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Iron City South
12-21-2007, 10:59 AM
That's right .... I'm saying it here and now.

Trade him .... he has significant value in the market and let's face it, we need to begin replentishing and upgrading the level of talent on this team.

I like Parker, but Parker is not ... and will never be, Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.

Steelers have ALWAYS been about a bruising running back that doesn't have a problem punishing people between the tackles and breaking tackles at the 2nd level. We're all about "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of football.

Pittsburgh football is about converting 3rd and shorts .... not 3rd and extremely longs as a result of the first 2 running plays netting 2 yards!


Flame away ..... but that's where I stand! :yesnod:

K Train
12-21-2007, 11:03 AM
Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.


most overrated thing ever

Steelersfan
12-21-2007, 11:03 AM
If you trade him for entire offensive line I'll take it.......lol

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 11:18 AM
I know you and I don't always agree ICS but I respect your opinion and your insight...but trading FWP ?? no Freekin way!! We aren't a smash mouth team anymore, plain and simple. We are a pass offense to set up the run and that's how it is. A smash mouth RB is fine and Im all for us having one to use in our offense but FWP is a good RB and trading him would be a terrible idea.

we need an offensive line that can block and then Willie will be even better than he is now.

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 11:23 AM
Team needs re-tooled anyhow TG, Parker is a square peg in a round hole. With the money that the Steelers invest in their so called "core" players, there's no way in hell we're going to EVER have an elite offensive line.

Willie Parker doesn't have the vision or versatility to run behind a bunch of "average Joe's" ....His running stats are skewed just as much as the stat that state we are the #1 Defense in the league (Joke!) ..... smoke and mirrors my friend.

I'm telling you right here and now, Parker is not the long term answer to an every down back. Say what you will about Whizenhut, but he knew Parkers limitations and he also knew how to use him in a 2 back system.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 11:30 AM
This team does need a bruiser back, I'll give you that. I like Najeh's style and I think he brings a lot to the table but we don't use him near enough to compliment Willie. I mean the per carry ratio between the 2 is just ridiculously out of sync.

I have no problems with us using 2 backs more often to keep things mixed up but this team needs a solid OL for anybody to be successful. Beating up on the Rams, Cincy, Cleveland, MIami and what not proves nothing about our running game good or bad. Our OL has gotten old and needs a couple key aquisitions and we'll be just fine. I don't think we need an elite offensive line although it would be nice I'll grant you that but having even a "good" offensive line would be a big key for Parker having more success. They aren't afraid to pay OL; look at Faneca's, Marvel's, and Kendall's contracts, and even Hartings last deal. They will pay for OL and we can have a good one again we just need to find the right guys.

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 11:40 AM
Paid too much for Polamalu and are currently paying way to much for Casey Hampton. Now if we do indeed make the change to a "43" defense (i.e. Tampa 2) .... their contracts will only seem more absurd. I won't even go into the Simmons contract for that steaming pile of dog ****.

BenRoth won't come cheap .... money will be tight and re-working contracts will be a must. If they try to make Starks an offer ... you might as well kiss any cap space goodbye.

"Average Joe's" like Mahan on the OL will be the order of the day.

AZ_Steeler
12-21-2007, 11:48 AM
I think TG started to touch on this but didn't come out and say it... The coaching staff isn't mixing it up between Najeh and FWP enough.... It's all FWP and then late in the game they bring in Najeh! IMO, I think they need to work in Najeh a little earlier in the game and let him soften up the D some. Najeh can lower his shoulder and knock you back some to pick up those couple extra yards... Willie needs a huge hole or nobody on the corner because he can't make you miss and he can't knock you back... they just need to find a better way to get these two guys involved in the game better and utilize them the best way possible. Willie between the tackles doesn't work it's not his style...

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 11:55 AM
Im not saying the contracts for Faneca, Simmons, or anyone else on the OL are justified I was just pointing out that we do pay good market value for OL our problem is that we haven't drafted well in that area for years and now it's killing us.

They'll rework contracts for Hines, Troy, Casy, Aaron Smith, Willie, etc to get the deals done for players like Ben and for good OL we just need to draft better or get some QUALITY free agents in here instead of the bottom of the barrel guys we've been picking up lately. After that it's up to Bruce and Mike Tomlin to make the offense work with the guys we have. We have the personnel like the Colts do to run the offense that they do ( which is what we are now) we just need to work to get to the point of running it better.

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 12:09 PM
Im not saying the contracts for Faneca, Simmons, or anyone else on the OL are justified I was just pointing out that we do pay good market value for OL our problem is that we haven't drafted well in that area for years and now it's killing us.

I can't argue w/this at all.


They'll rework contracts for Hines, Troy, Casy, Aaron Smith, Willie, etc to get the deals done for players like Ben and for good OL we just need to draft better or get some QUALITY free agents in here instead of the bottom of the barrel guys we've been picking up lately.

Won't happen. Rooney's are as traditional and consistent at how they use the FA market as the weather in Arizona. Once a decade, we get an "A" list player. I wouldn't count on getting all those contracts done either. Perhaps a few, but not all. This is why I feel we will have a "grab bag" OL of "Average Joe's" and not an elite one for years to come.


After that it's up to Bruce and Mike Tomlin to make the offense work with the guys we have. We have the personnel like the Colts do to run the offense that they do ( which is what we are now) we just need to work to get to the point of running it better.

Personally, I don't want the Colts offense or defense. I want a smashmouth Steeler offense that can ram it down your throat or kill you with the pass the minute you stack the box to play the run.

I want a traditional Steeler defense that makes opposing teams blow it down their leg the moment they step on the field with us. I want angry players with a chip on their shoulders that want nothing more than to kill anybody not wearing the same colored uniform. I'm appalled by even the notion that we would use such a soft bunch to benchmark ourselves against.

That's not who we are ... or should ever want to be.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 12:25 PM
Yeah I know our philosphy for getting FA's is not likely to change, the Rooneys' are definitely set in their ways in that respect. Unless we draft better we're destined to have a sub par OL I'll give you that for sure. We need to hit another Wayne Gandy for example who may not have been the worlds best but he was very good for many years for us; if we could land atleast 1 big or even semi big FA OL I'd be happy but we all know this team is built on drafting & our picks in the last several years, hell longer than that have just totally blown chunks. We all knew we'd be paying for that someday and now that time is here :nonod:

As far as offense's go, that what Arians is and why he was promoted; to use Ben in a way that uses his skills in the passing game more. We'll never be a traditional smash mouth offense again or atleast as long as Arians is the OC. Tomlin like to run the ball and all that but with our WR's, TE's, and RB's we are built to mirror the Colts. Having their offense isn't so bad really, I mean they did win a super bowl with it. We're just not used to being a team that throws so much and sets up the run with the pass.

I miss having a Bus as much as anyone else and being able to run it down your throat at will. We do need to be able to run at will and Tomlin needs to address that for sure but the days of 3 yds and a cloud of dust are long gone for better or worse....

Blitzburghpete
12-21-2007, 12:43 PM
That's right .... I'm saying it here and now.

Trade him .... he has significant value in the market and let's face it, we need to begin replentishing and upgrading the level of talent on this team.

I like Parker, but Parker is not ... and will never be, Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.

Steelers have ALWAYS been about a bruising running back that doesn't have a problem punishing people between the tackles and breaking tackles at the 2nd level. We're all about "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of football.

Pittsburgh football is about converting 3rd and shorts .... not 3rd and extremely longs as a result of the first 2 running plays netting 2 yards!


Flame away ..... but that's where I stand! :yesnod:


Again ICS I'm with you on this one and i'd go for trades for offencive linemen. Mahan is an utter waste of space. I was specifically watching him in the Rams game, and he was giving up sacks, and run blocking was not moving his man back from the line of srummage at all.



I know you and I don't always agree ICS but I respect your opinion and your insight...but trading FWP ?? no Freekin way!! We aren't a smash mouth team anymore, plain and simple.
.

TG no were not a smash mouth team anymore and look where it's gotten us? Were struggling right now because the whole game is being put in ben's hands to convert 3rd and longs, which lets face if, we haven't got the passing attack of Indy or Pats to convert these things. We need Balance and that comes from power running, eating the clock, keeps our dee fresh, keeps the 3rd downs managable. It's not rocket science. We need to get back to the formula that works.

If we don't trade FWP i think he should be used in exactly the same way Jacksonville uses MDD, in that he spells the main back, which in our case SHOULD be Davenport.

LeXX75
12-21-2007, 12:46 PM
you do know 3 yards and a clould of dust = 4th and 1

black an gold 4 life
12-21-2007, 12:55 PM
i agree we need an bruising back like an drew jones type back an pair him up with an gary russell wow that would b nice, if we trade him trade him 2 the nfc i don't want him n our conference.............

Mike Tomlin
12-21-2007, 01:13 PM
I like FWP and I hated to see him go down but, this is the adjustment we needed to get us ready for the playoffs. We needed a bigger back in the game so he could move that one tackler that our OLine always seem to miss and get those 3 yards. With Willie he would get that 1 carry for 15 yards but his next 3 would be for 1,-2, 0 yards which takes our O off the field quick. That leaves their offense on the field longer with our d and they start to get use to the blitzes and now take advantage of a tired defense. What happened in the fourth? Najeh had worn down the D and run down the clock, the defense was well rested and got turnovers and pressure on the Qb. That's what we're built for big backs that can get those 2 or 3 yards and get us in 3rd and short situations so we can use guys like Ward and Miller. I think Wille should use this rehab time to just catch balls so when he comes back we can line him up everywhere like Florida uses Harmon. He has the speed if he gets the hands who can run with him? Plus it would open up other players on the field. Get healthy Willie and come back with some better hands.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 01:24 PM
We have found ourselves in more 3rd and longs this year then we are used too that much is for sure but look at how often Ben has converted for us. He has the highest 3rd down efficiency passer rating in the league, over Brady and Manning. Nobody likes being in 3rd and long but atleast we are able to convert a good amount of the time.

If we can get some an OL to block for us it opens up so many more possibilities that our offense won't know what to do with itself. We have an offense in place that IF we have a good OL and IF our OC calls the plays right we can be as potent as Indy, NE, Dallas or anyone else..we're just not there yet and it all starts with the 5 hogs up front.

GoBenGo
12-21-2007, 01:38 PM
what will you get for a rb with a broken leg...

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 02:10 PM
what will you get for a rb with a broken leg...


Plenty. Willie went out on top in the league. You and I both know that a lot of his yardage was "garbage" yards, but others in the league will be enamoured with the fact that he's 1) fast and 2) a league leading rusher.

His fracture will be healed in 6 weeks and he should be fully rehabed and back a full strength in 10-12 weeks. No biggie ...

SteelersfaninPhilly
12-21-2007, 02:18 PM
That's right .... I'm saying it here and now.

Trade him .... he has significant value in the market and let's face it, we need to begin replentishing and upgrading the level of talent on this team.

I like Parker, but Parker is not ... and will never be, Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.

Steelers have ALWAYS been about a bruising running back that doesn't have a problem punishing people between the tackles and breaking tackles at the 2nd level. We're all about "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of football.

Pittsburgh football is about converting 3rd and shorts .... not 3rd and extremely longs as a result of the first 2 running plays netting 2 yards!


Flame away ..... but that's where I stand! :yesnod:



First off this team needs to upgrade the offensive line and the defensive line. Second you will never get equal value in a trade for parker. The running game is not the problem. Even though I think Tomlin over extended Parker this season.

BRICKTOWN BEAST
12-21-2007, 02:26 PM
That's right .... I'm saying it here and now.

Trade him .... he has significant value in the market and let's face it, we need to begin replentishing and upgrading the level of talent on this team.

I like Parker, but Parker is not ... and will never be, Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.

Steelers have ALWAYS been about a bruising running back that doesn't have a problem punishing people between the tackles and breaking tackles at the 2nd level. We're all about "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of football.

Pittsburgh football is about converting 3rd and shorts .... not 3rd and extremely longs as a result of the first 2 running plays netting 2 yards!


Flame away ..... but that's where I stand! :yesnod:



I 100% agree i miss the tuff pittsburg smashomuth cloud of dust for three offense.

GoBenGo
12-21-2007, 03:18 PM
Plenty. Willie went out on top in the league. You and I both know that a lot of his yardage was "garbage" yards, but others in the league will be enamoured with the fact that he's 1) fast and 2) a league leading rusher.

His fracture will be healed in 6 weeks and he should be fully rehabed and back a full strength in 10-12 weeks. No biggie ...
I see what your saying... and I agree... garbage yards is right... I know we knew it...I just thought more of the outsiders knew...It is not like FWP was striking fear into opposing D's... least not like the NFL's leading rusher should...great from the twenty to the twenty... that and :2cents: will by gumball...

Greygrizzly
12-21-2007, 03:51 PM
I wouldn't trade Willie unless we could get a significantly high draft choice for him. Which could happen given his stats. But if that didn't happen he should return to the change up back. A role his shined in.

yinzer
12-21-2007, 04:51 PM
someone should call belicheat to see how we can keep willie while getting a great draft pick. oh, wait a minute. that would mean we would have to cheat as well. nevermind.

steelcitysfinestXL
12-21-2007, 06:29 PM
To me this is RE-TAR-DED!!!! We have a back who is doing things that very few Steeler RBs have ever done!!! And you are all talking about tying to deal him... everyone needs to calm down. Trading parker is the last thing we need to think about. We need upgrades at Oline and we need them now.
I think its been proven that Ben is gonna be a star for years to come... in that respect having parker is gonna be a lethal combination. In building a good O, You either have a Great Qb with a solid Back (ex: Manning and Edge/Addai) Or you have a good 2 back system 1 premier back, a back up that compliments him and a QB thats smart w/ the ball. (Ex: '06 Saints Bush/Deuce and Brees)

-This is the first year in this offense
-Ben was coming off of his worst year and til now had not shown consistent enough play to make him the center piece of this offense
-We lost a once great center and replaced him w/ a bum!!!
If you look at these things alone i think it sums up why our o hasnt been consistant

$teeler$guy
12-21-2007, 07:56 PM
really we need someone thats like the bus someone like brandon jacobs or a nice draft pick

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 08:52 PM
really we need someone thats like the bus someone like brandon jacobs or a nice draft pick

I wonder if Santa is listening .... :santa2:

http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/mcfaddenespn.jpg

StlersGuy
12-21-2007, 08:53 PM
I wouldn't trade Willie unless we could get a significantly high draft choice for him. Which could happen given his stats. But if that didn't happen he should return to the change up back. A role his shined in.


:bigthumb:

Mike Tomlin
12-21-2007, 09:06 PM
really we need someone thats like the bus someone like brandon jacobs or a nice draft pick
Not Brandon Jacobs lol!

Black@Gold Forever32
12-21-2007, 09:07 PM
That's right .... I'm saying it here and now.

Trade him .... he has significant value in the market and let's face it, we need to begin replentishing and upgrading the level of talent on this team.

I like Parker, but Parker is not ... and will never be, Steelers smashmouth football, Pittsburgh style.

Steelers have ALWAYS been about a bruising running back that doesn't have a problem punishing people between the tackles and breaking tackles at the 2nd level. We're all about "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of football.

Pittsburgh football is about converting 3rd and shorts .... not 3rd and extremely longs as a result of the first 2 running plays netting 2 yards!


Flame away ..... but that's where I stand! :yesnod:

Can I ask what would you want in return for Willie? The Cowboys built their dynasty in the early 90s off the Hershel Walker trade.....Now Parker wouldn't bring in return would Walker did for the Cowboys....But it would be smart to look at every possible way on how to improve your football team.....Right now I wouldn't think many players were untouchable on the Steelers roster.....I don't want to see Parker traded but if the Steelers could get some nice draft picks in return for him then its something to think about...

How about trading Troy? He can go for real......

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 09:10 PM
Now do you really think the team would trade away Troy after giving him that big extension :lol: He may not be having the best year of his career statistically but I would image his roster spot is pretty safe.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-21-2007, 09:14 PM
Now do you really think the team would trade away Troy after giving him that big extension :lol: He may not be having the best year of his career statistically but I would image his roster spot is pretty safe.

No I don't see Troy being traded...But I really don't want to see Willie traded so I brought Troy's name up instead.....When you think about though...right now Ben is probably the only player on this roster that I wouldn't think about trading.....I would think and listen to offers for every other player on this roster though.....

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 09:15 PM
I wonder if we could get anything for our offensive line? Perhaps a 6th round draft pick for the lot of them? :lol:

DIESELMAN
12-21-2007, 09:27 PM
I wonder if we could get anything for our offensive line? Perhaps a 6th round draft pick for the lot of them? :lol:
:lol: We would have to give up our 6th rd pick just for someone to take em :haha:

Iron City South
12-21-2007, 09:46 PM
Question is: what is fair trade value for Parker?

That's a tough one ... because that can vary by team depending on how bad they need/want him.

There's multiple ways to deal .... you can look at moving up in certain rounds, you can look to aquiring some extra draft picks for him, you can do both move up and aquire additional picks, you can do a "straight up" trade and assume the contract of a veteran player that you want.

Tough to say what we could get for him, but the only qustion we really need the answer to right now is "Does Parker have value?" .... the answer is obviously YES.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-21-2007, 10:27 PM
He has value because he's a proven veteran. He's a 2 time pro bowler, holds the record for the longest run in SB history, He's had over 1000 yds rushing the last 3 years in a row, he's got all kinds of value which is exactly why we shouldn't trade him ;)

If you're going to wheel and deal a veteran player who's got the pull of a FWP then you better get atleast 2, day 1 draft picks and a veteran player you can use right away in the deal IMO.

Greygrizzly
12-21-2007, 11:33 PM
Not Brandon Jacobs lol!


Brandon Jacobs has the size and he is fast for a big back over twenty yards but he gets hurt pretty often and can't catch at all.

K Train
12-22-2007, 12:01 AM
i hate you all...the term "big back" "bruising back" "power back" are all retarded so seriously just stop, bettis spoiled all of you with his gravity defying fatness and you wont ever see that again...Jacobs would be a TE if he could catch, hes 6 ****ing 4 and fast...you give me brian westbrook any day...like ive said before, power running has little to do with the RB...and all to do with the oline

Blitzburghpete
12-22-2007, 05:16 AM
K-train has a point. I'm a Power back kinda guy, but as he said the back doenst have to be a monster back, IMO, he needs to be a back that when contact is made pushes the pile backwards. Parker simply doesn't do that.
Bettis and Davenport do and turn those 1 yard gains into 3 yard ones.
Other backs who i think would fit the "pittsburgh" system would be

MDD,
Brandon Jacobs - although in my opinion he needs to lower his shoulder pads more
TJ Ducket - Obviuosly
Adrain Peterson - ( man that would be dreamsville wouldn't it!! )
LT
Lamont Jordan

Thing is as i said before, i don't think we should trade Parker for another RB, we need help on the o line.

If Faneca leaves this off season- i personally think we need 5 new starters, with Parker as the bait to get them.

tonyromo9
12-22-2007, 07:30 AM
Wow I thot u guys all Loved Willie I didn't think you guys would part with him so weird. Me not being a Steelers fan always liked him I didnt think he was that overrated but u guys know best I guess

DIESELMAN
12-22-2007, 09:36 AM
Wow I thot u guys all Loved Willie I didn't think you guys would part with him so weird. Me not being a Steelers fan always liked him I didnt think he was that overrated but u guys know best I guess
We all do love Willie, its just a suggestion and a remote possibility at best. Why not discuss any and all possibilities where the #1 concern is whats best for the Steelers?

Steelersfan
12-22-2007, 11:51 AM
i hate you all...the term "big back" "bruising back" "power back" are all retarded so seriously just stop, bettis spoiled all of you with his gravity defying fatness and you wont ever see that again...Jacobs would be a TE if he could catch, hes 6 ****ing 4 and fast...you give me brian westbrook any day...like ive said before, power running has little to do with the RB...and all to do with the oline

Seriously, power running has a lot to do with the RB. You could have a great o-line with Parker and he'd just keeping getting leveled by LB's! DL tackle him with 1 arm at times! I'm sure the defense on any team is scared of Willie's power. (<-sarcasm) Parker is just pure speed and that's it. He doesn't see well, doesn't make people miss, doesn't catch well and has had more than a few problems with fumbles.
That doesn't mean I want to trade him but I'd like to see him be a change of pace back.

Give me Jamal Lewis next year!!!!!!!

BlitzburghRockCity
12-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Jamal Lewis isn't going anywhere, the Browns will give him pretty much whatever he wants I would imagine :yesnod: although knowing the Browns they'll screw it up and lose him :lol:

Give Willie time, he's still learning how to be a complete back. He's grown by leaps and bounds since his rookie year and you don't make a back to back pro bowl appearance for nothing, or lead the league in rushing either for nothing; but he's got a ways to go yet, he can be the complete back we need but he needs a good OL just like any other RB.

Steelersfan
12-22-2007, 11:55 AM
Jamal Lewis isn't going anywhere, the Browns will give him pretty much whatever he wants I would imagine :yesnod: although knowing the Browns they'll screw it up and lose him :lol:

Lose him to us!.......:lol:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-22-2007, 12:02 PM
We all do love Willie, its just a suggestion and a remote possibility at best. Why not discuss any and all possibilities where the #1 concern is whats best for the Steelers?

Exactly....I don't want to see Willie traded also....Plus RBs in the trade market usually don't fetch the highest return in value....A few years ago the Colts could only get a 3rd round pick for Edge James so thats why he wasn't traded before becoming a FA.....But still any smart organization would look at any possible way to improve their football team...I think Ben is the only player really untouchable on this roster currently....

$teeler$guy
12-22-2007, 10:15 PM
Brandon Jacobs has the size and he is fast for a big back over twenty yards but he gets hurt pretty often and can't catch at all.


yea but he will get better hands for xmas maybe

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I wonder if Santa is listening .... :santa2:

http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/mcfaddenespn.jpg

probably not dat fat bastard sike Santa i love u lol.:lol::lol:

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but finesse backs just juke in da back field and often get tackled for a lose in da back field.when power backs run down hill and just pull people over or drag them down da field like william perry did.but some players r finesse back and have a little power in dem like ummm landian tomlinson maybe or larry johnson

SteelCityPride08
12-23-2007, 10:09 PM
no thats a terrible perception
i don't agree with trading willie parker
our offensive line hasn't been giving willie the big holes that they should

i mean the first 6 games willie gained over 600 yards and then for some reason the holes went away

he led the NFL in rushing before he got hurt
AND YOU THINK WE SHOULD TRADE HIM!?
come on now were not getting rid of fast willie

if we were going to get anybody else, F*** Jamal Lewis he used to be a ratbird, Stephen Jackson is a beast, I'd like him on our team

Stairwayto7
12-24-2007, 08:06 AM
I hate to agree! But I am not a huge Willie Parker fan this season! I really like the guy, but I want more! Yes he can hit the homerun for you once in a while. But we can do better! I want a more physical back! He leads the league in rushing and attempts, so he should lead in yards! Give me a better Yards for Carry!

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Seriously, power running has a lot to do with the RB. You could have a great o-line with Parker and he'd just keeping getting leveled by LB's! DL tackle him with 1 arm at times! I'm sure the defense on any team is scared of Willie's power. (<-sarcasm) Parker is just pure speed and that's it. He doesn't see well, doesn't make people miss, doesn't catch well and has had more than a few problems with fumbles.
That doesn't mean I want to trade him but I'd like to see him be a change of pace back.

Give me Jamal Lewis next year!!!!!!!

Steelers have a moral obligation to not sign an ex con! With that said, Our starter now Davenport, may not be here next season if he is found guilty of beating a women!

Iron City South
12-24-2007, 11:23 AM
I hate to agree! But I am not a huge Willie Parker fan this season! I really like the guy, but I want more! Yes he can hit the homerun for you once in a while. But we can do better! I want a more physical back! He leads the league in rushing and attempts, so he should lead in yards! Give me a better Yards for Carry!

Now there's a man who know what Steelers football is all about.

Enough of this homerun or nothing BS ... Let's get somebody in here that has a full portfolio of skills that make a complete back ... complete. :bigthumb:

BlitzburghRockCity
12-24-2007, 11:46 AM
Now there's a man who know what Steelers football is all about.

Enough of this homerun or nothing BS ... Let's get somebody in here that has a full portfolio of skills that make a complete back ... complete. :bigthumb:

It's only what you perceive Steelers football to be about, not what is reality anymore with this team. You don't want to give Willie time to develop. It's not good enough to have 3 1000+ yd seasons, lead the league in rushing, or that's he's working hard to improve to be a better back you just have to have this complete back now...well newsflash it takes time to develop a complete back so if you draft one you'll still have growing pains. Peterson is not a complete back yet as you can see the last few weeks he's hit that rookie wall and is now learning how to overcome it, LT may be now but he's still always trying to improve. You never stop learning and when Willie gets even better next year you'll find something else wrong with him :bigthumb:

It used to be that we had a power back and then a change of pace back that was faster and more versatile. Well now the roles are reversed. Najeh is the change of pace back and he's done excellent at it. He's our starter now and I have all the confidence in the world in him. I've been saying that since last year, he's been money for us and is the versatile guy that backs up Willie nicely with his different style but Willie is still the starter. He's getting paid starter money and Tomlin believes in him. Willie will continue to improve and get better. He spent this year learning how to run between the tackles more and now next year he needs to work on seeing the field alittle better but it will come. He's not as bad as you think. You keep wanting a more complete back but NOBODY in this league, nobody anywhere, is going to get all those complete yards you want behind a tin foil offensive line and that's the bottom line. You don't get another RB to fix the OL issues; you fix the OL with the OL to be a complete team; one that can pass block and run block at the same time.

Bring on the doubters in 2008 :woot:

Stairwayto7
12-24-2007, 11:50 AM
It's only what you perceive Steelers football to be about, not what is reality anymore with this team. You don't want to give Willie time to develop. It's not good enough to have 3 1000+ yd seasons, lead the league in rushing, or that's he's working hard to improve to be a better back you just have to have this complete back now...well newsflash it takes time to develop a complete back so if you draft one you'll still have growing pains. Peterson is not a complete back yet as you can see the last few weeks he's hit that rookie wall and is now learning how to overcome it, LT may be now but he's still always trying to improve. You never stop learning and when Willie gets even better next year you'll find something else wrong with them :bigthumb:

Bring on the doubters in 2008 :woot:

TG,

I understand what you are saying, but Willie is not very consistent , in my mind anyway! Yeah he gets a 100+ yards, but its 2 here , 3 there, then a 60yarder. I know it could be worse, but he will never be more valuable in a trade than he is right now. We need to pound the ball to open up Bens game

BlitzburghRockCity
12-24-2007, 11:59 AM
It's all about the line bro ;) Having Najeh put up 100 yds against a bad Rams defense doesn't really show anything other than the OL actually having a good night finally. His style differs from Willie and that's great. We get that OL fixed and you could stick me back there I'd get 100 yds a game :lol: well ok maybe not me but you see what I'm getting at. A solid OL can make an average back look good but a bad OL can make a great back look bad. I truly believe that if/when we fix the OL it will bring everything else together. We have most of the pieces but this team needs to be more consistent at the point of attack on both sides of the ball. When that happens we will see Willie being able to find the holes better and make more consistent yards. You can't get 1,2, or 3 tough yards when you have 3 defenders in the backfield before the play starts. This is all hinged upon Willie also continuing to improve his game and I think at this point there's no reason to think he won't but we'll see. :)

Iron City South
12-24-2007, 01:59 PM
Regardless of what type of Oline we have allbeit an elite one or a bunch of very average Joe's, it's not going to change the fact that Willie can't break tackles, can't run between the tackles, doesn't have great hands, doesn't run instinctively and see the right holes, and doesn't make people miss. All Willie has a really speed .... and speed alone isn't enough.

Willie has far too many carries that result in either negative yardage or 1-2 yards than he should. This puts far too much pressure on the passing game to convert all the 3rd and long situations that he is solely responsible for.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-24-2007, 02:28 PM
I don't know why we keep debating this because neither of us is going to agree with the other person or give an inch..LOL

Willie must have broke some tackles this year because he sure as hell didn't run for 1400 yds all at one time. You just see the fumbles he had or the fact that he gets stuffed for negative plays at times and then call it as him not being able to do anything but break plays outside. You really need to sit down and watch the games again if that's all you think. How many times do have to see him getting stuffed for a 2 or 3 yd loss to see that the line is letting 2 or 3 defenders into the backfield as soon as he gets the handoff; or that the line doesn't keep contain on the outside to let him break one and get to the next level; before you realize it's not his fault like you think it is all the time. There is absolutely no way in God's green earth to think that Bettis would have that much better stats this year with the OL playing the way it is either. Jerome needs a FB blocking for him that can block and he needs to get a head of steam too; he's admitted that many times in interviews over the years. Willie is the same way, so is LT,and so is Peterson. All of them have good OL's and top notch FB's leading the way; this 2007 Steelers team doesn't have either one of those. When you don't have solid blocking it doesn't matter who is carrying the ball it just doesn't work. I'm sure Ben would appreciate your wanting to fix the OL by getting another RB so he can continue to run for his life.

Again we'll just agree to disagree :bigthumb:

DIESELMAN
12-24-2007, 02:37 PM
I say we send a plane over St. Louis, sending out a subliminal message.....

"SJAX is a bum, trade to Pittsburgh for Willie Parker"

SJAX is a beast, he runs like he's pissed off at the whole world, thats what we need as our starting RB, someone who has that attitude, to want to destroy anybody who gets in front of him.

Iron City South
12-24-2007, 03:22 PM
I say we send a plane over St. Louis, sending out a subliminal message.....

"SJAX is a bum, trade to Pittsburgh for Willie Parker"

SJAX is a beast, he runs like he's pissed off at the whole world, thats what we need as our starting RB, someone who has that attitude, to want to destroy anybody who gets in front of him.

How can anyone not get jacked up just reading this. This is what Steeler football is all about. A RB who will punch them in the mouth, move the chains, and eat clock.


:plus1:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2007, 03:27 PM
The Rams are not trading Steven Jackson......lol Some of the RBs in this draft like Stewart from Oregon would be nice....But the Steelers biggest need this off-season is the OL....You really want to go into next year with this current addition at OL? I know I don't...The Steelers need a LT and a center big time....Plus I would also draft another OT or OG for depth purposes down the road....

DIESELMAN
12-24-2007, 03:31 PM
The Rams are not trading Steven Jackson......lol

Subliminal messages bro, thats where it at :haha:



I say we send a plane over St. Louis, sending out a subliminal message.....

"SJAX is a bum, trade to Pittsburgh for Willie Parker"

SJAX is a beast, he runs like he's pissed off at the whole world, thats what we need as our starting RB, someone who has that attitude, to want to destroy anybody who gets in front of him.


:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2007, 03:51 PM
I like Steven Jackson in fact if Big Ben wouldn't have been there at 11...I wanted the Steelers to trade down and draft Jackson that year...

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Plus I don't want to see Willie traded....Improve the OL and give Davenport more carries next year...The running game will be fine...

Iron City South
12-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Parker is such a special talent, that it only took Dookie Davenport 1 game to score as many points for the Pittsburgh Steelers as Parker did in an entire season ...

Yeah, he's special alright.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-24-2007, 04:04 PM
I like Steven Jackson in fact if Big Ben wouldn't have been there at 11...I wanted the Steelers to trade down and draft Jackson that year...

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Plus I don't want to see Willie traded....Improve the OL and give Davenport more carries next year...The running game will be fine...

Next year I do want to see Tomlin give more carries to Najeh; the amount that Willie got this year was so lopsided from what Najeh did that it's a wonder Willie had anything left at the end of the year at all. Najeh is such a capable back and if we're going to use him in a complimentary role then let's atleast do that and really make use of his talents. I've been screaming for more carries and touches for Davenport all year to help keep the defense's on their heels and keep both RB's fresh. I would hope that's a priority for next year.

Black@Gold Forever32
12-24-2007, 04:14 PM
Parker is such a special talent, that it only took Dookie Davenport 1 game to score as many points for the Pittsburgh Steelers as Parker did in an entire season ...

Yeah, he's special alright.

Ok....Parker didn't have many TDs this year......But in 2006 he had 13 rushing and 3 receiving for a total of 16....Which was a Steelers single season record for TDs in a season....How soon we forget.....

Dude you're entitled to your opinion and do agree on some things...But at the same time I'm still behind Willie Parker as the starting RB for this team....Good conversation though...

BlitzburghNation
12-24-2007, 08:50 PM
No way,,,,,,,,,,Hell No,,,,,,,,,,, We keep Willie and find a hammer for short yardage situatioins !

Ambridge
12-24-2007, 09:49 PM
you do know 3 yards and a clould of dust = 4th and 1

Unfortunately Incomplete passes on first and second down mixed in with an obligatory short run for little or no gain/or the "safe" but non productive screen pass on third down leads to the same result=PUNT.

Preacher
12-24-2007, 10:24 PM
I wouldn't trade Willie unless we could get a significantly high draft choice for him. Which could happen given his stats. But if that didn't happen he should return to the change up back. A role his shined in.

Really? When was that? In 2004, he only saw the field in the last game of the year. Bettis was the backup to Staley. When Staley was hurt... Verron stepped in as a backup to Bettis.

in 2005, Parker was the starter... not a change of pace back. So when exactly was this great role?

The fact is, we have the weapons on offense in a QB, a RB a WR (maybe a couple) and at least one TE to be dominant in a quick strike offense. The problem is the O line, which is still a hold over from the older style.

So what would you do... try to change all of your skill positions? Or try to pick up a couple more players on the O line and continue on the balanced track.

At this point anyone who wants the old smashmouth football... 3 yards and a cloud of mediocrity, must be satisfied with losing in the AFCCG year after year.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-24-2007, 11:46 PM
The fact is, we have the weapons on offense in a QB, a RB a WR (maybe a couple) and at least one TE to be dominant in a quick strike offense. The problem is the O line, which is still a hold over from the older style.

:iagree: :iagree: Thank you !!

Black@Gold Forever32
12-25-2007, 12:14 AM
:iagree: :iagree: Thank you !!

I second what Top Gun said....Very nice post Preacher.......:clap:

Blitzburghpete
12-25-2007, 04:24 AM
Unfortunately Incomplete passes on first and second down mixed in with an obligatory short run for little or no gain/or the "safe" but non productive screen pass on third down leads to the same result=PUNT.

nah 3 yards and a cloud of dust leaves us 4th and 1. in which we get another 3 yards, 1st down, batter and wear the defence down for 10 minutes, then let our defence lick it's chops blitzing the other team as they now feel like they have to pass, to catch up, and they don't ..... 3 yards etc is the way make no mistake.

Preacher
12-25-2007, 04:49 AM
nah 3 yards and a cloud of dust leaves us 4th and 1. in which we get another 3 yards, 1st down, batter and wear the defence down for 10 minutes, then let our defence lick it's chops blitzing the other team as they now feel like they have to pass, to catch up, and they don't ..... 3 yards etc is the way make no mistake.

And that works well until you get to a team that puts the ball in the endzone a couple times on you... then it is time to play catch up... and no way to do it.

Remember our losses to the Pats... and the Bronco's?

Three yards and a cloud of dust turns into three yards and a cloud of mediocrity in a hurry when you enter the playoffs.

No. You build an offensive team that can put the ball in the endzone from anywhere on the field in one play. Then, you stock it with players that can keep a drive alive for 5, 6 minutes... whether it be short passing or a combo of runs and passes... and that includes BREAKING TO THE OUTSIDE ON RUNS.

Steelersfan
12-25-2007, 10:41 AM
And that works well until you get to a team that puts the ball in the endzone a couple times on you... then it is time to play catch up... and no way to do it.

Remember our losses to the Pats... and the Bronco's?

Three yards and a cloud of dust turns into three yards and a cloud of mediocrity in a hurry when you enter the playoffs.

No. You build an offensive team that can put the ball in the endzone from anywhere on the field in one play. Then, you stock it with players that can keep a drive alive for 5, 6 minutes... whether it be short passing or a combo of runs and passes... and that includes BREAKING TO THE OUTSIDE ON RUNS.

Turnovers (and ST's) were why we lost those games. Not the way we ran the ball.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-25-2007, 11:11 AM
Turnovers, special teams, inconsistent running game, missed opportunities in the passing game, it was all the blame..including the running game. The difference between those teams and this years team is the fact that we can score points in a hurry and come back if we need too on offense unlike those years where when we couldn't run effectively or got down because of turnovers we didn't have the fire power to come back...now we do :bigthumb:

BB2W
12-25-2007, 11:35 AM
I like Willie, but I'd trade him if the offer was good enough... :2cents:

Runningbacks come a dime a dozen in this league and there are a number of guys that could be very successful Pittsburgh. There are back-ups on other teams in this league that could have 1,500 yards for the Steelers in this offense.

I don't think Willie is a natural runner... poor vision, and not much wiggle. I get sick of watchinig him run right into people. Some would say it is the offensive line but I bet Najeh would disagree.

Willie is blessed with great speed and we have him for a pretty good price for a starting back. Honestly, I wonder how long Willie would be in the league after leaving Pittsburgh?... My guess is not long, maybe be a third down back somewhere.

Woodson_DownUnder
12-26-2007, 06:01 AM
it all starts with the 5 hogs up front.

Is it quite ironic that Big Ben has been in career best form due to an irregular SOLID line? There has to be something to this theory. When the pocket collapses, there goes Big Ben making the BIG PLAY... if we had a far more solid O-line, Big Ben could still be a better QB but without being more urgent under pressure. Thus becoming more complacent perhaps.... far more less big plays to make? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

But I still think we need another QUALITY WR along with 5 Hogs to save those flippin' sacks..

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I like Willie, but I'd trade him if the offer was good enough... :2cents:

Runningbacks come a dime a dozen in this league and there are a number of guys that could be very successful Pittsburgh. There are back-ups on other teams in this league that could have 1,500 yards for the Steelers in this offense.

I don't think Willie is a natural runner... poor vision, and not much wiggle. I get sick of watchinig him run right into people. Some would say it is the offensive line but I bet Najeh would disagree.

Willie is blessed with great speed and we have him for a pretty good price for a starting back. Honestly, I wonder how long Willie would be in the league after leaving Pittsburgh?... My guess is not long, maybe be a third down back somewhere.

I agree. Speed is great if you have a SOLID O-line to break the holes wide open. That's not happening. I've also noticed Najeh prefers to run outside left, weak side where the space allows him to rumble without needing to hop, shift and stumble. Bruce Arians better identify the new running patterns before Najeh gets hurt. :crossfingers: