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View Full Version : Specter: Patriots Taped the Steelers Twice in 04***Update 2/15 now 4 times total !!



Deb
02-13-2008, 11:48 PM
Senator Specter Says the Patriots Taped the Steelers Twice During 04 http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/sports.aol.com/fanhouse/media/2008/02/rodney-harrison-04-021308.jpg

Well, it looks like Senator Arlen Specter didn't get around (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/01/goodell-explains-why-the-nfl-destroyed-evidence-specter-probab/) to talking about the NFL's antitrust exemption during today's meet-and-greet with commissioner Roger Goodell (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/RogerGoodell/). As Michael David Smith wrote earlier (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/roger-goodell-arlen-specter-say-bill-belichick-has-taped-patrio/), Specter learned that the Patriots have been videotaping opponents since 2000, something that wasn't clear when the league concluded its investigation in September.

In a post-meeting press conference, Specter elaborated. The senator said that "there were notes showing that the Steelers games had been taped." Specifically, two contests during the 2004 season: one on Oct. 31, and the other, the AFC Championship, on Jan. 27.

A couple of things worth pointing out: Pittsburgh smoked the Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=27021&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2004&week=REG8) in the first meeting, 34-20, sacking Tom Brady (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/TomBrady/) four times and picking him off twice. Three months later, the two teams met in the conference finals. Unsurprisingly (in hindsight), the Patriots won 41-27, and Brady, sacked just twice in the rematch, finished 14 of 21 for 207 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions.

Did New England gain an advantage from having videotaped Pittsburgh during the teams' first meeting? There isn't enough evidence to say that, yes, unequivocally the Patriots won because they had the Steelers' defensive signals. But it would also be na´ve to suggest that having access to that information had no bearing on the outcome. If that were true, Matthew Estrella (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MatthewEstrella/) (and Matt Walsh (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MattWalsh/) before him) wouldn't have had a job.

Either way, this doesn't do much for the Patriots' legacy as one of the best teams in NFL history, and it doesn't do much for Roger Goodell's credibility.

I also wonder if Bill Cowher (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BillCowher/) might want to reconsider his earlier thoughts (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/16/cowher-doesnt-think-belichick-cheated-during-afc-championship-g/) on the Steelers' other AFC Championship game against the Patriots.

LINK (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/senator-specter-says-the-patriots-taped-the-steelers-twice-durin/#cont)

K Train
02-14-2008, 12:59 AM
i cant help but think the senator of our great state should have more pressing issues on his desk

HUNT4SEVEN
02-14-2008, 01:25 AM
again roger goodell an the cheaters suck plain an simple...........

BlitzburghRockCity
02-14-2008, 07:11 AM
i cant help but think the senator of our great state should have more pressing issues on his desk

Specter has been around forever and is involved in so many issues at any one time that I don't doubt his dedication to our own states needs. He's quite the multi tasker ;) Today's sports, all of them, are involved in some type of criminal activity so it's almost inevitable that the government is going to step in. Im not saying I like it but it's a reality now and will be in the future.

As far as the Patriots go, they are the Cheatriots and any legacy as a dynasty in NFL history is bogus.

Ambridge
02-14-2008, 08:59 AM
i cant help but think the senator of our great state should have more pressing issues on his desk


I heard a comment on ESPN Radio that supposedly Specter has a large interest in Comcast Communications and that this is a way for Specter to open the door to influence Goodell to make the NFL Network accessable to regular cable as well as to loosen DirecTV's stranglehold on the satellite packages.

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As far as the Patriots go, they are the Cheatriots and any legacy as a dynasty in NFL history is bogus.
:clap:

BlitzburghRockCity
02-14-2008, 09:15 AM
I heard a comment on ESPN Radio that supposedly Specter has a large interest in Comcast Communications and that this is a way for Specter to open the door to influence Goodell to make the NFL Network accessable to regular cable as well as to loosen DirecTV's stranglehold on the satellite packages.

Never say our government doesn't have a hidden agenda..LOL..atleast in that case if it is true it's a good thing for everybody who doesn't have dish. :greengrin:

Deb
02-14-2008, 10:19 AM
If what they are saying is true...then it affects Belichicks entire Patriot career regardless. Now its like everything they stand for as far as dynasty.....wins.....means nothing. Or will eventually.

Iron City South
02-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Now coming to the realization that the Pats, in all likelyhood illegally taped us since 2000, especially in 2004 when we were heavily favored to beat them, chaps my *** beyond words can even describe. To this day I still try to hide the pain and disappointment I felt knowing we lost those 2 divisional championships to them. Now I come to realize that my pain was all a result of their cheating.

I vividly remember after we lost to them, Hines Ward and a few other players came out and said immediately after the game, "It was almost as if they knew exactly what play we were going to call" ..... well now, I wonder why?

..... Motherfu<king FRAUDS! :yesnod:

Here's the video of Spector:

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=eab2d80d-5008-481d-980f-dcc11c080cfc

BlitzburghRockCity
02-14-2008, 12:25 PM
I'd bet money there's more to this now than ever than meets the eye. If the government wants to investigate this you can bet your last dollar this happened time and time again during this "amazing patriot dynasty" era. :cursin: :barf:


how convenient is it that the NFL didn't divulge any of this information during their investigation before..and now they want to sweep it under the rug. I hope congress goes after Goodell, Belicheat & Kraft and throws the book at em!

swissvale72
02-14-2008, 12:36 PM
Now coming to the realization that the Pats, in all likelyhood illegally taped us since 2000, especially in 2004 when we were heavily favored to beat them, chaps my *** beyond words can even describe. To this day I still try to hide the pain and disappointment I felt knowing we lost those 2 divisional championships to them. Now I come to realize that my pain was all a result of their cheating.

I vividly remember after we lost to them, Hines Ward and a few other players came out and said immediately after the game, "It was almost as if they knew exactly what play we were going to call" ..... well now, I wonder why?

..... Motherfu<king FRAUDS! :yesnod:

Here's the video of Spector:

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=eab2d80d-5008-481d-980f-dcc11c080cfc


Problem with the Hines Ward comment is this. Everything thus far (aside from the SB walk through) contends that the Pats were taping teams' defensive signals. That wouldn't help them know which plays the Steelers O would run.

Further....the '01 game evidenced little NE offensive prowess as two of their 3 TDs were on runbacks. And, it seemed as though their defensive success had much to do with lining up a DE over Jerame Tuman and kicking his *** all day long.

The '04 AFCCG.....may have been a different story.

Don't get me wrong. I despise these MFers, and I see no reason why the Commish destroyed the tapes, sounds like bullshite to me. I hope they get hit hard again with further penalties....but I have to wonder if they really gained much of an advantage.

Ambridge
02-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Problem with the Hines Ward comment is this. Everything thus far (aside from the SB walk through) contends that the Pats were taping teams' defensive signals. That wouldn't help them know which plays the Steelers O would run.

Further....the '01 game evidenced little NE offensive prowess as two of their 3 TDs were on runbacks. And, it seemed as though their defensive success had much to do with lining up a DE over Jerame Tuman and kicking his *** all day long.

The '04 AFCCG.....may have been a different story.

Don't get me wrong. I despise these MFers, and I see no reason why the Commish destroyed the tapes, sounds like bullshiate to me. I hope they get hit hard again with further penalties....but I have to wonder if they really gained much of an advantage.

At this point no one knows the full story.
The Pats could have very well taped offense as well as defense.

I keep hearing people defend the Pats by saying "They couldn't have gained enough info from the tapes to stop every play" This is all well and very true but all they have to do is decipher enough signals that can effect 3-5 plays per game and that is a HUGE advantage.
Enough of an advantage that can cause a fumble...interception or a big defensive stop on a cruial series of downs.

The Pats thought they were going to be slick and pull a fast one-Sorry!!
Goodell better be very careful how he handles this situation or it could blow up in his face.

Iron City South
02-14-2008, 01:58 PM
Problem with the Hines Ward comment is this. Everything thus far (aside from the SB walk through) contends that the Pats were taping teams' defensive signals. That wouldn't help them know which plays the Steelers O would run.

Further....the '01 game evidenced little NE offensive prowess as two of their 3 TDs were on runbacks. And, it seemed as though their defensive success had much to do with lining up a DE over Jerame Tuman and kicking his *** all day long.

The '04 AFCCG.....may have been a different story.

I forget if Hines was saying that about offense or if he was just mimicking what Joey Porter and a few of our other Defenseive guys were coming off the field saying. I vividly remember Peezy saying they knew what we were going to do on Defense.

swissvale72
02-14-2008, 02:37 PM
I forget if Hines was saying that about offense or if he was just mimicking what Joey Porter and a few of our other Defenseive guys were coming off the field saying. I vividly remember Peezy saying they knew what we were going to do on Defense.

Again, not defending these f#@%@, but I think the "they knew everything we were doing" thing was after the '01 AFCCG. Pats O drove for only 10 points that day, and Peezy couldn't hold onto a potential pick that would have tied the game.

Goodell's explanation of his rationale for destroying the tapes made no sense....left one wondering if one had heard him correctly.

The smug-*** Boston news anchors, once the sporsts guy is done reporting this story, ask with exasperaton..."Are we all done with this now?" I"m outta my seat calling 'em every MFer know to man.

Silverback 92
02-14-2008, 05:39 PM
Turns out sweat shirt Bill a better cheater than coach I guess...Now those SBs they won are meaningles

BR7
02-14-2008, 06:07 PM
eidt:

oops.. didn't see the news conference vid link in the other thread :duh: :D

SteelCityMan786
02-14-2008, 06:14 PM
I'd love for the record books to say this

AFC Champions
2002-Pittsburgh Steelers
2003-Oakland Raiders
2004-None Awarded
2005-Pittsburgh Steelers
2006-Pittsburgh Steelers
2007-Indianapolis Colts
2008-None Awarded

That would look real nice. After all we should have 7 super Bowls

XXXVI-Pittsburgh Steelers
XXXVII-Tampa Bay Buccaneers
XXXVIII-None Awarded
XXXIX-Pittsburgh Steelers
XL-Pittsburgh Steelers
XLI-Indianpolis Colts
XLII-New York Giants

Forged in Steel
02-14-2008, 06:17 PM
YES! Finnaly some s*it got out about this. The 2004 Steelers season was by far the Steelers best year (15-1). It was also my favorite season of theirs. There was no way the Patriots were going to beat them, the Steelers were going to the Super Bowl and it was going to be sweet. F*cking cheater f*ggot p*ssies.

TampaSteelGirl
02-14-2008, 06:23 PM
Now coming to the realization that the Pats, in all likelyhood illegally taped us since 2000, especially in 2004 when we were heavily favored to beat them, chaps my *** beyond words can even describe. To this day I still try to hide the pain and disappointment I felt knowing we lost those 2 divisional championships to them. Now I come to realize that my pain was all a result of their cheating.

I vividly remember after we lost to them, Hines Ward and a few other players came out and said immediately after the game, "It was almost as if they knew exactly what play we were going to call" ..... well now, I wonder why?

..... Motherfu<king FRAUDS! :yesnod:

Here's the video of Spector:

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=eab2d80d-5008-481d-980f-dcc11c080cfc

I agree!!! I cried for 3 days after this loss!! We lost Plax after this game! I just knew something wasnt right!!

Ambridge
02-14-2008, 06:53 PM
The more I start thinking about this whole deal the more I hope Arlen Specter keeps digging and doesn't let Goodell off the hook.

I have no doubt Goodell thinks he's going to "Stonewall" his way through this situation and that it's just going to go away.
It's a shame that the government has to force a league commissioner to be open with the truth about the sport he governs.
The "Tip of the Iceberg" has been exposed and I think fans of the NFL are entitled to the facts.

Belichick has been pulling these Shenanigans since 2000??......he deserves immediate termination from "Jerkoff" Kraft and banned from the NFL for life.

Black@Gold Forever32
02-14-2008, 06:59 PM
The two special teams TDs and Kordell's sorry *** had more to do with the Steelers loss in the 01 title game...

In 2004 Ben being a rookie and playing poorly....Plus Plax dropping a TD in the endzone were main reasons the Steelers loss...Plus Cowher also just pounding the ball with Bettis on a 4th and 1 early in that game was huge swing in momentum for the Pats....Also Cowher choosing to kick a field goal instead of going for a TD late in that game was another mistake...

You guys whining about Spy Gate for the reasons the Steelers loss sounds like sour grapes to me...lol

Really who knows how many other teams have taped other throughout the years.....

BlitzburghRockCity
02-14-2008, 08:49 PM
Yeah there were many reasons we lost those games, many of which you mentioned but the fact that they did tape and when we did try and run plays there were all over us was just as much us not executing as it was them maybe knowing things about our formations and plays ahead of time.

Either way it still sucks and yes I am sour about it..LOL

Ambridge
02-14-2008, 09:01 PM
Yeah there were many reasons we lost those games, many of which you mentioned but the fact that they did tape and when we did try and run plays there were all over us was just as much us not executing as it was them maybe knowing things about our formations and plays ahead of time.

:rockon:

Black@Gold Forever32
02-14-2008, 09:23 PM
Yeah there were many reasons we lost those games, many of which you mentioned but the fact that they did tape and when we did try and run plays there were all over us was just as much us not executing as it was them maybe knowing things about our formations and plays ahead of time.

Either way it still sucks and yes I am sour about it..LOL

I just think overall thats whats really wrong with sports and everything in this country anymore...:lol: We always want to point fingers and make excuses instead of looking at what we did wrong....The Pussifacation Of America is in full effect...lol

The Steelers should have beaten the Pats in 01 and only have themselves to blame....Two special team TDs given up by the Steelers special teams was just embarrassing.....I really don't think Spy Gate had any effect on those TDs.......

The punt return TD happened on a repunt if I recall thanks to a Steelers player running out of bounds and then coming back in to make the tackle....The blocked field goal shouldn't have happened also....Steelers only have themselves to blame there as well...

Kordell sucked in that game also which was his usual performance in play-off games...lol

As for the 04 game....Ben being a rookie has much to do with the out come in that game.....There are reasons why rookie QBs don't lead to teams to Super Bowls and that showed in that game....

Cowher running the ball with Bettis on that 4th and 1 early in that game was just stupid....Of course the Pats would have known that...That is so obvious...lol Play action pass would have been the better call or QB sneak....

Cowher kicking a field goal instead of going for a TD late that game also was stupid.....Of course Plax dropping a TD was huge....

The Steelers just made so many mistakes in both games for me to totally blame spy gate as the reason why they lost......The Pats did break the rules and continued to do so after being told to stop...So I agree they should have been punished and think they should have been punished more for their arrogance....But still like I said I can't blame spy gate for the out come of those games....lol

BlitzburghRockCity
02-14-2008, 09:37 PM
Trust me Im not saying their taping the games and knowing our calls and formations was the sole reason they won...on the contrary we beat ourselves with the ST blunders and dropped passes. Cowher's teams had a history of choking in big games and those were just a few instances; SB XXX , the playoff game against the Titans , the playoff games against Denver, etc. this list goes on and on so yeah we know we screwed up but my gripe is that we really don't know how much they knew and how much of their defense on the field was based on what they knew about us. How many times were they able to jump routes for interceptions or knock down balls, or know our formations and be able to stack that part of the field accordingly. You see where I'm going with this; we certainly did a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot but damn it's not like they deserved an extra edge in that game to help their cause either.

It still all sucks and it's sour too ;)

Deb
02-14-2008, 09:43 PM
The only thing that makes sense about Goodell destroying evidence.....for him to do that..he must have felt there was no other alternative. Or why do it? Unless it was something so incriminating, so damaging to the NFL he thought it was his only way out.

swissvale72
02-14-2008, 09:52 PM
The punt return referenced above is the best example of Belichick owning Cowher. Belichick, through his own film study, sees Troy Edwards tendency to run OOB when covering punts. Cowher either doesn't know his own player does this, or knows it and does nothing to correct it. In any event, Belichick notifies the ref pre-game and it gets called 1Q after a booming punt. Then dumbfu*k Josh Miller spends too much tim monaing about the placement of the ball on the hash and gets off a ****** re-kick that's taken to the house.

'04...the Bettis 4th & 1 call? I really think Cowher was forced to go more with the run that game. Ben was worn out....wasn't sharp, had thrown a pick on his first pass of the game, threw behind an open Randle El....and then there was the debacle prior to half where he threw outside to Tuman for the pick 6, rather than up the middle to heinz for a TD.

We don't know the impact of the Pats cheating. I reall believe that Belichick's a brilliant coach who doesn't need to do that ****, but now that hit appears he's done it in some fashion, screw him. Nail his *** o the wall.

Stlrs4Life
02-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Ehh, it'ss in the past heck on them. Karma will get them in the end. Karma struck once already last week when they lost the SB.

V_83
02-14-2008, 10:21 PM
I wasn't sure it was possible, but I'm very certain I hate the Patriots more than before. :banging:

I don't mean to whine or anything but I would like to see some extreme punishment for the severity of this and in hopes to prevent it from happening again in the future.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-15-2008, 07:08 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08046/857665-85.stm?cmpid=HBEHTML

I knew it!! Now the **** is really starting to come out !


Specter: Patriots filmed Steelers 4 times

Friday, February 15, 2008

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter said yesterday that he has a list of witnesses and will pursue the "Spygate" case against the New England Patriots that he said involved four games against the Steelers, including two AFC championship games.

"I think Steelers fans have a lot to be concerned about this and I'm one of them,'' Mr. Specter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in an interview yesterday, adding that "maybe Steelers ownership should think about it a little."

Specter met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for more than an hour Wednesday to discuss why evidence turned over by the Patriots that documented their illegal videotaping of opposing coaches' signals was destroyed. He said he was not satisfied with Mr. Goodell's explanation.

"I questioned him very closely why they destroyed the tapes and notes,'' said Mr. Specter, a Republican and the senior senator from Pennsylvania. "He gave an answer that made no sense, saying they destroyed them so no one could gain a competitive advantage. But if they put them under lock and key, they couldn't have access to them."

Greg Aiello, NFL senior vice president of public relations, referred to Mr. Goodell's news conference on Wednesday, where the commissioner said, "I think we are going to agree to disagree on certain things, including my view that we had an admission of guilt and, therefore, there was no reason for the tapes to be kept."

Mr. Specter said he specifically asked if they had any notes on the Steelers that were destroyed, and said NFL lawyer Jeffrey Pass indicated notes turned over by the Patriots indicated that four games were involved -- the AFC championship games in Heinz Field at the end of the 2001 and 2004 seasons, and two regular-season games in 2002 and 2004. The Steelers lost three of those games, winning in the regular season in 2004.

"The commissioner confirmed the taping had been going on since the year 2000,'' Mr. Specter said. "He made no valid explanation for [destroying the evidence]. There are a couple other major problems he had, to say the least."

One problem, the senator said, is that Mr. Goodell imposed a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and docked them a first-round draft pick this year before the commissioner learned New England's illegal taping had been more widespread.

The commissioner issued the punishment after a Patriots cameraman was caught taping signals of the New York Jets in their first meeting this season. He then ordered the Patriots to turn over any evidence they had of such taping, including notes. Afterward, no other evidence of illegal taping was mentioned by the league at the time.

"The taping occurred on Sept. 9,'' Mr. Specter noted. "He imposed the fine on the 13th, didn't get the material until the 17th and destroyed it on the 20th. He imposed the fine before he had the notes and tapes.''

Mr. Specter said he may hold hearings into the case, which also possibly involved the Philadelphia Eagles, who lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl after the 2004 season.

He said one witness he's talking to is Matt Walsh, the former Patriots video director who may have been involved in taping the St. Louis Rams' walk-through practice the day before they lost to the Patriots on Feb. 3, 2002.

"Matt Walsh is the guy who supposedly taped the walk-through on the Rams game,'' Mr. Specter said. "The picture's starting to fit together. I've been talking to Walsh's lawyer.''

Mr. Specter said the lawyer indicated Mr. Walsh was being investigated "by a guy named Dick Farley, who is an NFL security guy and a former FBI agent.

"I asked Goodell about it and he said Farley does work for NFL security but that he didn't know anything about it.

"The plot thickens.''

Mr. Aiello said yesterday that Mr. Farley is looking at public records and verifying Mr. Walsh's employment history.

Mr. Specter said he's been informed that the practice of Mr. Belichick's staff illegally taping opposing coaches goes back to his days in the 1990s when he coached the old Cleveland Browns. He said Mr. Goodell told him they never looked into that.

"When you have a pattern,'' Mr. Specter said, "you look for when the pattern started.''

The senator said Mr. Goodell told him he has no more plans to investigate "Spygate.''

"He has a fair-sized stone wall erected,'' Mr. Specter said.

Said Mr. Goodell at his news conference Wednesday, "We're not following up; the senator said he wants to follow up."

Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:

"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

Steelers spokesman Dave Lockett also said that club officials believe that the results of the game did not hinge on stolen signals.

When new Steelers coach Mike Tomlin first heard about the incident with the New England cameraman in New York, he said at his weekly press conference, "Where there's smoke, there's fire.''

To those who believe the NFL is trying to cover up and minimize "Spygate," Mr. Goodell said Wednesday, "We are the ones who discovered the violation and disclosed it. If we were trying to cover something up, we wouldn't have taken the discipline we did and we wouldn't have brought the situation to light. We have been very clear about what happened. There was a violation of our policy."

Hell ya Specter go get em man !! Now Goodell, the NFL, and the Pats might just finally get what they deserve or at the very least be exposed for trying to push this under the rug and let the Pats get away with it! I don't care how many we won or lost due to their taping, well I do but, the point is Belicheat and the Kraft=Krook hopefully get completely run through the ringer!

The crock by Goodell by saying that they were ones the discovered it and :blah: , gimme a break dude, yeah you brought it to the forefront of the public eye so you could look like the hero and then lay down some BS punishment and make it act like it's all over when in reality it was just beginning and you were afraid of being exposed!

portcityblackandgold
02-15-2008, 07:09 AM
I've heard that the real issue involves The FCC and some false info on some licensing applications. This is going to be far bigger scandal than the NBA had to deal with. Bellicheat may have coached his last game. I didnt think his losing ways in Cleveland had turned around that much. Now we know how he did it.

BR7
02-15-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm bitter about every Steeler loss. Playoff losses even more so. I personally despise the Chargers because of the '94 4th and 3 incident. More than the Patsies two playoff wins against us.

I don't think the spying had anything to do with the outcomes. '01, Kordell was.. well.. Kordell. Special teams killed us once again in that game. '04, A pick 6 by Harrison didn't help and the phantom holding call on Aaron (woulda forced a punt) when the 'mo' was on our side. Then add Cowhers brilliant playoff play calling.. the rest is history.

I don't doubt they taped us. I don't think they gained any advantage in doing so. I cannot stand the Patsies and I hope they get burned at the stake. I want to see more of a punishment. I want answers, lol. Goddell is hiding something. No point in destroying evidence.

Treat this like an NCAA violation. No tv coverage, no playoffs for the next two years. Or make an example.. a better example out of them. Do to the Patsies like the MLB did to the Expos.. Buh-bye lol. Then get your expansion team in LA. Problem solved. :lol:

Brady Quinn
02-15-2008, 01:10 PM
Who cares about the tapes. I don't think it can make that much of a difference. Banning them from the playoffs will not work the way it does in college. Players have their contracts set up with bonuses for playoff games. This would be a disaster.

SteelerFan87
02-15-2008, 05:12 PM
Taping defensive signals wouldn't have had anything to do with Ben having a terrible game in the 04 AFCCG.

But on defense, we totally dominated them in the first game that year, sacking Brady 4 times and picking him off twice. Let him know what play our defense is going to run, though, and he'd have to be an idiot not to adjust the protection and know where to throw to, thus limiting the sacks and the INTs. What happened in the 2nd game? Only 2 sacks and no INTs.
IMO, if the Pats don't cheat, and we get anywhere near the same results on defense, you can still win a game like that even if our offense sucked.

Honestly, I really think this destroys any chance of Brady being considered one of the best QBs ever. I mean, the guy has his coaches pretty much reading the defense for him, because they know what play the defense is going to run. Basically all Brady has to do is stand there and throw to the open guy, which considering how much time his O-line gives him, isn't that hard.

TampaSteelGirl
02-15-2008, 09:38 PM
It doen'st matter whether or not them taping us made a difference it all boils down to morals and ethics. If in fact that did tape teams they need to be punished and not just a fine and 1 draft pick. No one knows what the outcome of any of these games could have been but they need to be held accountable or at least Beliprick needs to be because if they slap him on the wrist and he indeed is guilty it's going to be ok for the rest of the entire NFL to do the same. I just want to see wrong made right but I feel bad and hope it doesn't take anything away from Tom Brady, I"m not a fan AT ALL but he is one of the best QBs in NFL history.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-15-2008, 09:55 PM
It doen'st matter whether or not them taping us made a difference it all boils down to morals and ethics. If in fact that did tape teams they need to be punished and not just a fine and 1 draft pick.

:yesnod: Ethics, integrity, morals, and just plain not cheating..no matter how you look at it they cheated and the broke the rules and got nothing more than the equivilant of a hand slap by the league. Regardless of the outcome of the games the fact is they were wrong and now the government is involved because the NFL didn't handle matters properly on it's own. We're no better than MLB or the NBA with all the scandals going on right now in those leagues. Goodell had a chance to set an example of how the NFL deals with it's franchises when they do something wrong like this and they totally blew it.

DIESELMAN
02-15-2008, 10:00 PM
It doen'st matter whether or not them taping us made a difference it all boils down to morals and ethics. If in fact that did tape teams they need to be punished and not just a fine and 1 draft pick. No one knows what the outcome of any of these games could have been but they need to be held accountable or at least Beliprick needs to be because if they slap him on the wrist and he indeed is guilty it's going to be ok for the rest of the entire NFL to do the same.

:plus1: Well put Lady!!!

Black@Gold Forever32
02-15-2008, 11:18 PM
I just crack up when people mentioned morals and ethics in todays Pro Sports...News flash people that all went out the window years ago....lol Pro sports today is Big Business......Its what it is.........Its all about money today and ethics get pushed aside.....The fans are really the only ones that lose....I just except what it is...

I do think the Pats were not punished enough for their arrogance to continue to video tape teams when they were told to stop....But really I don't think their Super Bowls should be stripped.....

DIESELMAN
02-15-2008, 11:34 PM
I just crack up when people mentioned morals and ethics in todays Pro Sports...News flash people that all went out the window years ago....lol Pro sports today is Big Business......Its what it is.........Its all about money today and ethics get pushed aside.....The fans are really the only ones that lose....I just except what it is...

I do think the Pats were not punished enough for their arrogance to continue to video tape teams when they were told to stop....But really I don't think their Super Bowls should be stripped.....
I agree with the fans getting pushed aside. Morals and ethics is still something a lot of people believe in though, even in pro sports. Your right it is big business and it is all about the money, Theres ways of making money without selling your soul.

floodcitygirl
02-15-2008, 11:49 PM
It doen'st matter whether or not them taping us made a difference it all boils down to morals and ethics. If in fact that did tape teams they need to be punished and not just a fine and 1 draft pick. No one knows what the outcome of any of these games could have been but they need to be held accountable or at least Beliprick needs to be because if they slap him on the wrist and he indeed is guilty it's going to be ok for the rest of the entire NFL to do the same. I just want to see wrong made right but I feel bad and hope it doesn't take anything away from Tom Brady, I"m not a fan AT ALL but he is one of the best QBs in NFL history.I agree Tampa and like I said in another thread, if the NFL won't handle this in a correct way then I hope they get handled in the civil courts until their eye balls bug out.

TEEMONT
02-16-2008, 11:40 AM
I think the bigger deal is, how did they manage to get caught? There is a pretty good chance that every team in the NFL cheats in one way or another.

Hopefully the Pats getting caught will discourage the rest of the league from doing the same.

I'm over it though, teams should be doing everything they can to win games. Hell stealing signs in an honored tradition in baseball. Besides, the Steelers still should have won both of those games, Cowher hurt them more than Belichek cheating did.

dick rasile
02-16-2008, 12:32 PM
Senator Specter Says the Patriots Taped the Steelers Twice During 04 http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/sports.aol.com/fanhouse/media/2008/02/rodney-harrison-04-021308.jpg

Well, it looks like Senator Arlen Specter didn't get around (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/01/goodell-explains-why-the-nfl-destroyed-evidence-specter-probab/) to talking about the NFL's antitrust exemption during today's meet-and-greet with commissioner Roger Goodell (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/RogerGoodell/). As Michael David Smith wrote earlier (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/roger-goodell-arlen-specter-say-bill-belichick-has-taped-patrio/), Specter learned that the Patriots have been videotaping opponents since 2000, something that wasn't clear when the league concluded its investigation in September.

In a post-meeting press conference, Specter elaborated. The senator said that "there were notes showing that the Steelers games had been taped." Specifically, two contests during the 2004 season: one on Oct. 31, and the other, the AFC Championship, on Jan. 27.

A couple of things worth pointing out: Pittsburgh smoked the Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=27021&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2004&week=REG8) in the first meeting, 34-20, sacking Tom Brady (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/TomBrady/) four times and picking him off twice. Three months later, the two teams met in the conference finals. Unsurprisingly (in hindsight), the Patriots won 41-27, and Brady, sacked just twice in the rematch, finished 14 of 21 for 207 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions.

Did New England gain an advantage from having videotaped Pittsburgh during the teams' first meeting? There isn't enough evidence to say that, yes, unequivocally the Patriots won because they had the Steelers' defensive signals. But it would also be na´ve to suggest that having access to that information had no bearing on the outcome. If that were true, Matthew Estrella (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MatthewEstrella/) (and Matt Walsh (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MattWalsh/) before him) wouldn't have had a job.

Either way, this doesn't do much for the Patriots' legacy as one of the best teams in NFL history, and it doesn't do much for Roger Goodell's credibility.

I also wonder if Bill Cowher (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BillCowher/) might want to reconsider his earlier thoughts (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/16/cowher-doesnt-think-belichick-cheated-during-afc-championship-g/) on the Steelers' other AFC Championship game against the Patriots.

LINK (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/13/senator-specter-says-the-patriots-taped-the-steelers-twice-durin/#cont)

Let's get off of this crybaby stuff, Steeler's don't **** and moan. Real Steelers come back and kick *** the next time.
The year that Specter is speaking of looks like a good example but if you remember the games were almost identical. In each game one them got such a lead that the game was out of hand.
Quit listening to Senator Arlen Specter bullcrap on cheating in NFL football and demand that his hearings on the US Attorney's get some balls and perform the job they were hired to do. Our country has been lied to and cheated big time.
Tell him to quit screwing around and to send the US Marshal's to haul these crooks to the hearings and let's get this **** over with. So what if there's less then a year left in the Bush Administration. If laws were broken you go after the crooks. It's that simple

Iron City South
02-16-2008, 12:39 PM
I think the bigger deal is, how did they manage to get caught? There is a pretty good chance that every team in the NFL cheats in one way or another.

Hopefully the Pats getting caught will discourage the rest of the league from doing the same.

I'm over it though, teams should be doing everything they can to win games. Hell stealing signs in an honored tradition in baseball. Besides, the Steelers still should have won both of those games, Cowher hurt them more than Belichek cheating did.

This answer is 100% USDA "appeasment" .....

Other teams may cheat, but that's pure speculation on your part. I'm sure people run red lights on purpose too . . . but I'm only concerned with bringing the one's who were actually caught to justice.

While I agree that teams should be doing everthing they can to win games, I'll add that they should be doing it ethically and worry about their own game and not the opposition.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-16-2008, 12:47 PM
If you ask me it all comes down too...if you're not good enough to beat a team on your own merit by lining up 11 guys against 11 guys and going head to head to see who is the better team; and you have to resort to cheating to help you gain an edge then you don't deserve shiat for credit.

Let's face it, Belicheck game plans better than any coach in the league and he knows how to get the most out of his players there is no doubt. Now we find out that on top of all that he cheats to gain more of an advantage, that's just pathetic. No matter how big sports is and how much of a big business it is now a days you still can't justify cheating. The issue isn't so much how the outcome of the games were affected because the NFL won't take away any wins or replay any games but the fact that they did it and continued to do it and lied about it on top of it and hopefully they finally get some just punishment.

TEEMONT
02-16-2008, 12:59 PM
This answer is 100% USDA "appeasment" .....

Other teams may cheat, but that's pure speculation on your part. I'm sure people run red lights on purpose too . . . but I'm only concerned with bringing the one's who were actually caught to justice.

While I agree that teams should be doing everthing they can to win games, I'll add that they should be doing it ethically and worry about their own game and not the opposition.

My point is, Cowhers poor decisions in those games, probably led to the Steelers losing more so than the Pats cheating.

You're actully concerned with bringing people who run red lights to justice? lol

Iron City South
02-16-2008, 03:01 PM
My point is, Cowhers poor decisions in those games, probably led to the Steelers losing more so than the Pats cheating.

You're actully concerned with bringing people who run red lights to justice? lol

1) Regardless of Cowher's ineptitude, fewer points by the Pats would have allowed a degree of stupidity on Cowher's behalf.

2) Yes, I am concerned with people running red lights .... especially those that run them and slam into a family of 4 ... killing all of them instantly.

V_83
02-16-2008, 03:06 PM
1) Regardless of Cowher's ineptitude, fewer points by the Pats would have allowed a degree of stupidity on Cowher's behalf.

2) Yes, I am concerned with people running red lights .... especially those that run them and slam into a family of 4 ... killing all of them instantly.

#1 - I agree more with, and hope the Pats get punished soon.

#2 - Should I probably not know what you're talking about, or did I miss some news? Or was it just hypothetical?

Brady Quinn
02-16-2008, 03:26 PM
They should have to give up mad picks for a while.

Steelerlyn
02-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Golly, Gee do you think I can get my $1200.00 back I spent on tickets for the '04 AFCC game? LOL I didn't think so LOL

TEEMONT
02-16-2008, 06:03 PM
#2 - Should I probably not know what you're talking about, or did I miss some news? Or was it just hypothetical?

it was him being holier than thou

Iron City South
02-16-2008, 06:54 PM
Golly, Gee do you think I can get my $1200.00 back I spent on tickets for the '04 AFCC game? LOL I didn't think so LOL

Although this was intended as a joke, in a few weeks, it won't be so far fetched now that Godell has come out and said the Pats have been filming other teams since 2000.

The floodgates of class action suits against the Pats and possibly even the league are about to open up. Everyone from season ticket holders to fans buying expensive playoff and Super Bowl tickets will want their money refunded because the outcome of the game was compromised. :yesnod:


Former Rams Player, Fans, Sue Patriots $100 Million Dollars Over Alleged Videotaping
Posted by Dan Slater
Two days after Roger Clemens tesified before Congress about alleged steroid use, allegations of illicit activities in sports stand to tarnish another dynasty.

Lawyers for a former St. Louis Ram, Willie Gary, and several other Rams fans filed a complaint today against the New England Patriots and the Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick. Here’s a copy of the complaint and a press release from the plaintiffs lawyers. The suit, a putative class action filed in federal court in Louisiana, seeks more than $100 million (that’s not a typo) for alleged “fraudulent videotaping” of the Rams walk-through practice prior to the 2002 Super Bowl. In addition to Gary, the putative plaintiffs are ticket purchasers and the 72,922 attendees of the Super Bowl. Here’s an early story from the Boston Herald.

This suit is based on allegations that a team employee recorded the Rams walk-through practice on the Saturday before Super Bowl XXXVI at the Louisiana Superdome. The Patriots won the game 20-17. Here are earlier NYT stories (here and here) on the imbroglio.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/02/15/rams-sue-patriots-for-videotapes/


The floodgates are about to open . . . :cabbagepatch:

Steelerlyn
02-16-2008, 10:10 PM
Although this was intended as a joke, in a few weeks, it won't be so far fetched now that Godell has come out and said the Pats have been filming other teams since 2000.

The floodgates of class action suits against the Pats and possibly even the league are about to open up. Everyone from season ticket holders to fans buying expensive playoff and Super Bowl tickets will want their money refunded because the outcome of the game was compromised. :yesnod:




The floodgates are about to open . . . :cabbagepatch:

1200 from China........1200 from the league=my income just went up LOL:)

Preacher
02-18-2008, 06:13 AM
OK...

So the Pats* cheated. We know that. They cheated worse then we thought... Most of us suspected that.

So what should happen to them?

Personally, I beleive that they should lose 15 million in salary cap for next year, 13 million for the year after that, 11 the year after that, then 10 for the next two years.

This team was built on cheating. They won games by cheating. Winning those games created a mystique about the team which lured other players to the Pats* and also allowed some Pats* players to develop without the usual learning curve (knowing what rush is coming will do that).

So how do you fix it? You break down the team. The best way to do it, is with a salary cap limitation.

V_83
02-18-2008, 05:07 PM
OK...

So the Pats* cheated. We know that. They cheated worse then we thought... Most of us suspected that.

So what should happen to them?

Personally, I beleive that they should lose 15 million in salary cap for next year, 13 million for the year after that, 11 the year after that, then 10 for the next two years.

This team was built on cheating. They won games by cheating. Winning those games created a mystique about the team which lured other players to the Pats* and also allowed some Pats* players to develop without the usual learning curve (knowing what rush is coming will do that).

So how do you fix it? You break down the team. The best way to do it, is with a salary cap limitation.

Awesome idea. I couldn't agree more, maybe throw in some coaching firings.

JensK
02-19-2008, 10:39 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d806bbf69&template=with-video&confirm=true

Dunno if you've seen it yet.