PDA

View Full Version : Gospel We Dey



FC FURY
11-29-2007, 05:43 PM
The Steelers Dolphins game wasn’t pretty…The Steelers won; that’s all that matters. The Steelers offensive line played pretty well…A few astute posters pointed out that field conditions limited the pass rush…They would be correct…Colon Starks and Faneca played quality games regardless. Simmons and Mahan struggled. The Wide receivers made plays on the ball…Ben was 18-21; he threw an interception, you have to give the devil his due, Joey Porter made one helluva a play on the ball.

http://www.steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3225

K Train
11-29-2007, 06:26 PM
another great write up FC

Stlrs4Life
11-29-2007, 07:47 PM
Good read. Agree with majority.

Iron City South
11-29-2007, 08:36 PM
Good article with one correction .... you suggested that Ratliff (Bungal CB) might make some plays. Ratliff was cut from the Bungholes on Nov 12th., Tampa immediately picked him up and they ended up cutting him yesterday.


Matchups that concern me:

- Starks on Justin Smith - Starks should do ok because Starks generally can handle power guys like Smith. Starks struggles terribly with the faster, more athletic DE's (i.e. Jason Taylor types). Smith is more of a power guy .. he's good though .... real good .... he will make some plays.

- Deshea Townsend on any Bungal WR over 6'2" ....

- Ty Carter - He's capable of a good game, but he's also prone to being out of positiion on a handful of plays each game. He cannot forget where he is supposed to be on the field or who his man is ..... Palmer will make him pay if he does.

K Train
11-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Good article with one correction .... you suggested that Ratliff (Bungal CB) might make some plays. Ratliff was cut from the Bungholes on Nov 12th., Tampa immediately picked him up and they ended up cutting him yesterday.


Matchups that concern me:

- Starks on Justin Smith - Starks should do ok because Starks generally can handle power guys like Smith. Starks struggles terribly with the faster, more athletic DE's (i.e. Jason Taylor types). Smith is more of a power guy .. he's good though .... real good .... he will make some plays.

- Deshea Townsend on any Bungal WR over 6'2" ....

- Ty Carter - He's capable of a good game, but he's also prone to being out of positiion on a handful of plays each game. He cannot forget where he is supposed to be on the field or who his man is ..... Palmer will make him pay if he does.
townsend has been beast this year and always has a nice game against the bengals, he should so ok, especially with smith head hunting all night

and do you realize how ridiculous your statement about carter is? hes 100% more disciplined in his positions than troy ever could be

Iron City South
11-29-2007, 09:04 PM
townsend has been beast this year and always has a nice game against the bengals, he should so ok, especially with smith head hunting all night

and do you realize how ridiculous your statement about carter is? hes 100% more disciplined in his positions than troy ever could be


Just because Townsend has been having a decenct year doesn't mean he hasn't historically sucked against tall, physical WR's .... I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's actually followed his career to disagree.

Carter isn't a bad Safety, personally I love his intensity and the way he wraps up. However, I think it's more than fair to say he sometimes forgets his assignment or bites on an assignment where he's not supposed to be. Case in point when he gave up that 20+ yard pass in the 4th qtr of last weeks game against Miami. Had field conditions been better, a play like that could have hurt us.

Now, if anyone should realize how rediculous their comments are .... it should be you. Both of these critiques are fair and accurate.

K Train
11-29-2007, 09:08 PM
your seriously worrying about carter when troy is never in position....it just doesnt make sense to me.

Interesting fact....2 time carter has started for troy.....total score is 24-0

Iron City South
11-29-2007, 09:36 PM
Interesting fact....2 time carter has started for troy.....total score is 24-0

Let's dig a little deeper, shall we? Carter played against Seattle minus their main receiving threat (Branch) ... Steelers went up by 2 scores in the 2nd half and the Steelers D stayed in prevent or cover 2 making it relatively easy on them. The second game was on Monday nights mud bowl ..... an anomoly to say the least. Needless to say, the passing games were affected. A game like that should never be used to benchmark the performance of a player.

Like I said, I like Carter ... I just know his habits. He will miss a few of his coverages on Sunday .... you can bet it.

K Train
11-29-2007, 09:44 PM
regardless of carters "habits" even though you apparently know him so well, troys "habits" are way worse for our defense.

Passing games are affected somehow every game, thats a lame excuse, seattle is a pass happy team with or without branch, they were throwing all night and didnt do ****. branch isnt exactly amazing either

also, your saying if the field wasnt bad those coverages he allegedly missed would hurt us...the defense was effected just as much...so again....a sorry backup to your argument

Iron City South
11-29-2007, 09:56 PM
regardless of carters "habits" even though you apparently know him so well, troys "habits" are way worse for our defense.

Although Pola has always played great against the Bungs .... it's hard for me to argue ... Troy has not had a good year. His tackling skills weren't great to begin with and only seem to be getting worse. He's not earning his new paycheck that's for sure.

I'm not a fan of Troy at 190 lbs. and think his refusing to lift weights at this juncture of his career is absolute bullshit. He came on the NFL scene to us from USC playing at 212 and was strong as an ox. He was lifting weights like an animal and his hitting was being compared to the likes of Ronnie Lott. Now he turned into this earthy, green, philosopher who thinks he's a soft spoken deep thinker like Confucius when he speaks. Like I said, absolute bullshit.

I blame 2 people for where Pola is right now ....

1) Lebeau - I think Lebeau over-thunk Troy's role in his new scheme. It's not working. To send Troy into the middle of the line at 190 lbs (wet) to attempt a blitz on a guard or tackle is laughable to watch. Troy looks like a boy amongst men in there getting caught up in their wash.

2) Tomlin and the other Coaches - They need to tell him, "Get your *** in the weight room! We need you playing between 210 to 215 lbs. and we're going to teach you how to wrap-up all over again.

BlitzburghRockCity
11-29-2007, 09:58 PM
Good point about the running game, I know FWP has had big games in the past against the Bengals but they are a high powered offense that can score quickly and Ben likes to take chances so the opportunity for them to pick off a pass will be plentiful so it's important for us to get out early on them and test their defense and not let up till the gun sounds because if we let them hang around it could be disastrous.

K Train
11-29-2007, 10:00 PM
Although Pola has always played great against the Bungs .... it's hard for me to argue ... Troy has not had a good year. His tackling skills weren't great to begin with and only seem to be getting worse. He's not earning his new paycheck that's for sure. I'm not a fan of Troy at 190 lbs. and think his refusing to lift weights at this juncture of his career is absolute bullshiat. He came on the NFL scene from USC playing at 212 and was strong as an ox ... lifting weights and his hitting was being compared to the likes of Ronnie Lott. Now he turned into this earthy, green, philosopher who thinks he's a soft spoken deep thinker like Confucius when he speaks. Like I said, absolute bullshiat.

I blame 2 people for where Pola is right now ....

1) Lebeau - I think Lebeau over-thunk Troy's role in his new scheme. It's not working. To send Troy into the middle of the line to attempt a blitz on a guard or tackle is laughable to watch. Troy looks like a boy amongst men in there getting caught up in their wash.

2) Tomlin and the other Coaches - They need to tell him, "Get your *** in the weight room! We need you playing between 210 to 215 lbs. and we're going to teach you how to wrap-up all over again.
:plus1:

BlitzburghRockCity
11-29-2007, 10:04 PM
This is a learning year for both Tomlin and Lebeau because they are both experimenting with new schemes on offense and defense so I'd venture a guess they have seen Troy's number diminish some this year in the tackling dept and such so I would think adjustments would be made to accommodate his abilities more after they have a chance to view the tapes from this year. I do think you are correct in that their efforts to utilize him so much that they may be actually overthinking his role too much and over analyzing what he should be doing each week.

FC FURY
11-29-2007, 10:52 PM
I just flat out humped the pooch in regards to Ratlif. 2nd error of the season. Good catch

floodcitygirl
11-29-2007, 11:33 PM
Good point about the running game, I know FWP has had big games in the past against the Bengals but they are a high powered offense that can score quickly and Ben likes to take chances so the opportunity for them to pick off a pass will be plentiful so it's important for us to get out early on them and test their defense and not let up till the gun sounds because if we let them hang around it could be disastrous.Just heard a popular sports broadcaster here say that he believes there is one thing and one thing only that the Bengals must do to bring home a win on Sunday......stop Willie Parker.

K Train
11-29-2007, 11:36 PM
something that historically they cant do.

our undefeated home record will go on

SteelerSteve
11-30-2007, 02:33 AM
something that historically they cant do.

our undefeated home record will go on:plus1: This is the Bengals defense we are talking about here, our offense should have no problem putting up points.


I also have noticed that Troy has looked out of sorts a bit this year. Personally I just think they need to "unleash" Troy so to speak, hes a rare type of player that if you try to contain him to much then he cant display all of his natural talent and instincts.

USAFsteelerfan
11-30-2007, 03:19 AM
This is in regards to Iron City South and K Trains talks......First of all do you even know why Troy is never in position? Lebeau has his defense around Troy. There are set plays for him to be out of position. They move him were he can cuase the most damage, not to cover Chad Johnson. Troy is the new type of safety, just like Ed Reed and Bob Sanders. So Iron City South show me from the stats below where he is having a bad year? He has missed some time with injury and he is still consistent in his numbers.

Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2003 PIT 16 38 32 6 4 2.0 1 0 0 0 0
2004 PIT 16 97 74 23 14 1.0 1 0 5 58 1
2005 PIT 16 92 74 18 8 3.0 1 78 2 42 0
2006 PIT 13 77 57 20 8 1.0 1 0 3 51 0
2007 PIT 9 42 33 9 7 0.0 2 13 0 0 0
Career 70 346 270 76 41 7.0 6 0 10 151 1

Also where do you get your info? I was wondering because I haven't seen anywhere that it said Troy was playing at 190LBS.....Espn.com 5'-10" 207LBS, Steelers.com 5'-10" 207Lbs, Msn.com well guess what they said...5'-10" 207 LBS......

Troy isn't my favorite player but I don't hate him either. I think him and Carter bring certain pieces to our defense, however if you are gonna bash him well at least have some facts to do so.

Now if anything needs fixed it is the O-Line. 17 sacks in the last three games...(including the Jets and the Dolphins) There is a major problem there.

BlitzburghRockCity
11-30-2007, 05:55 AM
Just heard a popular sports broadcaster here say that he believes there is one thing and one thing only that the Bengals must do to bring home a win on Sunday......stop Willie Parker.

That's always the priority, or atleast should be, for any team is to take away the run so I'm betting the Bengals will be stacking the line on defense to take away the run and dare Ben to beat them. That's a dangerous gamble though because Ben has proven he can win games with his arm so it's really pick your poison; especially given the Bengals defensive woes :lol:

floodcitygirl
11-30-2007, 08:57 AM
That's always the priority, or atleast should be, for any team is to take away the run so I'm betting the Bengals will be stacking the line on defense to take away the run and dare Ben to beat them. That's a dangerous gamble though because Ben has proven he can win games with his arm so it's really pick your poison; especially given the Bengals defensive woes :lol:A majority of people around Cincy give very little credit to Ben or his abilities. Keep in mind that they compare him to their "god" of a QB. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that if Ben helps to pull off a good play it was just dumb luck. I'm hoping they do go into this game with the attitude that all they need to try to do is stop Willie. Let them overlook Ben. Lets see how that works out for them.....

FC FURY
11-30-2007, 09:30 AM
My view or opinion

Troy Polamula has as much or more physical ability then any safety in the NFL. Laron Landry is on the same level as an athlete.

Troy Polamula maybe the most over rated player in the NFL. Not meant to be blasphemy..Not meant to **** off Troy fans.

I refuse to enter another Troy Polamula debate.

He is a Steeler...He is signed long term.

Onto Troys weight....

Polamalu in middle of training revolution
Monday, August 08, 2005
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

If safety Troy Polamalu ran a National Football League team, he'd cast out traditional weightlifting, make summer practices less physical and banish running tests teams such as the Steelers enforce the first day of training camp.

"I wouldn't have a conditioning test, that's for sure," Polamalu said. "I don't think that you need to be in the best shape of your life on the first day of camp. I think you need to be in the best shape of your life on the opening day of the season. I mean, that's in a month."

He'd get rid of Gatorade, the sports drink that is a major NFL sponsor and can be found in buckets on every team's sideline and throughout training camps.

"I think that's a whole money plot, you know what I mean?" Polamalu said after a recent practice at St. Vincent College. "I don't understand how all that sugar can really help you. I think water's the best, definitely, and I think some water's better than other."

Polamalu is a nonconformist in a conservative sport, where training has advanced in some areas but lags far back where he'd like to see it.

By NFL standards, his training regimen is radical. He does not lift weights and he trains in the offseason under Marv Marinovich, who became infamous as the father, strict dietician and trainer of former Southern California quarterback Todd Marinovich, a 1991 first-round NFL draft bust with a history of drug arrests.

Few can argue, though, with the style of training or the work Polamalu has done with Marv Marinovich. Polamalu made the Pro Bowl in his first year as the Steelers' starting strong safety last season and developed into one of their top playmakers.

"He's been so much on the cutting edge for years," said Polamalu of Marinovich, whom he has trained under the past four years at his small Sports Lab facility in Orange County, Calif. "He's been doing the same thing for 30 or 40 years. People are just now starting to evolve to his training methods. He's been above and beyond when it comes to strength-training coach."

Instead of free weights or machines, Polamalu uses medicine balls, heavy shoes, something called the wobble board and other nontraditional football workouts such as the single-grip hand ball to train year-round, even during the season.

He's quoted on one Web site extolling Marinovich's methods: "People have a hard time believing I could train for football using a heaviest weight of 20 pounds."

Polamalu credits Marinovich's methods for turning him into a Pro Bowl player.

"His philosophy is you can't train slow to get faster. You can't go in there and bench weights to think you're going to get stronger. And, for example in the bench press, never are you going to lift that slow."

Polamalu placed his hands to his chest as if he were bench-pressing.

"Never are you going to be this deep, because if you're this deep in football, you're going to get beat. His whole philosophy is training explosively, training with balance and nervous systems and things like that."

No Steelers player and few in the game can match the burst of Polamalu, who received coach Bill Cowher's blessing to pursue his training routine under the apparent belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

"I think the human body, if you aspire to any regimen and are consistent with it, it'll stand you in good stead," said defensive coordinator LeBeau, who would not be surprised to see the Marinovich method catch on more in the NFL. "Everything has to start somewhere. But people usually reinforce success and Troy's certainly had a lot of success. There's no question he's a supremely conditioned athlete."

Marinovich ordered Polamalu to go home this spring when his weight dropped to 198, from 212-215 last season. He weighs only 203 today but says he'll be back where he's supposed to be by the season. And he expects to play better.
"I dropped maybe five or six interceptions," said Polamalu, who led the team with five (one for a score), tied for second with 97 tackles and had one sack. "They would have been great catches, but if you want to be great you have to make those catches."

LeBeau hopes to use Polamalu's speed, size and burst to blitz more often this season.

"He's very similar to when we had the situation with Carnell [Lake] and Rod [Woodson] -- 200-pound guys who can really, really run. You can send him back as deep as you want and also blitz him, and that's a nice combination for a coordinator."

Maybe some day, Polamalu can convince a team to change the way it trains. He would hire chiropractors and massage therapists to take better care of their players, their investments.

"People are too scared to revolutionize, but that's where you get great people."

Iron City South
11-30-2007, 10:40 AM
This is in regards to Iron City South and K Trains talks......First of all do you even know why Troy is never in position?.


Yes, your long winded answer below is what we were talking about. Bottom line, the scheme in which you described isn't working.


Lebeau has his defense around Troy. There are set plays for him to be out of position. They move him were he can cuase the most damage, not to cover Chad Johnson. Troy is the new type of safety, just like Ed Reed and Bob Sanders.


So Iron City South show me from the stats below where he is having a bad year? He has missed some time with injury and he is still consistent in his numbers.

Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2003 PIT 16 38 32 6 4 2.0 1 0 0 0 0
2004 PIT 16 97 74 23 14 1.0 1 0 5 58 1
2005 PIT 16 92 74 18 8 3.0 1 78 2 42 0
2006 PIT 13 77 57 20 8 1.0 1 0 3 51 0
2007 PIT 9 42 33 9 7 0.0 2 13 0 0 0
Career 70 346 270 76 41 7.0 6 0 10 151 1


I don't have to remind you of the saying, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" do I? Stats are overrated and only tell part of the story. But since you brought them up and elected to take a smart *** tone with me, allow me to use them against your arguement by pointing out that he's down in nearly every column. Please direct your attention to the "Solo", column ... down .... the "Assist" column ... significantly down .... the INT column .... down, he has none yet to speak of. Honestly, for those that have followed Pola's career as a Steeler, all one really has to do is watch his performance each game this year and you will immediately notice that he consistently "whiffs" on tackles that he should be making (especially at his salary!). It's also pretty evident that he's coming in to low and his "wrap-up" technique has diminished. I blame this on his weight. Now that he's significantly lighter, he's trying to get lower or he knows he'll get absolutely trucked.


Also where do you get your info? I was wondering because I haven't seen anywhere that it said Troy was playing at 190LBS.....Espn.com 5'-10" 207LBS, Steelers.com 5'-10" 207Lbs, Msn.com well guess what they said...5'-10" 207 LBS......

With the exception of his yearly performance stats, most of the player profile info is static. ESPN has shown the same player profile for Pola for the past 3 years now. He IS NOT .... 207 lbs. ... not even close. My guess is that he's currently playing around 202 lbs. Aside from the article KC posted above, I'm also looking for an article printed this past summer that he talks about him now being a vegaterian who attibutes his new diet to getting down to below 200lbs and how he feels it has helped his speed. Personally, I just don't see it. He was much better (and stronger) playing between 210-215 lbs.


Troy isn't my favorite player but I don't hate him either. I think him and Carter bring certain pieces to our defense, however if you are gonna bash him well at least have some facts to do so.

Let's be clear, nobody "hates" Troy and nobody wants Troy to succeed more than Steelers fans. The point that was being made in our discussion was he is NOT being used correctly by LeBeau, nor is he living up to to his new HUGE contract .... the largest in Steelers history which made him the highest paid Safety in the league.

Bottom Line: Uncle Dicky's new scheme using TP in various roles to create offensive confusion as described above isn't working as well as he thought.

Now, don't be alarmed, but that uncomfortable feeling you currently have down in your gleutius maximus area are the "FACTS" which were promptly shoved up there by your's truly. :bigthumb:

FC FURY
11-30-2007, 11:59 AM
Lets get Troy and Holmes healthy for the playoffs:tt02:

BlitzburghRockCity
11-30-2007, 12:04 PM
Indeed because both of them gone not only affect our quality of play on the field but also our depth at those positions becomes a huge factor so those 2 have to be healthy for the stretch run.

USAFsteelerfan
11-30-2007, 01:49 PM
Iron City South.....Man I like you!! First let me clear the wave and I know that internet typing my seem like attitude but its not. I was reading your reply however and you said "Now, don't be alarmed, but that uncomfortable feeling you currently have down in your gleutius maximus area are the "FACTS" which were promptly shoved up there by your's truly." now I was looking and you gave me no facts what so ever. When you say "in your opinion" well thats not a fact.

You pointed out the stats well that would have helped your argument out a little if the season was over, but they are through nine games and he is on his way to having the same type of year. So that didn't work out for you to well. Also how do you know his weight? Did you weigh him? You still haven't showed me anything with that. I don't care what he eats, that tells me nothing.

Now I will sit here and give you another chance to "shove facts" my way, because you didn't do it there!

Oh and before we continue this little trash talk ****, I was wondering then in your opinion do you think we need to scrap the defensive plan all togather or utalize another safety for that?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K Train
11-30-2007, 03:21 PM
I like troy, but the whole...."defense is built around him" is garbage, the defense is and will continue to be built around the linebackers....we live or die by them. I understand troy is a phenomenal athlete....he needs to play more disciplined though, stats are ****ing retarded, you could never measure a player like troy by stats....ever. He has always excelled at the LOS and has been decent in coverage, but he needs to be in position more and be there to help out the corners when they need it....something i saw alot from carter and always see from smith (which is his primary job). I cant stand seeing a player as talented as troy over pursue everything and miss tackles in the backfield...that makes me want to go on a baby punching rampage...and its happening way to much. He used to confuse the **** out of offenses, now they just dont focus on him....maybe if he were to just line up and get in position it would blow their minds cause that would be the last thing they would expect.

Iron City South
11-30-2007, 07:24 PM
Iron City South.....Man I like you!! First let me clear the wave and I know that internet typing my seem like attitude but its not. I was reading your reply however and you said "Now, don't be alarmed, but that uncomfortable feeling you currently have down in your gleutius maximus area are the "FACTS" which were promptly shoved up there by your's truly." now I was looking and you gave me no facts what so ever. When you say "in your opinion" well thats not a fact.

You pointed out the stats well that would have helped your argument out a little if the season was over, but they are through nine games and he is on his way to having the same type of year. So that didn't work out for you to well. Also how do you know his weight? Did you weigh him? You still haven't showed me anything with that. I don't care what he eats, that tells me nothing.

Now I will sit here and give you another chance to "shove facts" my way, because you didn't do it there!

Oh and before we continue this little trash talk shiat, I was wondering then in your opinion do you think we need to scrap the defensive plan all togather or utalize another safety for that?


Dude, you just posted stats that were used to "serve" you. They weren't through 9 games either, they were through 11 .... and still glaringly deficient from where he should be at this juncture considering he's the best paid Safety in the league.

Let me reiterate, Pola isn't playing terrible ... he's just not playing at the level you would expect of the highest paid Safety in the league and a man our defense is supposedly built around. I also said I'm not totally sold on stats .... they can be extremely misleading. You have to watch and know what to look for. It doesn't take a Proctologist to know when something smells like ***. Meaning, anyone can see that the Pola experiment isn't working that great. Troy is whiffing on tackles and is out of place on far too many plays.

I'm somewhat in K-Train's camp with regard to what I would recommend. Firstly, you don't build your D around the Safety .... that's just flat out bullshit. Our LB's have always served as the staple of our defense. They are the contol ... the dial if you will ... that turns up or turns down the pass rush and the pass coverage volume depending on what you are asking your defense to do. I think Troy needs to go back to playing a more conventional role. One where his Corners will appreciate knowing where he's going to be on the field and also knowing he'll be there to help them if needed.

USAFsteelerfan
12-01-2007, 06:18 AM
Iron City South,
First I will correct you again if you look at the Stats I posted, the Letter G means games played. Now if you look in the 2007 column it says nine. Which means he has only played nine games this season. Yes I know what week we are in but he has missed sometime. Anyway I will respect your opinion in this matter, because I want new stuff to argue about, I am getting old with this.

Anyway I kinda agree with you guys in the Linebacker aspect. When you think of Pittsburgh you think defense, and when you you think of defense you think of strong, hard core linebackers. Well at least I do. Speaking of that it doesn't seem like we are blitzing our linebackers a whole hell of a lot, but then again I have only seen a few games this year do to the fact that I am in Iraq. Also do you think Tomlin will utalize the 4-3 defense maybe against NE?

Iron City South
12-01-2007, 01:26 PM
Iron City South,
I kinda agree with you guys in the Linebacker aspect. When you think of Pittsburgh you think defense, and when you you think of defense you think of strong, hard core linebackers. Well at least I do. Speaking of that it doesn't seem like we are blitzing our linebackers a whole hell of a lot, but then again I have only seen a few games this year do to the fact that I am in Iraq. Also do you think Tomlin will utalize the 4-3 defense maybe against NE?

The way they've turned Kiesel into the "rover" ...... you might as well say we're playing a 4-3 as our base set with a little Tampa-2 sprinkled in. 80% of the time Keisel is taking on the OT when trying to pressure the QB (a battle that he generally loses). This being the case, I'd rather us just call a spade a spade and say we're a 4-3 team. I would also look to draft a real 4-3 DT and DE rather than keep Kiesel in that role and pretend we're not a 4-3.