It helps keep the offense in rythm and it prevents sacks. The reason Ben got sacked was because:
A) The O-Line was bad
B) Ben tried to make too many big plays If someone would teach him what a check down is then wouldn't be as big a problem.
C) The playcalling was (I'll be generous) inconsistant at best Calling for long, drawn out passing plays was not the answer for a bad o-line. I'm not saying switch to a west-coast offense, but try shorter patterns to keep Ben out of trouble. A lot of his interceptions were down the field throws so that means something may have been there underneath. I could be wrong though. Another thing that would help would be to add more I-Forms, Power I's or anything with a FB. Running from these singleback formations does not help a bad O-line. A big, bad FB that can block does. Krieder was a great FB, I'm not sold on Carey Davis. He's a good pass catching reciever, but only average as a blocker.

Now I did like the fact that Arians was willing to "open it up" last year, but I don't like the way he did it. A strong O-line helps, but good playcalling can sometimes overcome that. We have to be smart in our playcalling this year. We have to fix that O-line and teach Ben how ot check down. He did it sometimes in 2005 especially in the playoffs.

DIESELMAN
03-16-2008, 05:57 PM
The style of our offense needs to be dictated by our personnel. I'll be one of the first ones to say I love the old smash mouth, bust everybody in the chops offense, but that was then and this is now. We've got a fast back, who only knows how to run fast, hes learning but thats what we got. We also have probably the biggest and close to most athletic group of TE's in the league. We've got Mr. Clutch....Hines Ward, Mr. Slant and I'm off to a TD if we use it more and we have an OL, thats 1 or 2 players away from being a good line that will stabilize our offense. Last but not least after years and years and years of gut wrenching QB play, we have our franchise QB. A gunslinger, a guy who doesn't always use his head but has the guts to try and make things happen. The mother ****er who in his 2nd year brought the Steelers a long awaited Lombardi. So if I'm a OC and even the HC, I'm looking at who I got, their strengths and weaknesses and base our offense to them. I'm not going to try and be something that used to work or something thats working somewhere else in the league. I'm going to establish our own identity, and that guys is what we're missing. :2cents:

Black@Gold Forever32
03-16-2008, 07:35 PM
Was Whiz our OC in 03? No. We were balanced when Whiz got there. You can't deny that. I blame Arians partly because he never called the right plays. If it were any other team, then there is no way they make the playoffs. The only reason we did was because of talent. When you have a problem with the OL then you throw short, timing paterns. It helps keep the offense in rythm and it prevents sacks. The reason Ben got sacked was because:
A) The O-Line was bad
B) Ben tried to make too many big plays If someone would teach him what a check down is then wouldn't be as big a problem.
C) The playcalling was (I'll be generous) inconsistant at best Calling for long, drawn out passing plays was not the answer for a bad o-line. I'm not saying switch to a west-coast offense, but try shorter patterns to keep Ben out of trouble. A lot of his interceptions were down the field throws so that means something may have been there underneath. I could be wrong though. Another thing that would help would be to add more I-Forms, Power I's or anything with a FB. Running from these singleback formations does not help a bad O-line. A big, bad FB that can block does. Krieder was a great FB, I'm not sold on Carey Davis. He's a good pass catching reciever, but only average as a blocker.

Now I did like the fact that Arians was willing to "open it up" last year, but I don't like the way he did it. A strong O-line helps, but good playcalling can sometimes overcome that. We have to be smart in our playcalling this year. We have to fix that O-line and teach Ben how ot check down. He did it sometimes in 2005 especially in the playoffs.

I didn't say Whiz was the OC in 03....lol I was talking about Cowher in general....But even with Whiz the Steelers were still just a power running team...Until the 05 play-offs when they finally opened the offense up....

I guess you missed the part were it was talked about in this thread about using more shorter routes..lol Plus I guess you missed were I also said I had mixed reviews on Arians...I'm just willing to give him one more year before saying he sucks...lol

yinzer
03-16-2008, 08:49 PM
The style of our offense needs to be dictated by our personnel. I'll be one of the first ones to say I love the old smash mouth, bust everybody in the chops offense, but that was then and this is now. We've got a fast back, who only knows how to run fast, hes learning but thats what we got. We also have probably the biggest and close to most athletic group of TE's in the league. We've got Mr. Clutch....Hines Ward, Mr. Slant and I'm off to a TD if we use it more and we have an OL, thats 1 or 2 players away from being a good line that will stabilize our offense. Last but not least after years and years and years of gut wrenching QB play, we have our franchise QB. A gunslinger, a guy who doesn't always use his head but has the guts to try and make things happen. The mother ****er who in his 2nd year brought the Steelers a long awaited Lombardi. So if I'm a OC and even the HC, I'm looking at who I got, their strengths and weaknesses and base our offense to them. I'm not going to try and be something that used to work or something thats working somewhere else in the league. I'm going to establish our own identity, and that guys is what we're missing. :2cents:

couldn't have said it better myself. :plus1:

BlitzburghRockCity
03-16-2008, 08:59 PM
Cowher teams were almost never balanced :lol: as BG32 said we were soley a run first, 3 yds and a cloud of dust type of offense for most of the time. That was party BC's philosophy but also partly because we never had consistent play at the QB position. Look at the players BC had to work with during his era, it's no wonder we sputtered in the passing game most of the time. That SB XXX run in 1995 was an amazing year of balanced offense and the core of WR's we had just flat out made plays nearly all year long even with Neil hanging them out to try time after time with high and off the mark throws. Bam Morris was on fire, the OL was blocking and the defense was flat out dominating. That year was one of the few times a Cowher team was ever balanced.

A new era in Pittsburgh is definitely upon us and as Diesel mentioned we have a different running game now, more weapons on offense and QB that can lead this team, now all that's left is 5 solid hogs up front and the sky is really the limit for this unit.