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View Full Version : Can our CB's handle more bump n run coverage?



BlitzburghRockCity
01-31-2008, 06:17 PM
One thing that just drives me nuts is seeing Taylor, McFadden, and Townsend giving WR's an 8-10 yd cushion all the time, especially on 3rd down. Get up there and bump those guys at the line, disrupt the timing of the play, and stick to them like glue. Over the years for as long as I can remember I sit there and watch our CB's giving these WR's such a cushion that half the time they already have the first down when they turn around for the ball and our guys are left trying to catch up and get there but it's too late' and that's assuming they get there at all and haven't fallen down slipping on the turf.

I know there are times when you play zone and that's fine to sit back and disguise the coverages and all that but damnit that's why you have deep help on the big play threat WR. If we're going to pay these CB's of ours the big money then let them get up there and play instead of sitting back on their heels falling down trying to recover. If they can't bump and run cover then get somebody who can. I know Ike can do it he's got the potential, Deshea is our best pure cover guy; the jury is still out on McFadden at this point. Instead of always rushing the safeties let them sit back in more of a cover formation a bit and disguise themselves that way so they can help out on the deep stuff or atleast make it appear that way. Anything but this constant sitting back on their heels waiting for something to happen.

Im not saying go switch to a cover completely because we've had that debate a hundred times already and I know we play the cover 2 off and on during the game as well as countless other defensive schemes and formations; we have done so for years; but it's time to either stop trying to hide our CB deficiencies by letting them play off so often and get some other players or it's time to let them shine and see what they can really do.

Stlrs4Life
01-31-2008, 07:02 PM
I always wondered the same TG. But figured that this was just the type of D that Lebeau runs. Thought it was the scheme.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-31-2008, 07:40 PM
Yeah, the 34 zone blitz does call for the DB's to play off a good amount of the time and because we've always had a fierce, relentless, pass rush it wasn't as big of an issue on a regular basis as it's been the last couple years especially. I can vividly remember Chad Scott and Dewayne Washington playing 10-12 yds off all the time and still getting burnt on the intermediate and long passes on a regular basis when the QB had time to throw. Now that our pass rush hasn't been up to snuff the last couple years especially our DB's are exposed even more. Letting our guys play more bump and run will force the WR's to work harder and the QB to hold the ball more while they try to get open vs just letting him run out 8 yds and turn around for the ball while our guys are still 5 yds away when they catch it.

K Train
01-31-2008, 08:55 PM
you cant possible think about pressing a WR with a poor pass rush from haggans and ZERO support from troy

Black@Gold Forever32
01-31-2008, 09:06 PM
you cant possible think about pressing a WR with a poor pass rush from haggans and ZERO support from troy

Very good points......Woodley is going to be vast improvement over Haggans in 2008....That should help the pass rush......Plus Timmons will play more also....If he doesn't start win a starters role at ILB over Foote we still will see Timmons get some playing time.....Thats going to help also...

As for Troy.....I don't know what to think on this one....He isn't really effective in his Taz role anymore which its hard to lean on him for support when he is running around like an idiot.....:bluelol: But if he just drops back into coverage for support he still needs to improve some in his coverage skills....

If people remember in the play-offs against the Colts in 05.......The Steelers did bump the Colts WRs early in that game to throw their timing off with Peyton....But the Steelers could do that since they actually had a pass rush that got to Peyton...lol

So if the Steelers improve their pass rush and Troy just can get back to form then I think you would see our corners press more........

BlitzburghRockCity
01-31-2008, 09:09 PM
Conversely you can't just site back and play 10 yds off and let the QB just play pitch and catch all day with his WR's. Whether you have a pass rush or not you need to get up there and atleast challenge the WR's alittle bit and make them work for their yards and just maybe you'll pick off a few, bat some down or atleast cause some dropped passes. You absolutely need a solid pass rush to be effective, I know this, but still playing off 10 yds all the time has got to stop at some point.

K Train
01-31-2008, 09:33 PM
Conversely you can't just site back and play 10 yds off and let the QB just play pitch and catch all day with his WR's. .

^ this doesnt happen...we rarely just got dumped on this year....the pats did it and the rams did it for a while but our defense was pretty solid against the pass and sayong they play 10 yards off and give up a lot of cathces is really exaggerating...we dont bump, but we do get to the reciever more than you are sayong, often like 5 yards away...which is where you wanna be imo

TEEMONT
01-31-2008, 09:37 PM
It would be nice to be able to bump though, we don't even really have the option right now.

Right now it's really not even an option, b/c of Troy's ****** play, and the lack of huevos on the D-Line.

K Train
01-31-2008, 09:43 PM
with haggans just almost getting there, but not quite mentality we didnt have a choice, woodley showed how powerful he was in the jax game...thats really gonna bolster the pass rush...and him doing that frees up harrison from the double team...its gonn amke a huge difference in every aspect of the defense

Koopa
01-31-2008, 09:59 PM
warner threw on us with ease, and so did cutler, two bum *** faggots picking us apart 10 yards at a time, if more teams were smart they'd all have done the same and we wouldn't have one 5 games this year

SteelerFan87
01-31-2008, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I'm really sick of our total refusal to bump WRs. That is something you HAVE to be able to do in this league, with so many high powered offenses that are based on timing. Seriously, refusing to bump guys is almost like refusing to use the forward pass. lol So many teams have shown that it's the best way to stop great passing offenses, and then those same offenses tear us apart, and we still refuse to bump people. I was hoping Tomlin would bring more of that into the defense, since I'm sure he has some input with LeBeau.

K Train
01-31-2008, 10:35 PM
Yeah, I'm really sick of our total refusal to bump WRs. That is something you HAVE to be able to do in this league, with so many high powered offenses that are based on timing. Seriously, refusing to bump guys is almost like refusing to use the forward pass. lol So many teams have shown that it's the best way to stop great passing offenses, and then those same offenses tear us apart, and we still refuse to bump people. I was hoping Tomlin would bring more of that into the defense, since I'm sure he has some input with LeBeau.

i would just love to see them jam them really hard at the line so they can just have them run pass them and show why troy is worthless as a safety when you need him to actually play safety...we jam, we get bombed on...just like everyone else....ask corey webster what its like to jam a guy like donald driver...he got *** raped and bombed on for a 90 yard TD...its all about the scheme, not jamming them....its not like the forward pass thats a ridiculous statement, especially when our corners are better in zone coverage....maybe you can go jam the **** out of the WRS for them and show them whos boss :redcool:

SteelerFan87
01-31-2008, 11:08 PM
i would just love to see them jam them really hard at the line so they can just have them run pass them and show why troy is worthless as a safety when you need him to actually play safety...we jam, we get bombed on...just like everyone else....ask corey webster what its like to jam a guy like donald driver...he got *** raped and bombed on for a 90 yard TD...its all about the scheme, not jamming them....its not like the forward pass thats a ridiculous statement, especially when our corners are better in zone coverage....maybe you can go jam the shiat out of the WRS for them and show them whos boss :redcool:

Ok, so when Tom Brady starts throwing short little passes to Welker all over the field, and we're in zone playing 5 yards off the line of scrimmage, tell me how we're going to stop them from picking up 5 easy yards, and then 5 more easy yards, 1st down, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat, until they get into the red zone and score? Obviously I'm not saying we should bump people, FAIL, and have no help over the top. That's retarded. But so is staying with the same tactics when the other team adapts and finds a way to pick our defense apart.

Our D is designed to get to the QB before the WRs have a chance to get open deep, and in that situation, giving them a cushion works. But once they go to a quick, short passing game, the QB is getting rid of the ball before our blitz can get there, and the CBs are too far off the WRs to stop the short passes. That's an easy 5 yards we are GIVING teams. How else are you going to stop that other than bumping the WRs? How many times does Brady have to do that to us before we make adjustments?

BlitzburghRockCity
01-31-2008, 11:16 PM
That's what QB's did to us all year long, they went to short drops and quick throws so our pass rush couldn't get there and then our 10 yd cushion was worthless because they can pick up first downs with ease. If you're going to play defense in the NFL your corners have to be able to bump and run as well as play zone. If those guys can't handle it then get somebody who can. The QB's that beat us and the offenses that moved the ball well on us used a good mixture of quick drops and short passes and just marched right down the field. The Jags, Cards, Rams, Pats, nearly all the teams that beat us used that option in their offense a good percentage of the time. That nullified our already nonexistant pass rush even more and our WR's playing off just got torched.

You have to have a good pass rush and Wood will help that alot as will Aaron Smith coming back and occupying a couple blockers and allowing the LB's to get to the QB more, etc. but regardless we don't challenge the WR's near enough as we should IMO...it's been that way for years.

K Train
02-01-2008, 10:43 AM
Ok, so when Tom Brady starts throwing short little passes to Welker all over the field, and we're in zone playing 5 yards off the line of scrimmage, tell me how we're going to stop them from picking up 5 easy yards, and then 5 more easy yards, 1st down, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat, until they get into the red zone and score? Obviously I'm not saying we should bump people, FAIL, and have no help over the top. That's retarded. But so is staying with the same tactics when the other team adapts and finds a way to pick our defense apart.

Our D is designed to get to the QB before the WRs have a chance to get open deep, and in that situation, giving them a cushion works. But once they go to a quick, short passing game, the QB is getting rid of the ball before our blitz can get there, and the CBs are too far off the WRs to stop the short passes. That's an easy 5 yards we are GIVING teams. How else are you going to stop that other than bumping the WRs? How many times does Brady have to do that to us before we make adjustments?
that dump of to welker is literally always there, its uncoverable....you see that every week, and you will see it sunday. that hold little water for your argument

BlitzburghRockCity
02-02-2008, 08:00 AM
If there is 1 way for an offense to really give a 34 zone blitz defense fits it's when they do the quick drops and short, rhythmn passing game. Several years ago the Pats played us early in the year and threw it 25 times in a row because they knew our pass rush was fierce and we could stop the run so they adapted and they won that game. Quick passes and short drops are basically a different way to run the ball and the only real way to beat it is to crowd the line and put as many people as you can in the intermediate passing area and be sure that you tackle well and wrap the guy up before he can get loose. This requires your CB's to play a lot of 1 on 1 coverage so you better have the personnel to do it or teams can march right down the field on you.

HUNT4SEVEN
02-04-2008, 11:36 AM
when we played 4-3 we were number 1 n pass coverage,just imagine what we can do when we get our pass rushing up 2 par.........

manofsteel
02-04-2008, 01:56 PM
i didnt feel the d this year. there were games where it was great and others that just looked soft. I remember dnver completing what teo different 3rd down conversons of 15 yards or more. The last couple games of the season including the playoffs was like what four sacks. Those exotic blitzes didnt work much either. I lov dick lebeau but i think it was better that cowher never gave him complete control. if you dont keep a leash on him he can get a little to complex and risky. I saw alot of linebackers getting clogged up at the line this year.not enough poressure from the front three and the shoot farrior and foote through the a gap way too much